I just handled a Gibbs ( no relation to the famed british maker) survival rifle. These are reworked SMLE rifles cut down much like the jungle carbine ( but without the infamous wandering zero ) nickel plated ( except for sights) and available in either .303 or .308 bore. They even have a survival kit replacing the buttplate cleaning kit! Now we can have rifles, knives and axes with enough matches and fishhooks to bring a smile to Tom Hanks' face <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />. I shot the .303, and it would be my pick. The 215 grain load is a famous canadian stopper of moose, bear and potential southern invaders intent on burning the parliament house again <img src="images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> Personally, I would just find a clean 'smelly. ' There's enough wood on those things to start 3 signal fires and 10 rounds rapid fire is adequate for UFOs in the desert.

Chris:

There was once a saying that compared the Mausers, the 03 Springfields, and the SMLE's which said "the SMLE is a battle rifle".

Do you per chance know what the statements about the Mauser & the 03 Springfield were?

Bountyhunter

The Germans produced the best hunting rifle in the Mauser 98. America produced the finest target rifle with the 03 Springfield and the British the best combat rifle in the SMLE. Having owned and admired all three, I am inclined to agree.

gee chris : i'm impressed, it appers your well read..you must have gone to collage . <img src="images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />...also the term s.m.l.e or 'smely' short for short magazine lee enfield refers to the NO.1MK111 type enfield only.. the NO.4 MK1 OR MK2 of ww2 make are not refered to as a s.m.l.e..by collectors...yea i know i'm nitpicky its just the collector in me.. <img src="images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />..vince g.

yea i know the NO.4 MK2 is a post war rifle.. just my bad typing skills showing up again.. <img src="images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />..vince g.

The only large caliber rifles I have owned were 30-30, and 30 carbine calibers.

I have toyed with the idea of buying a .308 bolt action, and was wondering if there is a comercially made rifle that cocks on closing the bolt with a removable box magazine?

Bountyhunter

hey bountyhunter : how about a surplus rifle..the ishapore NO.1MK3 enfield rifle in 7.62x51 (.308 win.) with a ten round magazine is a great value for your money.. check out your next gun show and gunshop and get one in your hands i think you'll like it . <img src="images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. ..vince g.

Why the cock-on-closing? You mean like the M93 variants? Cock-on-opening has been touted as a superior sequence for, um, about 100 years, give or take... personally, I think claimed advantages either way are hair-splitting when the rifle is actually being USED.

The Indian Enfields in .308 are OK, but they are a "waste" of the potential accuracy of the .308 - I tend to agree with Chris K - the Enfields were designed with the 303 as the cartridge and it's a good pairing of action and cartridge. Anyway, the Enfields do have a 10 round magazine and technically they can be removed, but it was not realy intended to be used a la detachable magazine. And if you used that rifle in 303, I suppose you can still optain surplus stripper clips for REALLY fast magazine re-charging.

If you want to spend about what a starter "custom" rifle costs, get a Steyr Scout Rifle - there are several variations available now and you don't have to mount the scope forward - although I gotta tell you, that concept is pretty darned useful (I've built 3 "scout" rifles for my boys and they really proved the concept for us - it works GREAT). The Steyr Scout is everything you stipulated except cock-on-closing. Or Savage had a much less expensive Scout Rifle (maybe out of production now) - and they have many models of rifles available with detachable magazines (not 10 rd). As does Remington, yada yada yada...

If you really want cock-on-closing I suppose you could get a high-quality M93 variant like Swedish Mausers (M94, M96, M38, M41) and with considerable effort have it re-barreled to .308 (long hot arguements about that chambering - not gonna go into that here) etc, but that is NOT a cheap route, especially if you want telescopic sights and do not want a 'scope forward (like Scout rifle). OTOH, leaving a Swede in the original 6.5mm is a better idea and it's probably a more capable caliber for hunting than .308 (IMHO and with some experience afield with both). Or 7mmx57mm in a M93, if you can find a decent one...

Heck, there are so many GOOD and accurate commercial rifles available in 308 today, why bother to go with something else?

Sorry the reply dragged on a bit - how about posting a prioritized list of features and I bet we can point you in the right direction (if there is one).

HTH,

Tom

I've always thought the cock-on-closing was a superior system. Easier extraction - since you're not trying to simultaneously cock the bolt as you're extracting the spent casing, and easier closing - since you've got better leverage pushing the bolt away from you. I've never understood the supposed 'advantages' of cock-on-opening, beyond the fact that it was used in the Mauser 98, and thereby guaranteed immortality.

Actually, I would think you have more power "pulling" than "pushing". But either way, I think this is mute. The cocking action takes place when you rotate the bolt. Rotating down on close may be a little earier but I don't think it's major.

The answer to this is a K31 straight pull. <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for the reply all!

If I buy, I want new, as it is so hard to judge surplus.

The reason I want a cock-on-close bolt action is the Mill Specs. that were done by the British on contracting for their battle rifles say it works better for smoother repeat loading. This would be an advantage for follow-up shots on a bolt action.

I have found that reloading a bolt action rifle while prone gives me less power in the lifting up of the bolt handle and pulling back than I have when standing. Pushing forward and down does not seem to lose as much power while prone.

I know there are many good hunting cartridges out there, and the 30-06 is a front runner except that I would prefer a short throw bolt. The .308 is in great supply in the US and should be avalilable for some time to come in many different loads.

Bountyhunter

As far as I know, there are no cock-on-closing current rifles. The closest you can come to that is the Ishapore Enfield mentioned previously - the Enfields are cock-on-closing and that one is available in 303 or 308.

All cock-on-closing rifles cock on the forward bolt stroke, not on downward bolt rotation. All cock-on-opening rifles cock on upward bolt rotation. So alternative descriptions might be "cock-on-bolt-push" and "cock-on-bolt-rotation" There is one currently made straight pull rifle that I am aware of and I do not know when it cocks - the previous straight-pull rifles (with one exception) were never safe to shoot - and still are not.

Cock-on-closing is mechanically simpler, FWIW, but you're pretty much out of luck for a new one, I'm afraid.

Tom

Is the one exception the K31? I have never heard of a problem with one.