Krista,

A lesson from my recent wilderness first aid class is to carry triangular bandages and rolls of adhesive tape. With those two items you can wrap twisted ankles, support sprained wrists, make splints and treat the kinds of injuries you might face on a long trip. Neither is bulky nor expensive.

Andy

I think it is unlikely you could walk 400 miles carrying that pack with a 6 YO kid and a small dog.

You will end up carrying the kid and the dog and the pack.

Even thinking this is an option suggests to me a lack of realistic expectations.

Interesting analysis. Perhaps it's my mushy thinking, but I'm unclear as to your solution regarding the problem at hand.

The way the "problem" has been framed there is no viable solution. There is just no way anyone can walk 400 miles carrying a child and a small dog and a heavy pack containing everything all three of them will need.

Regardless of an individual's fitness level, experience, and/or equipment, there is no way that the task being described can be accomplished. Just cannot happen. No amount of gear or advice can make it do-able either.

That suggests to me that it is time to re-evaluate the supposed problem.

Krista,

Kudos to you for thinking this through and subjecting your plans and preps to this group. I enjoy the periodic mental exercise of these scenarios. But the more I think of them, the more skeptical I become for my own situation because only an armageddon/TEOTWAWKI would require me to have no option other than walking hundreds of miles. If things get that bad, 90% of us are toast -- violence, starvation, disease, heart attacks... we'd be dropping like flies.

Nevertheless, it comforts me to know that I can buy myself and my dog and some friends, perhaps, a few days if things were ever so dire.

In my Mad Max scenario, I'd have my bikes on my SUV (I have a hitch-rack) and bike trailer and a trailer-stroller on top (I have a Yakima Loadwarrior roof basket), and a couple pair of hiking boots in my vehicle. In fact, I always have a pair of hiking boots in my SUV....

If you're serious about this (obviously you are) then I echo the recommendations of others in this thread to get a bike - and a bike trailer/stroller. The trailer in this photo below is rated to hold 100 pounds (Croozer Dog Trailer). I have another version of this trailer that can also function as a stroller and has a luggage rack. Your child and dog could ride in it when they tired. Put a tarp over it and you could keep your things dry.

You can often find on Craigslist used bike trailers for carrying children. That trailer could also carry gear and/or your pup.

My dog pulls this bike (bikejoring) but I cropped her out of the photo. On the day this photo was taken I not only rode my bike but spent a lot of time walking it - very easy to walk this bike-trailer combo holding the handlebar with one hand and my dog leashed to the bike. You can ride and walk with your backpack or lash it to the top of the trailer. That bag on the back of the bike also carries a fair amount and has two panniers that unfold when the sides are unzipped. You could also put panniers up front. I have this mountain bike for the purpose of bikejoring.

For a bug out scenario you might want a "hybrid" bike with smoother tires. Any bike would be a heck of a lot better than walking. Even if you got just 100 miles out of it, that's better than starting out on foot.

Water weighs 8 pounds per gallon. Really would be nice to have the option of putting that in a trailer-stroller.

I have some other gear suggestions I'll list in a subsequent post.

If this were my bug-out bag for walking, these items (and more, of course) would be in it. In fact, many of these items are with me whenever I'm in my car. I also keep a backpack in my car (SUV).

Petzl Zipka Plus 2 (headlamp-wristlamp)
http://www.rei.com/product/829552/petzl-zipka-plus-2-headlamp

Fenix E11 Compact 105 Lumen Flashlight
http://www.amazon.com/Fenix-E11-Compact-...;keywords=fenix

Thermarest closed-cell foam sleeping pad
http://www.amazon.com/Therm--Z-Lite-Slee...ords=thermarest

Fleece Sleeping Bag Liner (if it were winter, I'd lug a real sleeping bag)
http://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/43014?feat=1097-GN2&page=cabin-fleece-sleeping-bag

My favorite Mora (it's a close call, love all my Moras)
http://www.amazon.com/Mora-Sweden-Knives...p;keywords=mora

Walking staff or trekking pole
http://www.rei.com/product/830442/leki-wanderfreund-antishock-walking-staff

Tarp
http://www.rei.com/product/798413/blue-poly-tarp-8-x-6

Titanium mug and/or cookset (worth the splurge, in my opinion)
http://www.rei.com/product/668927/snow-peak-titanium-multi-compact-cookset

Titanium wood stove (I'd start with it, might toss after 50 miles...)
http://www.amazon.com/Vargo-Titanium-Hex...nium+wood+stove

Compass (you can certainly find them much cheaper - but I have this one)
http://www.rei.com/product/787189/suunto-mc-2-pro-compass

Firesteel (and a couple Bic lighters and UCO or REI "Stormproof" matche)s
http://firesteel.com/firesteel-survival-with-scraper-and-lanyard/

Nalgene 32oz water bottles (4 of them)
http://www.rei.com/product/402049/nalgene-wide-mouth-loop-top-round-bottle-32-fl-oz

Leatherman (one of the cheaper, lighter models)
http://www.amazon.com/Leatherman-831207-...ords=leatherman


Odds & Ends: cotton balls-petroleum jelly for firestarter, construction and normal big garbage bags (so useful for many things - including lining your pack and for a rain poncho), moleskine (mini note pad) and pen, paracord 550,

Clothes: Marmot Pre-Cip rain parka, Marmot Dri-Clime jacket, hat, long underwear, gloves

"Last resort is to travel to our destination on foot." is the way the OP stated the situation, I believe...Nothing stipulated about needing to be self-contained from the get go.

Your point is quite valid - walking 400 miles would indeed be quite a saga and an enterprise that most of us, certainly me, (and I am an experienced, practiced hiker) would find daunting. But is it impossible to the extent that it should be rejected out of hand? People have walked comparable distances - consider the case of the Mormon handcart pioneers who walked from Illinois to Utah, or, indeed, the majority of the travelers along the Oregon and Santa Fe trails. Even though they did have wagons, most emigrants typically walked alongside.

It is certainly true that you can't walk self-contained for anything like 400 miles. The question is then, "How do you resupply?" The answer to that question is just a bit complex, but it is worth considering.

I am sure that most of us, including the most avid hikers, cyclists, and runners, if faced with the necessity of a 400 mile journey, would rather do it in a day by car rather than y a slower, more cumbersome means of transport. But that doesn't mean you should never consider how you might accomplish such a feat, and what you would need to accomplish it.

I wonder how far people are walking now in Syria?

I apologies if this has been covered already. Your supplies got a little lost in the "You shouldn't even consider it" sidebar. (I'm not a fan of the "it's impossible" arguement, BYW. You asked for ideas on how to make it work so let's focus on that, shall we? Every problem has a solution, so let's find them!)

I'm thinking about feminine hygene. If you're of the XX construction, you need to make this a priority. Be sure to include these needs in your preps.

*you and your daughter need to be able to clean yourselves daily.
*Water + soap + cloth and/or wipes should be on the list, and enough for a few months at least (your daughter is still young enough not to have to worry about Auntie Flow, but cleanliness is a life-long issue for us, UTI and yeast infections are quite frequent in girls)
*canestin and cranberry pills would be a valuable use of space in your pack for a trek of this length
*reusable pads are an option worth considering once you've got you water supply figured out.
*Tampons without applicators are probably the most pack-friendly
*pack extra underwear for accidents
*throw in some extra garbage bags for laundry and fem product disposal

I think planning for something that is impossible to accomplish is a waste of time. A fit person with a lot of experience walking long distances that has some means of resupply along the way could walk that kind of distance.

No one could do so carrying a dog and a kid and all the gear and supplies they would need.

Thinking about how one might do so is not a terrible exercise as it will become very clear that it is just not something that is reasonable. It is like people who seem to think that retirement planning is about winning the lottery. There are some people who win the lottery, but as a plan for retirement it just plain sucks.

The problem with the Mormon human powered carts is not that it can't be done, but that the people who did it routinely walked long distances already because it was their primary means of transportation. If you are not walking 5 miles or more several times a week on an ongoing basis, pulling the cart that carries a kid and a dog and gear and supplies is not reasonable either.

It is not like you can go buy such a cart anyway. The people who used these kind of carts had a huge advantage over a single person in that they almost always went out in groups. If a cart broke down they had help fixing it. If they needed to go hunting or foraging for food, there were people who were better at that to do it. They had food preservation skills that made it possible to more or less live off the land, although I kind of suspect that like many who went west, a lot of the meat they ate went with them on the hoof.

I sort of like the bike and trailer idea, but it has its own issues. It is a lot more reasonable to bike 400 miles hauling a dog and kid and gear and supplies in a trailer than it is to walk carrying them on your back. because you can make a lot better time on a bike, you might well be able to carry all the supplies you need. Having done some 20+ mile biking when I was much younger, I can attest to the fact that even though I was on nice paved paths the whole way, I was pooped after 20 miles, and pretty sore the next day. No way I was going to do it again until I made 400 miles. And pulling a trailer behind is a LOT more work. Even so, it is a lot more reasonable than the 400 mile hike if the OP is willing to get a sturdy bike and trailer and start doing 10 miles a day with a 100 pound load in the trailer.

The problem is that the OP never said anything about a bike. The OP planned to walk 400 miles, which just is not possible given the constraints she mentioned. She probably could not get 400 yards carrying the dog, kid, and gear on her back, even forgetting the supplies needed for a 400 mile walk.

This thread has morphed into a discussion of the benefits and objectives of disaster planning. This is good.

Any options will have pluses and negatives. Some, given current situations, will be more or less feasible. Some will be superficially easy (hop in the car and drive 400 miles) and others will be extremely difficult (walk the same distance). Walking is worth considering because it requires little gear, although a lot of ability. It might be worthwhile when the roads are clogged or otherwise unavailable.

One might reason, "Well, I certainly can't walk 400 miles today. What needs to change so that I might?" Obviously, one needs to start walking and training. One needs to acquire lightweight gear and the expertise to use it properly. If one puts forward the effort, the walking option becomes more feasible. If one doesn't, hopefully measures will be taken to improve other options (get a really good vehicle, enhance bug in gear, etc).

Getting fit so that long hikes are possible leads to better fitness in general if that is the option taken. From personal experience, I can testify that this can really help. At one point in my life, I was deeply involved in wilderness SAR. This lead to regular distance running - at first about two miles, and later, to training and running marathons on a regular basis. All this made me much more capable in the field and benefited me in many ways not related to SAR.

The best course is to start for your destination with vehicle, but with the means and capability to shift to bicycle or foot if circumstances change. That way you are truly equipped to survive.

Basically, thoughtful planning and consideration of improbable options can lead to entirely new perspectives and capabilities. The glass is either half full or half empty. Just be sure you check before declaring it to be completely empty.

It should be pointed out, discussing heavy walking along the Oregon Trail and the handcart pioneers, that their option was not at all devoid of risk. It took a lot of time (six months or so) and I understand mortality rates ran around 30% - you would have better odds if you enlisted in the Marines for a tour in Afghanistan.