OK, I'd love to see the firearms thread restarted following this format:

Here's a few weapons that I see as interesting & useful for survival situations:

The AR-7
.22 Caliber

Good things: It's exceedingly light, it's fairly accurate (under 50 yards) and it's got some of the coolest packaging - the whole gun breaks down and packs in it's stock, which floats. It fits in nearly any backpack.

Bad things: Early versions of the gun from charter arms and others have a disturbing flaw that can allow it to go "full auto" on you. Not a good thing when you are conserving ammo. Although the current version from Henry (US Survival Rifle) clears this problem up, like the original, it can't handle hypervelocity ammo like the Stinger or Velocitor.
What would make this gun better: A .17 HMR version might be nice.

The Winchester Model 94
Caliber 30-30

Good things: A time-tested compact lever-action gun (mine was my grandfathers) that reliably fires a big, slow, clumsy bullet that can kill many animals and will slow down many others. 30-30 ammo is widely availible, as are parts for the gun.

Bad things: Not exactly a "lightweight" gun, and the ammo is freakin' heavy to lug around too. Useless for birds and a bit much for very small game you intend to eat.

The Mossberg 500
12 or 20 Gauge, 18" Barrel

Good things: A light, reliable gun, which, like all shotguns, offers a wide range of ammo options from light birdshot to rifled slugs. I find the Mossberg to be a more "intuitive" gun in terms of position of the safety compared to the Remington 870.

Bad Things: It's a little "sloppy" in construction, and the finish on mine was a little rough. Of course, shot shells are big, heavy and all that.

The 94 Winchester in .32 special is a real sleeper. The cartridge was designed when black powder was still mainstream and smokeless was a new product. The slower twist rate has several advantages; lower pressures and retained accuracy in a worn bore. This is especially true for using cast slugs in reduced loads for small game. The .32s will often fetch lower prices vs a comparable .30-30. Commercial ammunition is rediculously overpriced. Even a modest reloading programme such as the LEE system can produce fine ammunition. People think of either fending off large carnivores, dropping small game or big with a survival rifle/ shotgun or combination. Small game may be taken with snares or deadfalls, large game may, or may not be available and rare attacks by aggressive animals ( not all being Lions,Tigers and bears oh my!) are most often our own stupidity.

For those of you that feel a shotgun fits your wants or needs and that you really should carry a slug or two, I am going to let you in on a trick used by some poachers.

First, make sure the shotgun is open choked. When you see a necessity for a slug and have nothing but shot cartridges, take a knife and cut throught the hull at about the midpoint of the shot wad. Load and fire thereby expelling the front end of the shell in an almost intact condition.

By the way, if you do this in the field or are found in the course of normal hunting with shells of this nature, in Wisconsin, you can kiss your gun, your car with all its contents, and serious cash in the form of fines goodby. You also lose hunting privaleges for a number or years.

So make sure you are really in need of an emergency slug before getting out the old knife.

Bountyhunter

hi guys : i truly like my m-6 survival rifle..its in caliber .22 hornet and .410 gauge..the hornet is a hard hitting round..and the rifle can shoot different types of .410 loads ie..shot or lead pumpkinballs..it also has a small magazine in the stock for the rounds..and the weapon can be folded or broke down in two halves to fit in your rucksack etc...the down side is that the .22 hornets cost alot for just 20 rds....vince g.

The .22 Hornet is sadly limited by few commercial loads. There is a reloading trick that will vastly improve accuracy. Substitute pistol primers for the factory rifle primers. The violent ignition of the hot rifle primers is simply not necessary and counterproductive. I learned this trick while getting to fire a modest battery of english rook rifles. There was a fascinating array of small cartridges developed around equally light and elegant rifles.

For the older Remington 870 series (before they put some sort of PC, dangerous key lock in it), you can get replacement safety buttons with extra large heads- a recommended mod. That gives you very quick and natural trigger-finger control of the safety. If the safety is on, and you put your finger on the trigger, you will feel the protruding head of the button as a reminder. It actually works very well.

thanks chris:i shall look into reloading with pistol primers..i guess i got to start saving that spent brass!!. <img src="images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />..vince g.

WARNING!?

The poachers shotgun trick was used in the old days of paper hulls.

I don't know if modern plastic hulls will compress sufficiently in the barrel to work properly.

Bountyhunter

How did I miss this one?

http://www.springfield-armory.com/images/m6scout/M69501Large.jpg

An M6 in a 10" barrel!

Yeah I was also concerned with the price of the Hornets and went with 22LR version. It's fun, cheaper and if I really want the fire power I just use the slug ammo for my .410. But it is a great rifle. I throw it into hull of my boat dissasembled and I forget it is even there. On board storage for ammo is decent but not adequate yet better than nothing. With little preparadness and foresight this could be made into prime survival weapon. Not enough for big game but enough to get you by.

That said obviously 30-06 or 12 gauge would be much better yet they are much more heavier, bulkier and expensive.

Matt

hey martin: i have never seen this weapon before today..it looks strange,neat and compact.. what calibers can you get it in?.. where can i find one?..thanks for the pic..vince g.

hey matt: the cost of .22 hornets..almost 20 dollars plus for a box of twenty rds..yea but what the heck, i wanted the rifle in the origanal caliber which was the hornet and .410..by the way i put a sling swivel on the front and use a m-1carbine sling on mine...works great..also matt let me/us know what kind of ideas and improvement you have for this neat little weapon.. thanks ahead of time.. vince g. <img src="images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

To those interested in modifications to the M6: there is a .410/22 long rifle chamber adapter and bbl insert about 10 inches long that allows the use of .22 short, long, long rifle cartridges in the lower .410 barrel.


Using that idea I had a gunsmith make me an insert for the .410 bbl out of a 9mm sten gun bbl about seven inches long. The gunsmith machined the sten bbl down to allow it it fit the .410 chamber and extend into the bbl. Properly marked so it can be inserted exactly the same way each time it produces a 2-3 inch group at 35 yds and allows the use of hollow point ammo from my regular carry pistol.

Instead of four .410 cartridges you can put eight 9mm rounds in the stock compartments.

Michael R(30carbine)

My ideas were quite simple. I made a sling for it the same way you did. Also I wrapped 3 layers of para cord around the spot where you usually place your second hand. To the sling I attached small pouch with extra rounds. I also have an extra pin with butterfly nut just in case I loose the original one. All this travels disasembled in waterproof pouch wrapped in soft water absorbing cloth. Oh front sights have a small orange dot painted on them.

Matt

hey you guys thanks for the great ideas! matt i shall try putting a small pouch on the stock like you did..i'll try a first aid pouch .. and wow ! michael i shall look into that motified barrel..thanks guys.. <img src="images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />..vince g.

30carbine:

Why a 9mm unless you plan to be in Europe a lot?

It seems a .357 magnum caliber would give you flatter trajectory, more knock down power, greater cartridge versatility, and you could glue a small shell holder to carry more than 4 or eight rounds to the butt piece.

Bountyhunter

This is a neat setup for the M6.

Chris

I like pistols-I have several pistols in different calibers-Employment and the IRS willing, I will probably have more pistols in quantities like I had in my youth.

That being said, I will always want a semi-automatic clip fed .22 caliber rifle for "Emergency Backcountry Use" first and foremost, with a .22 caliber pistol if possible. If the choice for second gun was an M6, or a Marlin 24, either one would be chosen over a pistol.

But that's me folks.

Bountyhunter

The M6 rear peepsite can be carefully enlarged for a faster site picture. This is the so called 'ghostsite' best illustrated by removing the target reticle from a classic Lyman or Redfield peep and using the threaded mount. The .22 Hornet can be reamed out to the improved K Hornet. This is a sharper shoulder with a modest velocity increase. The velocity means little in this mild cartridge. What you get is increased shell life for reloading. The stock is like a bare Christmas tree waiting for ornaments. My M6 had a small homemade ULU knife, firesteel and the mentioned paracord wrapped forend.

Bountyhunter:

Simple expediency was the choice for the 9mm bbl; it came about out of finding a surplus sten bbl lying around the gun shop and it seemed like an afternoon project as it was already rifled and chambered and since there are always several hundred rounds of 9mm rattling around my car trunk. I got used to the 9mm in Vietnam and still like my Browning Hi-Power. Tendency to go with what you're good at and not have to carry another ammo mix. :-)
30carbine

chris: thanks for the link of great info bro..cool tool man ! i like some of the ideas..vince g. <img src="images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

My survival weapon of choice would be a Thompson G2 Contender, hands down.... Period...

Its an extremely versatile, and VERY accurate weapon. Simply change the barrel to change the caliber your hand or shoulder can tolerate. Specifications, you ask? 3.5 lb weight for 12 in barrel models, overall length 15.5 in. It has an adjustable trigger, and you can use centerfire, AND rimfire barrels on the same frame. Outstanding sights, and is drilled and tapped for scope sights.

Caliber selection ranges from the sublime, to the insane.. The " slightly better than a pellet gun" 22 short for the taking of rabbits and sparrows, a .45 acp/ .410 combo( the .410 being the most useless/ineffective shotgun shell ever invented in my opinion) , to downright Diabolical, Pantella sized, African "Big Five" stopping calibers are all available for your shooting/ shoulder pleasure... And all have been used globally , with proven results. ( do a web search )

I personally could care less about ammuntion weight.. This is my survival we're talking about...Meaning: I will gleefully carry 10 lbs of cartridges , plus another 10 on top of that... As far as weight goes, in a true wilderness survival situation ammunition ranks right up there with water as far as i'm concerned.

just my 2 $

I don't know how big the sparrows are where you come from, but up here in Wisconsin, by the time you clean them, you have used up more energy than their meat will provide.

Bountyhunter

Sorry folks, I meant to say a Savage 24 .22/20 gauge combo.

Bountyhunter

I was looking for this link but I had it saved at work. This is where I got most of my ideas from.

Matt

Not that big...

But very tasty, and quite abundant..

Now as far as finches are concerned I would agree.. Used as a live fising bait for bass, they can produce some real lunkers...

Err.. FISHING bait that is......

( this technique is only recommended in an actual survival situation...)

According to the Springfield armory site:
http://www.springfield-armory.com/prod-m6-m6rifles-carbine.shtml

it's the same as the rifle - .22lr .410 or .22 hornet/.410 and .45

they are all under $200 suggested price