british newspapers are reporting we've got him surrounded

where are you seeing this???

http://www.sundaytelegraph.news.com.au/story/0,9353,8752173-28778,00.html

I heard Nothing about this on the Network News this Evening. I had made a Point of trying to Catch it on the News, after reading the Post. Not a Thing there.

Also I'd like to Add, -"We Do Not Want to be Laden, with Osama Bin Laden!"

In Any Event, Let's Keep Up the Good Work, and Come to Get him Now / Soon / or in the Future. [color:"black"] [/color] [email] ScottRezaLogan[/email]

I've just heard an Initial Report on the Evening News, that Osama's Right Hand Man, al Zawahiri, is Reportedly Surrounded by the Pakistanis. On the Pakistani Side of the Border. Watch and Listen Tonite for more. [color:"black"] [/color] [email]ScottRezaLogan[/email]

I have a $10 bet with a co-worker that bin Laden won't be found within the next two years, as I'm 110% convinced the man is busy pushing up daisies back at Tora Bora. If we want bin Laden, we'll need a lot of pick axes and shovels to find him.

it could be that the first report was really rumor about an al-aqueda higher up was surrounded it has been ongoing operation that the media finally got word of

I Think there is at least a 50-50 Chance, -that except for perhaps Spending some Time in Caves and Other Underground Fortifications, -that he is Still Above Ground!

Simply None of us Know, One Way or the Other, for Sure.

There's also a Good Chance that he was Gotten Back at Tora Bora. Andor his Kidney Problem Got to him, Especially Out There in the Sticks. Makes for at Least a 50 % Chance there in your Favor as well.

But Neither Nor Any of Us Really 100 % Knows, for Sure! And I Know you Weren't Claiming that!

I Too Feel a Reasonable Enuf Possibility that we've Already Got him. "Reasonably" and "Possibility" are the Key Words there!

But I myself Lean to a Greater Chance and Possibility that we Yet Have Not!

This is Not a Time to be Talking About *Not* Being a "Doubting Thomas". Nor is it a Time to be Giving a Benefit of any Question or Doubt!, to Osama's Fate.

It's rather a Time and Matter of, "I'll Believe it When I See it!"

We had something called a Body Count, back in Vietnam, -We Didn't just Take Things that could Really Come Back and Bite U.S., -on Faith!

We Thot we Got Chemical Ali Too!, a Year Ago in Iraq. -That he was Suppossedly Pushing Up Southern Iraqi Daisys! But Guess Hoo Turned Up Alive!, a Few Months or so Later?! Yes, at least we Still Got him, as a Captive. But we Weren't so Automatically Right as we Thot we were!

Just like that Gorilla that Escaped and Mauled someone(s) the Other Day.

(I Know, Man is Usually One Way or Another Behind Many Animal Attacks, as I've Read in Past Posts and Threads. But This is Not my Immeadiate Point here.)

We Cannot just Always Trust, that Such a Gorilla will be Benign!

The President's said as Much in Reference to saadam. To *Not* just Put a Benefit of the Doubt sort of Faith!, in One with his sort of Characteristics and Track Record! Who also, BTW, was Not Pushing Up Daisys, and was Caught. (I Don't Know that you also Placed Bets on saadam!)

Many Gorillas are Benign. One that Got Out Among the Crowd at our Zoo, Not too Long Ago, was Benign. Though an Elephant here also Recently Attacked and Crushed it's Keeper.

But we Know saadam and Company, and osama / al qaida and Company, are Not Benign! Are they Dead or Alive, We Simply Do Not Know! (concerning one). As to the Question of, -Are they Benign, or Most Definitely *Not* Benign?!, -We Do Know the Answer to be a NO on that!, as to the Both of Them!

I'm Sure that Irwin Guy Doesn't just Benignly Trust his Beloved Crocs! (Not even when He Judiciously Had His Tot Near!, -The Guy Knows What He's Doing!) Nor Shud we Bank that Osama's been Gotten so!, just because we Think it Rather Likely that he's been Gotten!

Just some of my Thots. I'm Not Downing your's, -They are a Reasonable Possibility too. Though I may Well Differ with your's. Yes he May Well have Been "Tora Boraed!" And Then Again he Just as Well May have Not!

But it's at least as Reasonably Possible, that as Lawman La Boeuf (Glen Campbell) said in True Grit, -"I Ain't Dead Yet!", -It's just as Possible that Osama Too Isn't Dead Yet! I Personally Put a Greater Lean on that Possibility and View.

I Wouldn't Want to Bet my Butt or Life on It's Possibly Not being so! -Of Giving A Benefit of the Doubt or of the Uncertainty So! When we, After All, -Really Don't Know One Way or the Other For Sure!

Just Like as with our Campfires! They're *Not* Out!, -Till They're Dead Out! [color:"black"] [/color] [email]indoorsman[/email]

Several Long Tunnels have now been Discovered at the Site. One Over a Mile Long. Previously Totally Unknown by U.S.! But No Surprise either.

I Strongly Feel that Someone or Something was being Hidden!, and Fought in Pitched Battle to Stall / Defend. Someone andor Something Quite Likely Escaped thru those Tunnels by Now! I Think at least some of these may be Cross Border as well.

A Recent Warning of their's Concerns me as well, Where they speak of being 90 % of the Way Complete towards Something Big on U.S.! There may be Something to it. Be Prepared and Ready!

We Shud Always be so in Any Event, Since their First such Attempt 2 1/2 years ago.

Something may Happen or it May Not, -but I Don't Like the Gut Sense I Get, Nor some of the Signs! I Hate to Have to Say This!

They've also Recently Toppled a Western Government, in the Sense of Considerably Influencing the Outcome towards their Direction. They Actually Have! In Response to a Terrorist Attack, -Spain Ironically Handed them One!! Running a Wrong Way Down the Track! They're Encouraged and Emboldened! This is one of the Disturbing Signs I speak of.

If any such shud at any Time Come to Pass, -It will Have a Bearing on our Preparedness. So Continue to be Ready! [color:"black"] [/color] [email]ScottRezaLogan[/email]

No government was toppled in Spain. The people voted. I don't know if the two parties mirror the old Nationalist and PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER. factions of 1936, but I haven't seen any Condor Legion volunteers or American expatriate writers in Guernica. People in ethnic garb and kalashnikovs make good copy: Men in suits less so. What was it Pogo said? " We have met the enemy and he is us." Older conflicts at least had a certain clarity in their evil.

I had mentioned this in the Context, that they had Influenced the Result More towards their Direction and Favor, -and certainly Not an Actual Coup Per Se!

Qaida and it's Like Saw Spain as a Ripe, Pushover Target of the Moment. Like Weakly Attached Ripe Fruit on a Tree, that Falls at the Slightest Breeze or Touch! Or as Punk and Other Fungus Riven Wood and Branches on a Tree!

It wasn't a Pure Accident or Coincidence, in Timing, -That their Action Occurred so Close to! / Just Before, a Crucial Election!

In Addition to the Two or Three Astonishing Numerical Coincidences mentioned earlier in the Madrid Thread! ( Exactly 2 1/2 Years After 9-11, On the 11th of Another Month, and that it Occurred Exactly or Near Exactly 911 Days After 9-11 !!! ), It also Neatly Dovetailed with such an Auspicious Election Influencing Oppurtunity!

Whether by Happenstance Accident, or Intended Design, -It's had the Same Result.

And I Think the Accidental Route is Rather Unlikely. Qaida and Co. Saw this Plum Oppurtunity Coming Up!, - X Amount of Time Ago. This is probably Tilted to the Longer End, rather than the Shorter. It's a Weaker Point in our Overall Chain! If Someone Wants to Break such a Chain, -Thats where you Lay Down your Ax!

However they Did It, -They Did It! Aznar and Co. is Out!, and a More Retreatist Government is In!

They Knew which Spanish Buttons to Push! And just How and When, to Do So!

The People Voted, but in their Majority, -They Voted Wrong! It is Democracy's Voice, -Yes! But it was a Skillfully Coaxed and Coached Result, -All the Same! Talk About Foreign Influence and Interference in an Election!

In the Sense of How we can be our Own Greatest Enemy!, It's in our Appeasingly Weakening Ourselves! And Otherwise Dropping our Alert, Otherwise On Guard Ball! Which is Only Imperatively and Incumbently Behooved of Us (U.S.), in These New Circumstances and Times! Hate to Have to say it, But Spain is it's Own Worst Enemy in that Regard.

And we Do Have Another Enemy as Well, -Besides just Ourselves, -and a Quite Black and White One at That! Two Years and the Like Ago, -Hello!? Two Weeks Ago now Across the Atlantic, -Hello once again! "Osama, Qaida, and Co." Do Pretty Much "Black and White the Matter Up"!, -in their Own now Longstanding Actions and Pronouncements!

While it is Possible to Miscalculate and be One's Own Worst Enemy on the Hawkish Side of Things Too!, -An Appeasing Weakness is Far More Likely to Do So!, here in the Pretty Softy Pofty, "Peace At Any Price", West!

As I said in the Lead Up to the Iraqi War of a Year Ago, -"Be neither Trigger Happy nor Gun Shy!"

The Latest Mideast Developments, are also Not a Good or Encouraging Sign!

As to Preparedness Relevance in This, -Get and Be Ready! This Matter's Moved and Continues to Move at least a Good Few Notches Up!, on our All Round, "Preparedness and Liklihood" sorts of "Radar Screens"!

I Do Realistically and Reasonably Think that at least Partial TEOT. Times are Sooner or Later Coming Up! I Could be somewhat Wrong in This, -but Given Only Continueing Developments, -I Rather Doubt That!

So Things like Smoke Hoods, at least Basic Radiation Protection, Knowing Which Way the Winds are Blowing on an Attack Day, -Along with Bug Out Plans for Getting Out of Town! (On Foot if Need Be). -These Sorts of Things!, Shud now Start Entering More into our All Round Considerations.

This is Not "Survivalist Oversensitivity". But Rather I'm Afraid, a Coalescing, Congealing, Continuing Reality!

Keep the Old Friends of More Standard Survival Preparedness! But Make / Get Acquainted with these Newer Ones!, as Well!

As a Gruff, Street Smart Italian Gal often enuf said back in my Grade School Days, "(Please Kindly) "Get Used to It!" Only She Didn't say "Please" or "Kindly"! Wheras I Gladly Do. Either Way, It's Core Kernel Truth Remains! Of Generally and Basically Getting Used to It!

I Think such Possibilities may have Moved Up a Few Heads on the Totem Pole! -If perhaps still Not Up near the Top.

Prepare and Act Accordingly! Get and Be Ready!

Thanks for your Views and Input, Chris. Though I Honestly Have to Differ with Much of them, for the Reasons I've said.

Now on your Mentioming of the Writers, Artists, Intellectuals, and Others Who Set Out to Influence Spain, in their Own Way, in their Civil War, -of Which I've Forgotten to so far Mention.

On that, -I Know that Both Many Rightists and Leftists from Abroad, have Rallied to Spain's Side, in that Spanish Civil War. To their Respective, Opposing Sides, of course. These Too were Outside Influencing or Assistance Attempts. Both the Soviet Union, nazi Germany, and PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER. Italy were among such, as well. While I Don't Like Caeteno Portuguese, Nor Battista Cuban type PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER.! (And certainly Not Castro Style Commi-PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER.!), Broadly Speaking, -I would Take Rightest Assistance or Influence to the 30s Spaniards, over that to Spain's Leftists of the Day, Anyday! But a Foreign Influencing Attempt, -It certainly in Many Ways is! I would Agree with you there on that!

[color:"black"] [/color] [email]Chris Kavanaugh[/email]

AFAIK, most observers of spanish political life, said the previous majority has lost the elections, mainly because the government lied about the origin of the bombings, continuing to claim they were ETA attacks, even when the spanish police had evidence it was not the case.
It seems the fact the government lied so obviously, had reversed vote's intention of enough people to change the elections results.

First, Thanks for your Observation that you Report / View as you may Have.

Lies about ETA? Maybe, just Maybe so. But I generally Don't Think that the Aznar Government would just Outright Lie like that. Maybe, but I Don't Think so. I Think they are a Better, More Self Respecting Group, than that!

I Hasten to Add that I'm Not all that Knowledgeable on Spanish Public Affairs or Politics. But I have some Very Basic Familiarity there.

Azner and Co. could Genuinely have Suspected the Basques / ETA., There in those Initial Moments and Days.

The Basque Separatists only have at least a Decades Long Track Record of Independence Aspirations, -Certainly Not All Terroristic. But Terrorism and Other Violence has Long Been a Large Player in their Affairs as well!

I'm remaining Neutral on Both Basque Aspirations for Independence, and Greater Spain's Wish that they Remain a Part of Spain, -here.

But the Basque Area has Long been a Source of Major Terrorism, and Thruout Spain, -Not Only in the Basque Region Itself.

It is Only Reasonable and Natural, to Suspect Basque Involvement.

I Think Al Qaida Suspicions also may have come into Play, Quite Early too. And I Think the Aznar Government may well have said Such, too.

And I Think that Many to Most Mainstream Spanish Aren't exactly Too Thrilled or Pleased with their Basque Minority. Rightly andor Wrongly. Fairly or Unfairly. But Given their Long Years of Real Terrorism, Very Understandably as well. I Find it Rather Hard to Believe, that Much of the General Spanish Population, -Would Start Rallying to the Basque Side!, so to speak. In Fact, Many of They, would be the First to Point a Suspecting Finger of Blame, upon the Basques! This Well may have Happened.

Had People Automatically just Jumped to an Al Qaida Conclusion!, -I can Hear it Now! -"Don't be so Rash!",-"Basque and ETA Terrorism is Only so Well Known!, -Why are you Automatically Jumping to an Al Qaida Conclusion?!"

And I've Heard that in the Days just Prior to the Madrid Attacks, -Polls Showed Aznar Sitting on a Comfortable Lead! It's Not like a Spanish Majority was Prior Displeased with him, Enough to Want to Boot him Out! (With the Great Spanish Populace's Anti Iraqi War Involvement, of Views, Notwithstanding.)

Sure, the Al Qaida Attack could Bring in the "ETA Lie Angle", as you Speak of. An Angle which Didn't Exist Before. It could also Bring in, the Larger, More Pure Emotional Angles of which I'll be speaking of. And it Has! Whether or Not it may also have Brought your "ETA Angles", into Play as well.

With Either or Both, -It was Enough to Tilt the Balance!, and Put Aznar and Co. Out!

I myself Believe that Al Qaida and Co., -Intentionally Tipped and Tilted that Balance!

Spain Unwisely and Emotionally Played Into their Hands!!!

True, it's Possible that some may have Yielded to Taking Advantage of the Oppurtunity, -to Try to Pin a Blame on ETA. Irregardless of any Actual Truism or Non-Truism of such there. And to Hopefully "Make it Stick"! These Things sometimes Do Happen in the World of People and Public Affairs. Such an Attempt May or May Not have Happened, on the Part of Some.

Azner or Not?, -I Honestly Don't Know. But I Don't Think so. I Do Think that he is Better than that!

Given What Spain as a Nation had just Experienced, I Think General Terrorism Concerns, -and the Connection that Much of it's Public Perceived with Spanish Iraqi / Coalition Involvement, and of the Staunch Aznar Support for Such, -I Think This Played a Far Larger Deciding Role!, in the Election Results. Than Suggestions or Suspicions concerning the Basques. Or of Aznar Having Actually or Supposedly Lied About it! I Think there may well Not have been All that many Feelings relating to Real or Supposed "Aznar Lies" here.

Any Way that it Actually *Does* Come Down, to Have so Occurred with the Electorate, -It was Certainly an Emotional Decision! An Emotionally Influenced Decision!

At Times like These, and With Matters of These Sorts, -Emotional Decisions are something of a Double Edged Sword!

The Emotion is of course Very Understandable. And Events such as These, -Do Crystallize Things into a Focus!, that People Otherwise Wouldn't so Readily Come By! If Even at All!

But it's also just That!, an Emotional Decision, -Often a Purely Emotional Decision!, of the Moment! Fraught with All of Pure or High Emotionalism's Inaccuracies, Impressions, One Sidedness, Momentary Snap Judgements, and the Like!

Spain Made an Emotional Decision! Understandable as It Is! With All of These Double Edged Pros and Cons of Emotionally Decideing So, that I speak of!

Whether This was X Amount of a Belief by Many that "Aznar Lied" concerning the ETA, -Or Whether it was Purely / Far More over the Entire Experience that Spain had just Had, -It was an Emotional sort of Choice and Decision! At least Very Much and Heavily so!

Now in Addition to this, Or Perhaps as Part of This, -The Impression that you Report, that Aznar and Co., has either Actually or Apparently Lied about ETA Involvement? -This could Very Well Figure in too. But even if so, This Occurred against the Backdrop of a Very Understandable Emotional Decision, -and was also Such a Decision in Itself!

You of course are in Europe, and are Just Above the Iberian Area. You are Far Nearer to the Spanish Scene than I. I'm Sure that you've Heard from Many More On Scene Spanish Observers than have I. You've Reported What you've Generally Heard, in your Post.

But These as I have mentioned, are the Impressions as I Get.

Whether the Spanish Decision was Actually or Apparently "Aznar Lie Sourced" or Not,-

It was Still an at Least Highly Emotionally Entered Into Decision!

And it was Still the Exact Wrong Thing!, for Spain and the Spanish to be Doing! -Vis a Vis Their's and Today's Terrorism Threat and Challenge!

Again, We Should Make the Appropriate and Accurate Observations and Assessments, -and Be Preparedness Ready! For Whatever may Reasonably Enough someday Come Down such a "Terrorist Pike"!
[color:"black"] [/color] [email]frenchy[/email]

Two New Developments Here. The First;-

It Appears that Zawahiri has now Made a Taped Message, -towards Showing the World that he's Still Around, and Hasn't Been Gotten / or has Escaped. This Says or Suggests Nothing, about any Contention that he Supposedly Wasn't even there! If Thats a Suggestion being Floated by his Message. For it's Come a Good Several Days or More *After* the Seige has Been Over! If One's Not There, and Wants to Publicly State so!, -Then Back Then is the Time!, -Not Later or Now! To Tell America and the World so!

Why Not a Taped Message *While* the Pakistani Attack was Going On? *If* his Message or Suggestion is that he Wasn't Even There!?

His Only Doing such a Taping Now, would seem to More Strongly Indicate or Suggest, -That Indeed he Was There!

But then Evidently Escaped Away, Via the Newly Discovered Tunnels, andor Other Terrain / Darkness Escape Oppurtunities.

The Second;-

We are Correct to Now Be On the Watch!, -that They Don't Try and Apply What they Emboldingly Learned at Madrid!,- (Effective or Intentional Government Toppling or Tilting, -to Their Way!), -to U.S.! / to Others!

(The North Viets used to Do Such, at Both the Paris Peace Talks, and on the Indochinese Battlefield. We as a General American Public, Sometimes Fell for It !!!) Fall Not For any Such Again!

And *if* Bin Laden is now Pushing Up Daisies back at Tora Bora, as Someone Thinks Quite Likely in an earlier Post, -Then Whats that say for Zawahiri?! If Laden's been Tora Boraed, -Then Zawahiri's in All Vast Liklihood!, -Now and for a While, -Their # One in Command! -And as Brainy and Dangerous as they say he is!,.....He!, -rather than Laden, May be the One Calling Their Overall Shots!

Laden's Voice also has Appeared on Tape, Numerous Times now!, -*Since* Tora Bora! I Won't Bet or Trust my Life or Safety on any *Possibility* that he Might have been Tora Boraed! [color:"black"] [/color] [email]ScottRezaLogan[/email]

Watching the Evening (Network) News this Evening, -I was a Bit Startled, yet Simultaneously Un-Surprised!, to Hear What I Heard! (NBC Nightly News.)

I Came in somewhere in the Middle of the Report, Still in Time to Hear the Following.

It Concerns Another AQ Tape or Document, just recently Released or Found.

Which *Confirms* I'm Afraid!, -What I've earlier said in this Thread, on their Successfully Toppling and Influencing a Western Government,-Namely Spain.

This Communication of Theirs thats spoken of in the Report, -*Says So Itself!*

It Directly Says, -That They of Al Qaida *Were* Successfully Able to Topple a Western Government! *And* to Successfully Influence Such a One to Pull Out of Iraq!

Don't Just Take my Word for It!, -*They Have Just Said as Much Themselves!*

Also, about 10 Days Ago, -in which I Posted another, earlier Update in this Thread, -I had Heard Another Disturbing Report!

In a Local Restaurant, the TV was on Fox or CNN. A Report was on from Someone in Pakistan, -Who Claimed that AQ Definitly *Has* Some of the Missing Suitcase Nuclear Bombs! Now the Report and Claim May or May Not be True, -But it is Certainly Quite Reasonably Likely! I Wouldn't Want to just Give it the Benefit of Not Knowing or the Doubt! It Sent a Clammily Disturbing Chill thru me! I Held Back, but am Making an Update Mention now.

Osama and Al Qaida *Have* Claimed in the Past that They've Got Some. And This *may* have been More than just Bravado Talk.

Now even if They Have Some, -It Takes Real Technical Know How to Know How to Successfully Set One Off! Granted! It'd Likely Take Them some Time to Come Upon this Expertise. But if They can Acquire Russian Nukes, -Then They Can Acquire Rushan or Other Expertise!

What I've earlier Concernedly said, about Their Recent Tape Saying that They are " 90 % Complete!" Towards their "Destruction of America!", -Can Have a Tie In here! A Reasonably Possible, Perhaps even Likely, -Kind of 2 Plus 2 = 4 !, and "Connect the Dots"!

*If* Al Qaida and Co. Has any of These!, -You Can be Sure that They *Are* Going to Someday *Use* Them! They Will so Use Them on Somebody! We *Are* One of Their Somebodys! One of Their Chief Somebodys! Any of U.S. Can Become One of the Next Victims of Terrorist Misfortune! It Behooves Us Greatly to Prepare!, and Be Aware!

Both of These Disturbing Developments of which I Speak, -Plus the Recent Fallujah Atrocities, Are Quite Undeniable Disturbing Signs! There's a Lot of Talk Nowadays of Bush and Co. Suppossedly Not Having Picked Up 9-11 Signs!, -There's some Really Disturbing Signs Going On Elsewhere and Right Now!, -That People Aren't Picking Up On! Or Much Too Littledly So!

When we Sleep and Forget! And When we Start Overly Carping at Ourselves!, At Some Expense of Keeping our Eyes on our Sworn Enemy Ball from Without! -That's When Their Likes are Even More Emboldened and Likely to Strike! And We Will Have some Undeniable and Unavoidable Shame!, Should such Happen! "Fool me Once, Shame on You! - Fool me Twice, Shame on Me!" We'll be Talking Real Loud Again, About "Never Forgetting!", But I Seriously Once Again Wonder How Long we're Going to Remember!

On Survival Relevance, -This is Only Very Relevant! I Suggest that People Move These Areas of Preparedness Up a Few Notches! Be it Days, Weeks, Months, or Several Years!, -I Quite Reasonably Think that Something Large is Quite Likely to Again Happen!

It Wasn't Just me whose Recently Ventured What They Very Well may have had Behind their Recent Madrid Attacks.

*They Have Just Come Out and Said So Themselves!*
[color:"black"] [/color] [email]ScottRezaLogan[/email]

I Want to Acknowledge This Publicly. There are Places, Especially within my Second Half, Where I Repeat Things like "Emotional Decision" a Few More Times than I Really Shud Have!

My First Half or More, -was Actually Little to None Actually Bad! But Within my Second Half, -There are Areas that my Writing certainly Shud Have Been Better!

There was also a "Composition Box Transposition" Involved! That's When you Insert some Extra Lines, Paragraphs, Etc, During One's Review Process. Sometimes you then Forget! And Continue Typing Things, -Only Now these Further Ones are Out of Place!

It Analogizes to a Book Proceeding;- Chapter 1, 2, 3, 4, -Then 8, 9, 10, 11, -(The Unintended Insertees!), -Then you Catch Yourself!, and at some Point Do your Chapters 5, 6, 7, - , 12, 13, and 14!

This also Happened to me on 2 or 3 Earlier Posts. But I Literally Retyped the Misplaced Paragraphs in their Proper Places, -During my Revision. Then Backspaced the Misplaced Ones Out!

This can Happen if you Type and Post when Sleepy, Tired, Etc! This One was Such a One.

The "Emotional Decision Ones", were at Least Partly Misplaced so!

I Looked it Over. In This Case, -Rather than literally Retype it, -I "Tweak Corrected" It! Judging it Doable So. It was a Case where such "Tweak Repair" could be Done.

Perhaps if it were Not Accidentally Misplaced, -The Word or Phrase "Emotional Decision" Wouldn't Appear as Repetitive! Theres Another Area or Two where Much the Same has Occurred.

If there's a Way to Select, Drag, Etc within a Composition Box, -I'm Not Totally Up On or Aware of it yet! That of course would be a Better Way to Correct such Accidental Misplacements! Though I'm now Substantially Out of Computer and Net Newbieland, -There are Still some Areas and Ways that I am yet in it!

Also, in my Editing, -I Added a Mention and Regret, to the Member that I was Replying to, -Concerning my Length. "...Sorry that This has Worked Out to be One of my Longer Ones!,....", I Wrote. And to Give a Heads Up on It as well.

But Due to the Same Sleepiness, Fatigue, or Whatever, -I Evidently Missed a Step, in Completing that Edit! I Did Type That!, and Added it in an Edit! It was Within the Edit Period. But I Do Not See It in my Final Piece! The Final "Review your Post" Before Submitting, -is What I Must of Sleepily Missed!

So This is to Now Let you Know, That I've Felt and Said This! It was Only Fair to Let the One I was Replying to, So Know! I Worked on That, -But it Sleepily Got Away from me!

Now Back to an Earlier Mentioned Mistake. I Only Became More Aware of some of the Second Part's Repititions, Later On.

The "Tweak Patch", I of course was Aware of. And Felt it to be All Right! Which I may well Still Feel! These Misplaced Sections Actually Didn't Work Out that Bad!, in This Case, -After "Tweak Patching"!

So Those Three Main Things as I've just Mentioned! Are Why my Reply to Frenchy Could Have Been Better! As All Round Writing Styles and Such Go!

I've Gotten Much Much Better in Writing, Across my Board! I'm Essentially as I Should Be. But of course There's Room for Remaining Improvement! This was Something of a Blip! And There was Certainly Room for Improvement on This Particular Blip!

So All my Due Notifying, Regrets, and Apology to Frenchy on That! And While Not Earth-Shaking or Anything!, -I would Say that This Due!, is More than just a Few!

My Content, Spirit, and Substance I Stand Entirely By! But Some of my Second Half or So's Writing Style, -Certainly Could Have and Should Have Been Better!
[color:"black"] [/color] [email]ScottRezaLogan[/email]

This'll be a Short One. (Except for a Later Edit, in Which 2 or 3 Further Thoughts / Developments are Addressed)

Bomb(s) were Found Under a Railroad which Carries the Spanish Bullet Train.

And

Several Al Qaida Types in Spain just Blew Themselves Up!, as Authorities "Came to their Door"!

Signs and Indications Continue Only to be Evident!

Keep Abreast!, And Be Ready to Be Ready!

I'm Not Automatically saying that Something Further *Will* Happen from Such Likes! But it Quite Well Enough May!

Three Further Things have Since Occurred to me, which I'm now Adding in an Edit.

One's that there are the Four American Civilians (Former Military Yes,-but in a Civilian Contractor Role now) who were Slain and Undignified, Abused, and Etc. as They Were.

This is Another Development, Another Bad Sign as I speak of.

The Peace Preferring Crowd may Cite this as a Reason to Bug Out.

But that is Precisely What Not to Do!, That is Precisely What our Trouble Raising, Sworn Enemies, -Are Trying to Egg U.S. on to Do! They're Trying to Ratchet Up the "Go Home" Pressure a Good Bit! They See a Tendancy for Weakness and Irresolution on our Part Here! Frustrated that it Hasn't Worked for Them as Early as They Thot it Might!, -They're Saying something like!, -"They'll Come Around!" (To Translate it into "Americanese"). Our Casualties over there Markedly Declined over the Last Good Number of Weeks. But They so Opposing U.S. Got Back on their Bean, and Are Ratcheting Up the "Displeasure Pressure" on U.S. Again! Tempting our Softer Side! *Don't Give in to It!*

This is a Fight! In a Mortal Hand to Hand Struggle! One that We, (Aside from Maybe some General Moral, Economic, and Defense Lapses in our Society), -Didn't Start. ,-You *Keep* At It!, and For a *Long* Term! (For the Duration! / As Long as It Takes!). And *You* Keep Applying *Your* Greater Strength, Properly Directed at any Given Moment, -on Him! You Don't just Magnanimously "Nicen Up"!, -in the Midst of your Mortal Struggle for Survival!

Reminds me of a Old Time Drawing I've Seen of an Indian and a White Man Locked into such a Mortal Struggle! Each Knew it was either "Me or Him"! Each Knew It Came Down to Their Very Life! "And It Ain't Gonna be Me!",-Both Thought! As Neither Relinquished the Struggle!

We in the West, and to our Peril, -Are Not Entirely Like That!

I'm also Reminded of the Anti-Vietnam War Protesters, -Who'd Put Flowers into the Barrels of National Guard Guns! Well Thats Very Nice! And Peace *Ideally* is the Way!

But Had They Gone Over to Indochina Themselves and Try to Do That! Walk Up and Try to Put some Flowers into North Viet or VC Guns, -While They're Trying to Stage for an Offensive! (Or at Any Other Time). -Not Only would the North and VC Laugh at Them to their Face! But They'll Use Those Guns to Mow Them Down! The Peace Movement could Do such here at Home in the U.S., -Because They Knew that in All Great Liklihood, -as Well as out of their Naivete, -That our Authorities wouldn't Shoot! Yes, Exceptions like Kent State sometimes Occurred. Authorities were sometimes Pushed, Accidents or Other Miscalculations sometimes Occurred. But as a General and Prevalent Rule!, We Thought Better, -Than to Just Mow Down our Owc Citizens Like That!, -Tienanmen Style.

Well, -Our Real Enemies Out There Continue to See Some Real and Marked Predisposition for Soft Sided Weakness on our Part!

Here at Home, -We Straddle the Hawk / Dove Fence! And Even to the Extent that Many of U.S. are on the Hawk Side, -We're Uncomfortable with It! We're Softening Up in the Mortal Hand to Hand Struggle! Our Enemies Figure to Tilt our Fence Straddling Balance!, -Over Their Way! "Keep At Em!", They Say Among Themselves. "They'll Tire of It!" It's like a Popular Wager Going Around!, in Their World! -"How Many Americans / Westerners Dead, Etc, Does it Take?, -Before They Revert to Form and "Soften Over"!?"

I'm Oppossed to Trigger Happiness as Well as Gun Shyedness!

But We're Going Around with our Tail Between our Legs!, Too Much! What Ever Happened to that Good Ole American Gut! / Can Do Spirit!? Back in All the Vietnam Protests, -I Used to Similarly Wonder, -"What Ever Happened to that Good Ole, GI Joe, "Get Charlie!" Spirit!?"

We've Got Work to Do!, -Before we Can Again Afford to Do Much Nicening Up! Our Work's Now Cut Out for U.S.!

I'm a Very Warm and Fuzzy Person! But I Know that When Engaged in a Mortal Hand to Hand Struggle like That!, -That This is *Not* Such a Time!, -For Such Softish, Warm and Fuzzy, Nicening Up!

Lets Face It!, -Our Real Enemies Out There!, -Came Running at U.S. in This Fight! We Didn't Start it by Throwing a First Punch, -Our Home Front Lapses over Decades Notwithstanding!

It's Now a Mortal Struggle All the Same! You Don't Soften Up Any *Within* Such!

Well, Our Real Enemies Out There, -Are Holding Out this Temptation and Teaser on U.S.! They're Trying to Ratchet Up the Pressure! Don't Softishly Fall For It! Keep in the Fight Till We've Got it Won!

They are Some of the Most Outrageous! They're the Ones Who just Cold Bloodedly Slit Stewardesses Throats, on 9-11! Don't Mis-Dignify Them!, -With a Give and Throw the Towel In!, -of an Answer!

And Let's Also Feel and Extend as Much Thought and Sympathy to the Four of U.S. so Slain in Iraq!, as We Rightly Have Thought to Do Towards the Two at Home here in Kansas City. A Case Where Terrorism and it's Like Most Probably Had Nothing to Do with It. This is Just What I Feel to be a Due Thought.

This Recent and Sizeable Development Cannot and Should Not Go without Mention here in my Update. (I'm Speaking of the Attack on our Four in Itself, -Not Only All of the Due Sympathy. And So it is Mentioned here.

I've Covered Two of the Three Things that have Since Occurred to me. The Third yet Momentarily Escapes me, and I Don't Know that It'll Return within the Edit Window! So When it Does, It'll be Basically Mentioned Somehow.

Again, This is now Considerably Relevant to General Survival. It May Not Yet be Around the Top of the Totem Pole, -But it Has Moved Up at Least a Few Heads from the Bottom! Keep an Eye and Ear Out!, And Be Prepared and Ready!

[color:"black"] [/color] [email]ScottRezaLogan[/email]

It certainly is True that there are some Major New Developments! Didn't Think I'd have to type on it so Soon! But it is Undeniably So.

We're Rightly Taking Care of Fallujah, the Scene of What was Outrageously Done to our Personnel / Fellow Americans.

Not in Pure Revenge, but in Proper Answering Retaliation. And Towards Getting at Those Responsable for Staging and Carrying Out this Outrage / Attack. Bremer has said that This will Not be Tolerated, Nor Go Unanswered. As Well it Shouldn't!

But Unless we Get our Forces, Resources, Resolve, and Preparedness Fully Up to Good Strength and Speed!, -And *Keep* Them There!, *Stay* that Way!, and Be in it for the *Long* Term Duration! Unless we Do These Things!, -Will we Really Have Enough with Which to Answer *All* such Future Outrages?! Will we be Able to Hold All of Many Balls in the Air?!

All in All, -We Ought to be Sure that we're Tapped Into a Rich, Deep Well! In the Manpower, Resources, and All of a Department! We Ought to Allow for Further / Expanded Future Developments! We Don't Want various Wells of Our's Running Dry in Mid-Draw!

This Means the Economy, Alertness and Resolve, National Security and Defense, Sci-Tech Supremacy, and Indeed, -Even Things on an All Round Moral Etc.Front. These are our Several "Must Dos"!

Shortchange These, -and We at some Point may Find that we Just Don't Have Enough! At a Time we Can't Afford to Not Have Enough!

So Let's Take Ourselves a Good, Deep Breath! And Be On with It! To Get and Be Ready! For What I Think *is* Gonna Be a Fight! A Make It or Not Make It sort of a Fight!

Iraqi Involvement was and Is Neccessary. So it Behooves U.S. to Go About it as Prepared and Resource Ready as Called For and Possible! That Old "Do It with Enough and Right!, -or Don't Do it at All!", Duly Applies. And "Doing Nothing Wasn't / Isn't an Option!" So Let's Move Toward "Enough" and "Doing it Right"!

Let's Roll Up our Sleeves and Get Down to Business! That of our Survival, Safety, Security, and Protection! And of Freedom's Sort of Business! Let's Quit Overly Trying to Do Things on the Cheap!

I Think we can Regret Large Defense Cutbacks of the Last Number of Years and Decades! And Be Thankful for the Occassional Buildups as we've Had! The Folly of the Carter 70s "Hollow Army", and of the 90s Clinton Repitition of Such!

This, and Mentioning These Major Developments of Late, were about All I now Wanted to Say.

We'd have to be Living Under a Rock, -to Not See these Latest New and Concerning Developments!, -Nor of Their Implications and Import!

Including their Increasingly Coming to Bear on our various Survival and Preparedness of Concerns.

In Both Personal Survival, and as a Nation, We're Gonna Have to Be Ever Aware, Alert, and Ready!

It Could Sooner or Later Start Unraveling into Something Plenty More Unstable and Ruff!

But the Need to Counter and Fight!, -is in No Way Negated by That! This is No Time for a Softyish Sellout! We've Got to *Get* More in the Resources Etc Departments!, -Not Less!

( I've Heard on the News that This Fallujah Attack by our Enemies was a "Lay in Wait", Staged Event! Complete with Prepositioned Gasoline, Etc. Setup Simultaneously in a Number of Areas of the City. It was at This Specific Locale that they had the Target of Oppurtunity, to Do so on. And Did.)

( Interesting How They Did so Right on our Major Troop Handover too! Well as in the War of a Year Ago, -They're Up Against the United States Marine Corps! Who Do they Think our Marines Are!, if they Tend to Pooh Pooh Them Off! It's Only One of the World's Premiere Fighting Forces! They'd be Well Advised to Know That! Let Em Sleep So!, though! Though I'm Not a Marine Nor Former Marine, -"Semper Fi!")

And in Addition to our Kansas City Two, Who are Quite Rightly Acknowledged Here, and our Fallujah Four,-Who Seem to Not Have "Occurred to Mind"!, to a Same Extent, Yet At Least as Much Deserve to! -In Addition to These, -How Bout Also now our Ramadi Marine Twelve!? There is Nothing that Gets American Marines Determination and Dander Up Even More!, Nothing that Gets Them Fighting All the Harder!, -Than the Likes of These! "Do Go Get Em!"

Another Thot Towards Buoying our Morale, has since Occurred to me. And That's that George Washington Himself is Still Officially the General of All our Armies! I Mean This Not in a Light Sounding Way or Anything! For it is True and Duly Inspirational!, -For Real! George may No Longer be Literally Able to Lead and Command our Forces! And I'm All For His Being Left to Respectfully Rest in Peace!, as Well. But He is There in Spirit!, All the Same! Let's Duly Keep This Inspiration in Mind! As we Go About Our's / Freedom's Present Day Tasks!

Speaking of President and General Washington, -We are Of and From Valley Forge! And All Else in The Spirit of 1776!

If we Slacken Off in Minding our Freedom's Watch and Flame!, -We Could Find Ourselves *Back* to the Hardships and Deprivations of Valley Forge! And Who Knows for How Long!, Once Again! From Apache Gunships and Smart Weaponry and All Kind of Other Good Stuff!, -Back to the Cold and Snows of Another National Valley Forge! All Because we'd Have Forgotten that Central Spirit!, -of What our Apaches and All Spring From!, and are All About!

When I Think About Washington, Lincoln, and our Other Founding Fathers these Days!, -I Know that They Look Down upon U.S.! But What I Don't Always Totally Know!, -is Whether They're Looking Down on U.S. with a Smile, -or a Frown!

If the Latter!, -We Shud Get at Least a Tinge of Shame!, and Get on our Bean Towards Getting our various National Acts Together!

Now Much is also Good with our Country and People!, -and I'm Not Saying that Much Isn't! But Much is also Less of Ourselves! Less than What is Only Rightly Expected of U.S. and Our Freedom!

So with These Thoughts that we were Born With in 1776 Still Applicable and in Play in a Year Approaching 2006!, -Let's Be and Act So!

Take Along the Inspiration! But Also Attend to Freedom's Task!

In Rain as Well as Sunshine!, as Another Founding Father, Thomas Paine, -So Well Said! He Wrote Such for George Washington and His Men at Valley Forge! George Washington was So Moved by These Sweet, Moving Words, at a Time when They were So Sorely Needed! That He was Actually Moved to Weep! He Had His Officers Read It!, -To All His Units and Men! Let's Avert Another Return to Valley Forge!, to the Best of our Dedication, Know How, and Ability!

Be Inspired in How He is Yet With U.S.! But Be About Freedom's and America's All Round Calls and Tasks Too! To Sorta "Praise the Lord", but Also to Remember to "Pass the Ammunition!"

That is All I Want to here Add. [color:"black"] [/color] [email]ScottRezaLogan[/email]

Newest Dubious / Notorious / Outrageous / and Shameable Development is the Kidnapping of the Three Japanese. Civilians Only on a Humanitarian Mission, -I'd Add. (One of Them is a Reporter too) There is also a Real Danger of Other Kinappings. A La the Colombians!

Far From Cowing the Japanese though!, -The Kidnapper Terrorists may Find their Own Actions to Backfire on Them!

Japan's Dander and Resolve may Just be *Increased!*, Over This, -Not Decreased!

What if Japan perhaps even Goes so Far as to *Increase* It's Troop Presence!, as a Result of This. Would That ever be a Message to Send such Terror-Nappers!

If Need be, Japan Will Regrettably Sacrifice it's Own, for a Greater Good.

Japan Does Not Surrender! It's Not Typically Known to Do so! It Took Two!,-Not One, -but Two!, -Atom Bombs! Before They Finally Did, -perhaps for the First Time in their History, -Make a Reluctant, No Choice, Surrender!

The Goon's Video and Message Showed them Literally Holding Blades onto their Unwilling Captive's Throats! Ready to Slash. They've also Publicly said that they'd Burn their Bodies,-Alive, -Were their Demands for a Japanese Bugout Not Met. This is All so a la Fallujah.

Our Dander was Rightly and Understandably Gotten Up overThat! That Outrage! Some Level of Japan's may Now Be Too!

Again, Regarding Both Incidents, -What Do they Think they're Going to Gain?!, By Such! They Want to Chase the Japanese and Others Out. But they May Actually Accelerate Their Flow *In*!

Japan one of These Days just may Decide to Re-Arm! A Step I would Strongly Support. They are the Great Britain of the Pacific. She may Someday Feel that She Understandably Needs to! That's Incidental, however.

What's Immeadiate is the Outrage Japan is now Being Subjected to!

We Westerners may have some Tendancy or Inclination to Change our Minds! But I Don't Think these Terrorist Thugs Quite Understand Asian Values or Ways! When Asians Give Their Word, -They Keep It!

Japan Found it in it's Interest to Have a Prescence in Iraq, -and Isn't Gonna be Swayed from it by a Few Terrorist Threats and Thugs! It's Other, Larger, Interests Remain Unchanged!, by This!

Also, I Don't Think they Very Well Understand the Asian Matter and Value of "Face"!

And I Think that the Hindus and Buddhist Peoples are Gonna Be None Too Happy with Them either! When the Terrorist's World Islamic Jihad Stuff Starts Relbing on These Others!

Already the Taliban just Cooly and Cruelly Destroyed the Large, Historic, Buddhist Statues in Afghanistan! Buddhists are Peaceful, -but I Don't Think that They Could or Should View This Kindly!

Islam Doesn't Want their Mosques and Such to be Transgressed Upon!, -Yet They're Not Willing to Act Likewise!, Towards Others! It Then Takes some Nerve to Cry to the World About your Own!

They so Can Come to Have Not Only the Judeo-Christians as a Determined Enemy! But the Large Hindu and Buddhist Worlds Too!

So Again, -What Do they Really Think they're Gaining by Such!?

They could be Only Driving the Likes of Germany and France, -Ever the More *Toward* U.S.! Not Away!

So if We and Others *Don't* "Spanish Cave In" from This! -Then any "Gain" From This, -Could Be Our's! They could be Unwittingly but Definitely, -Handing a Gain Over to Us / U.S.!

But if on the Other Hand we Just Cower and Cave to This!.....We'd Mayswell Have just Left the Barn Door Wide Open! When we So Easily Could Have and Should Have Kept it Closed! And Then we Wonder Why the Horse has Gotten Out! A Terroristic Horse! From such a Pandora's Barn Box! We Would have Uselessly *Handed* Them a Gain Here!, That They Otherwise Would Just Not Have Had!

There are Cut Your Losses Times and Matters in Life, -But This is Not One of Them! If you Give these Likes such an Appeasing Inch!, They'll Emboldingly Try for an Aggressive Mile on You! Let's Have some Stomach here! Let's Have some Long Term Lasting and Staying Power!

Perhaps Japan will Now Show a Different and Better Example!, than Spain Lately Did!

And Spain Will Always be With Us! And May Yet Fully Be Back!

As to Condy's Testimony Today, -Her Detractors say that They Should Have Known and Done Something About it Pre- 9 -11.

But This is From the Same Folks Who were Crying About First Getting "Incontrovertable Proof of an Imminent Threat!" Etc!, -About Iraq!

Had Bush and His Team All Out Wanted to Get At Osama and Co, -*Prior* to 9-11!, -Like Clark and Co. Now Crow For!, -We'd Have Never Heard the End of All This Peaceish, Softy Talk on "No Imminent Threat", Etc! From Again Guess Who! It'd Be just Like the Leadup to the Neccessitated War in Iraq!

And Now these Same Detractors Cry About Pre 9-11 Matters! As if They Themselves would be So Hawkish About It! This is Laffable! An Astonishments of Astonishments!

And As Condoleeza Quite Very Well has Said!, Nothing Specific was Given to Go On! What Do you Specifically Go Out and Strike?, if you're Not Given a Specific Target!

Shoot Wild!, and you Open Yourself Up to Domestic and World Criticism on that Score! Guess Who a Lot of that Domestic Outcry would Have Come From!?

Those Presently Crying for Pre-Emptive Action, -Would Have Stood Staunchly in that Very Same Pre-Emptive Action's Way!!!

The New Bush Administration was Trying to Get an Anti -Terrorist Policy of Substance Together! After a Decade of Cinton Peaceish Appeasement and Weak Half Measures! And of FBI-CIA Hand Tying since the Mid 70s! (Guess Where a Lot of That Came From! -Not the Hawks and Such!) Only 233 Days to Try to Get an Effort of Real Substance Together!, Before 9-11 Finally Did Come Down. Osama and Co. were just Able to Strike First.

Guess Who Laid the Groundwork for What Finally Happened 8 Months into the New President's Term? While Yes, -It Wasn't Totally Clinton, -an Awful Lot of it was! His 8 Years of Such! Half Hearted at Best of Measures! Heart and Spirit Not Really Into It! Domestic Affairs (and Sleazy Personal Ones-Subjecting U.S. to Such!) to the Exclusion of, and At the Expense of Foreign / National Security and Defense of Ones! No Dang Wonder!

Would a Pre- 9-11 Congress Really Been as Friendly to Such a Robust Bush Anti-Terrorist Effort *Before* Sept. 11th? Would They Have Been So as They were Afterwards?! I Don't Think So! Congress OKs and Appropriates the Funds. I Doubt They would Have Appropriated or Approved in the Same Way Before!, -as After!

Would the Typical Peace Prefferer or Anti-Busher also Have Been So?! Again I Don't Think So! Again Just Look to their Not Long *After* Sept 11th!, of Attitudes and Actions!, as Concern the Bush Iraq Efforts!

Now Had Bush Done Nothing on Iraq!, and at Some Stretch Down the Road, -Be That Sooner or Later, -Saadam Layed One Into U.S. Somehow! Those Very Peaceniks!, Would Instead be After the Fact, Sunshine Hawks!, on Iraq! So Which of the Two is it?! One Can't Have it Both Ways!

Likewise, If Prior to 9-11, -Bush would Have Clamored to Go After Al Qaida, -We'd Have Been Hearing All the "Incontrovertable Proof" Stuff!, -From these Very Same People! As They certainly Laid On Thick and Heavy, in (a "Beforetime") Iraq! Amazements of Amazements!

It is Such Detractors who Drop a Real and Astonishing Ball!, Both Before and After 9-11! Not Bush and Co.Beforehand! Nor After.

Such is my Take on Condy's Testimony of Today.

As to "No" WMD Supposedly Being Found in Iraq, (And Some Mobile Bio-Weapons Trucks and Such *Were* Found!), -Isn't This Precisely the Kind of "Screw Someone Up" Stuff!, (ie, Hideing It, Destroying It, Etc), -That Saadam and Co, -Would Do!? Consider the Source!

Look at All the Past Nuclear and Other WMD Things *Were* Known and Found! I Recall him on a Newscast Once, -Nose Thumbingly Holding Up Nuclear Triggers he'd Acquired! That's Not Exactly a WMD Angel!, in my Book!

He was Hamstrung somewhat, (But Still Strong) with his WMD Ambitions Between his Two Persian Gulf Wars!, -What with Sanctions, Inspections, and All. The World's Spotlight was at least Somewhat on him! Nukes and WMDs Then Aren't of the Same Feasability or Fun!, as They'd Been Before!

So it's the Next Best Thing!, -to Really Make America and the West Look Like it has Egg on it's Face! To Put On such a "Good Guy" Appearance! They Moved This Up to their Fore!

If he was So Clean, -Why Not Do a South Africa Like, "Oh Sure!" Spirit and Forthcomingness! Regarding Renewed Inspections in the Leadup to the Recent War?! Why All the Inspections Stonewalling?! (Both Inspections One and Two) Why the Nearly 5 Years Long Inspectors Bootout?! Those Bootoutees were Official UN Personnel, (As Well as Numerous Resolutions, Directives, and his Own Gulf War One Surrender Aggreement), and This Guy was Suppossedly Cooperating with the World Community and UN?!

So Don't just Fall For "Innocent" WMD Appearances!

That's where I Come Down on WMD, and their Apparently Not as of Yet being Found. That is Not any Real Reason against our War or Effort!

On All Counts as Bush and Co. have Cited, -Moving on saadamistic Iraq was the Right, Imperative, and Neccessary Thing to Do!

I Had to Basically Address Iraqi WMDs here, Lest the Point be Raised in Rebuttal, -to some of What I've Earlier Talked About.

So Take Heart! Have Courage! March with Hope! Stay the Course! And Steady as She Goes! Don't Give or Cave In! Would we Have Done So in those Weeks and Months Just After September 11th?! Of Course Not! Well if we Remember and Have Never Forgotten!, as we so Loudly Proclaimed to Be the Case!, -Then Let's Follow Thru and Act Like It! And Likewise Weaken or Give In Not Now! This is No Time or Place to Be Turning Yellow!

As to Knives Being Held to the Japanese Three's Throats!, -What would for example Reagan Do?! Can you just Hear the Kind of Remarks He'd be Making?! That's Much of the General Spirit! Let's Have Something of a "Reagan Reaction and Outrage!", Regarding This! As we Did with our Own Fallen, of September 11th! Not a Yellow Give In Appeasement! [color:"black"] [/color] [email]ScottRezaLogan[/email]

The Other Day I Heard a Report of One or Two Americans being Abducted by Those over there! Today I've Heard of Yet Another!

An Ironically Fine, "Run the Wrong Way Down the Track!", Way of Trying to Get U.S. to Bug Out of Fallujah and Iraq! Like We're Suspossed to Just Be Run Out or Something!

Our Resolve, Conversely, -Can and Should Only be Strengthed and Stiffened!, -By Such! These are Our People! These are Our Fellow Americans! Run and Bug Out?! Sheesh!

A Silly Supposition of Their's! When Similar Outrageous Stuff at Fallujah was the Reason for Our Dander Being Up!, and of our Armed Presence that we Now Have in Fallujah, to Begin With!

Unless *We* Queasle and Cave Though! Our Enemies are Banking and Counting on That! *Don't* Buy That! *Don't* Fall For It!

These New Outrages will Only Get our Dander Up All the More! It Darned Certainly Should! Or One of our Worst Enemys is U.S. Ourself!

Another Bush Now Continues to Draw a Line in the Sand!, and Says that "This Will Not Stand!"

Our Country's Been 9-11ed, -Something we Hopefully Have Remembered, -and Not just Forgotten!

We Have our Peaceniks and Questioners / Doubters, Here at Home, and in Sizeable Numbers.

We Have our Faith Keepers Too!, -Also in Sizeable Numbers!

We've Stayed the Course and Kept the Faith!, for a Full Year Now. Against some Good Softieish Temptations to Bug Out!, in a Saigon and South Vietnam Style of Such! We Stay the Course Now and Over the Course of this Past Year.

They're Dealing With the Nation that's Been 9-11ed!

They're Dealing With Bush and Co. and Their Fine Leadership!

They're Dealing With the Nation that's just Been Fallujahed, With Four of it's Own!

They're Dealing With the Nation that in the Same Way Values the Life of Any Other Number of it's Citizens! Such as Those Fellow Americans Currently Kidnapped Now.

And We're Suspossed to be just Flicked Off and Out!?

Let's also For Our Part!, *Not* just Fall For the Temptation and Bait!

Spain at Least for the Moment has Somewhat Weakened! Thailand may Now be Toying with the Same!

(And We Stood By Thailand Thruout the Whole Course of the Vietnam / Indochina War! If we Also Ball Droppingly Did Not Do So, in 1975!)

But We, Japan, Britain, Australia, Italy, Poland, and Many Others, -Are Bravely and Admirably Holding the Faith and Line!, -In the Face of This! Of This Presently Non-Sunny Turn we've Had in the Iraqi Weather!

And So they Make Yet a New Kidnapping, -Another New Threat! That's Getting Old! Tell Us Something Else that is New!, or That we Don't Know!

And They Think they're Gonna So Run Even U.S.!, -Out that Quickly and Easily!?

It's Like a Bully Who Successfully Intimidates and Extorts Money in the Schoolyard! Such Exploitee as he Has, Now Moves Way Up on his Want List!

And Such a Bully is Only Further Emboldened!, -Towards Again Trying Such on Others! "If it Worked on This Person!,-....-It May Just as Well Work on Others! Hell!, -Give It a Shot and Go! After All!, -I Am a Bully / Terrorist!, -in Any Event! This Cave In Validates It! With Some People(s) / Nations, -This Really Works and Pays Off!", -So Goes Their Thinking!

Are *We* a Cave Inner to Such a Bully?! Resist and Don't Fall For the Bait or Softyish Temptation!

This Shud Only Be a Normal and Natural Matter of Course!

To my Chagrin!, -I've Got to Often Enuff Wonder if we're Really All that Up on It!, or Not!? We Shud *Not* Have to Be Reminded or Told! It Shud Be as Normal and Natural to U.S.!, -as a Kid Not Having to Be Told or Reminded to Play! That's How Basic it Really Is and Should Be!

Well, Let's Put the Kabosh on Such an Attitude of Our Own! And Disabuse Ourselves of Such Notions!

Let's Do the Exact Same Kaboshing and Disabusement!, of those Terrorist Killers, Threats, Kidnappers, and Body Abusers and Burners!

Especially When It Comes to it Involving No Less Than Our Own!!! -Such as Our Four at Fallujah. And the Up to Several of U.S. Who Now Have Since Been Shanghaiedly Kidnapped!

And Though Not Specifically Our Own, -The Three Japanese Captives Havn't Escaped my Memory, -Nor That of Many Others!

To Just Throw In the Towel Towards the "Knife at the Throaters"!, -Is the Exact Wrong and Worst Thing to Do Right Now! Or Ever!

The Terroristic Kidnappers and String Uppers, -Moreover, -Are Precisely Trying to Coax and Egg U.S. Off in This Direction! Are We Going to Just Fall For such Bait!?! Are We Actually Gonna Be Silly and Stupid Enough to Do So???!!!

They're Gonna Try to Tilt the Poll Numbers and Election Away from Bush too! And Towards his Softyish Opponent. Indeed, -They've Already Begun Doing so! Even if a Later Spanish Style Influencing / Interference Attempt perhaps Doesn't Take Place! Let Alone When it Quite Likely Enough Could! Be Aware and Beware!

They are also Trying to Spook U.S. Out!, by Raising the Spectre of Vietnam.

Well a Real Lesson of the Vietnam / Indochina War, -is That of our Staying With It! And *Not* Just Running Tail and Bugging Out! Of *Not* Leaving our Allies in Freedom, Out in the Lurch! (Corrupt and Fault Possessing as They Doubtless were), and to the Wolves and Holding the Bag!

What if Saigon 1975 ever Comes Back Around on U.S.?!

The Real Lessons of Vietnam were also to Hold Fully and Faithfully on Things such as our Determination, Alertness, and Resolve! This in a Vietnamization Assistance, -if Not with 500,000 of our Ground Personnel in there at any One Time!

And to Go In with Enough!, -Not Trying to Wing It on the Cheap!

And of Staying In It for the Long Haul! Not "Tireing of It After a While!", as Ho Did So Well Put It! And as Osama and Co. Do So Well Put It Now! Now Something like That!, is a Real Parellel with Vietnam!

Things like A). Such a Vietnamization Program, (Something which Johnson Should Have Done in the 60s!, -The Vietnamization that Nixon Later Did), B). A Mighty and Nearby U.S. Airpower and Seapower Backup!, C). Bombing and Mining of the North and the Trail!, and D). Physically Cutting that Ho Chi Minh Trail, Clear Across Southern Laos to Thailand and the Mekong!, in a Strong, Fortified Line!,-

These are the Ways that we Definitely Could Have WON the Vietnam War! We and the Free (if Still Quite Corrupt) Republic of South Vietnam (and a Free or Neutralistic Laos and Cambodia), -Could Have So Won It!

These Three Nations would be Free Today!, Taking Their Place Today, Among their Fellow Southeast Asian Economic Tigers!

North Vietnam and the Viet Cong would Have Withered on the Vine! And Have Ended Up Looking Quite Foolish and Stupid!, for Having Militaristically Tried to Invade All About the Area, to Begin With!

Alas!, though! -We Fell for various Peacenik Bills of Goods in Vietnam! And Did *Our* Major Part to Just Hand!, our North Viet and VC Enemies a Victory! That They Otherwise Just Wouldn't Have Had!

And We're Now in Danger of Falling For Doing that Same Thing Here in Iraq!

They of the "Out Now!" Crowd are the Ones with the Credibility Gap! It was They Who Eclipsed the Light at the End of the Tunnel! These are Many of the Real Lessons of Vietnam!

A Lesson of Vietnam is Both that we Can and Should Stay With It! So if any Vietnam Parellels are to be Drawn!....,-The Call and Evidence is on *This* Side of the Case!, as I Mention! Not the Softy Pofty Gunshy, "Out Now"ers! The Real Lesson of Vietnam is Not, that "We Shudn't Have Been There Then!, So Therefore we Shouldn't be There Doing the Same Such Now!" No!, -But Rather One of "We Should Have Stayed With It and Won It Back Then! And Should Likewise Stay and Win Now!" That is the Attitude, Accent, Focus, and Spirit! So Let's *Not* just Again Fall For It Now! A Retreatist, Defeatist Bugout of Yesterday!, Again Misapplied to Today! If we Again Automatically Gravitate to that Feeding Pen!, -We would Again be Applying the *Wrong*, Mis-Learned Lesson(s) of Vietnam! Fall For It Again Not!

(The December 1972 B-52 "Christmas Bombing" of North Vietnam! Many Called it Suppossedly "Barbaric" and Such! I Just Loved It! It was Called For and Sorely Needed in the Circumstances! As Patton Said, -"War!, -God How I Love It!" What Do you Do When some "Barbarism" is Sorely Called For and Needed!? Barbarism and Such, in Such Vein, -is Not Always Entirely a Bad Thing! And if we Must Defend Ourselves and Freedom at Christmastime!, -Then So Be It! Others Don't Always Take or Respect our Holiday! Besides, Nixon and Co. Actually Did Unilaterally Institute a Brief Christmas Truce, -Even Then!)

Falling For it So!? -Would We Have Done So On and Just After September 11th?!

Would Those True Everyday American Heroes of Flight 93 Have Just Meekly and Obsequiously Went Along?!

OK Then! It's Still Really Not All that Long After Such!

"Never Forget!" Means to *Never* Forget! *"Now"* is a Part of That Never!

One Can Honestly Differ that we Shud Have Militarily Moved on (saadamistic) Iraq!, as a Part of Our Self Defense Effort and Process!, -in These New Circumstances and Times. On That I would Personally and Strongly Beg to Differ! But even One Honestly Feeling So!, -Cannot and Should Not Otherwise just Forget the Lessons of September 11th!

Among Those Chiefmost Lessons are to *Not* Forget! And to *Not* Be Caught Again with our Guard Down!!!

The Answer and Key to Such Threats, Attacks, and Outrages here is to Have More!, -Not Less! Of Resolve, Efforts, and Resources. Of Having *Enough* Oomph! Of our Lasting Power and Stomach! Not a Tail Between our Legs sort of Not Even Getting Into the Ring! Or of Sheepishly Cringing Back on Out!, -Once in There! We're just Gonna Have to Wrestle Them Down!

Our Very Survival and Such is On the Line! We Have No Choice about the Matter!, -in Any Event!

We're the Nation that Simultaneously Defeated Both nazi Germany and the Empire of Japan! With Mussolini's PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER. Italy Thrown In for Good Measure! Don't Tell me that we Can't Last or Stay the Course Now! Or that This is Ultimately Too Big for U.S. to Handle! Where There is a Will!, and Where There are Resources, -There is a Way! The Idea That we Supposedly Can't Hold the Fort!, -in this One, Smaller, (Though Still Populous), Third World Country! -Let's Not Be Silly!

As I'm Typing This, I've just Heard those Jokers Make some Kind of "Or Else!" Threat!, on the 11 O'clock News. That's again in Connection with These *American* Kidnappings over there, as I speak of. Well Hey!, -In the Face of Such Outrages as they've Done Even More of Lately!, -*We're* the Ones Who are Going to Do the "Or Elseing!"! I Think the Shoe Really Fits here! It is Such Knife Wielders who've Donned Such Shoe!, and that Bring This About!

I Hear in the Next Morning's News, as I do a Further Edit, -That they're Threatening to Mutilate our Fellow American shud their Bug Out Demands of U.S. Not be Met. And "To Be Treated to a Worse Fate than the Fallujah Four!" (a Very Close Paraphrase) Well an "Outrage"!, once again, -is the First and One of the Best Words I can Think of to Describe it! Nothing Less than That! Well Nothing's Changed or New! The Previous Paragraph Still Holds and Stands! They Can Refer Back to that Paragraph. What Part of That Don't They Understand?! Very Simple! Well *We're* once again the Ones Who are Going to Do the "Or Elseing"!, -to Such Unacceptable Outrages as They've Done or Will Do!

I've also Lately Heard Iraqi Governing Council Members "Sassing" U.S.!, Over Fallujah and some Other Things.

They Will Soon Enuff be Their Own, Full, Sovereign Government, Albeit Still in Association with our Continued Troop Prescence / Occupation.

But They are Not Yet Now. They are Still Conquerees and Surrendurees Under *Our* Military Occupation! They Have Their Governing Council at *Our* Grace and Pleasure!

And as Native Iraqis, They Do Have some Feelings about Fallujah. That is Understandable Enough.

But They'd Do Well to Remember that They've been Conquered! In a Fair and Square Military Conflict, and Now Subsequent Military Governance and Occupation!

And that We Also Have some Strong and Very Understandable Fallujah Feelings of Our Own! They so Brought Those About by Their Disgraceful and Outrageous Actions to Four of U.S. at Fallujah!

When Citizens of a Country Do Such to Citizens of Another!, -(Even When Without Being Subject to a Military Occupation!, -Let Alone in Their Case With!), -They can Expect such U.S. Type Reactions to Happen! This is Quite a No Brainer!

*Bremer* IS Now their All Powerful! *Not* Saadam Any Longer! Bremer is Their Boss!, -Like it or No!

I'm Reminded of some German Citizens Protesting Against the Allies, in the First Few Years of the Postwar Occupation. In the American Zone. One of our Commanders was Inspired to Clearly Tell Them in No Uncertain Terms!, -That They were *Conquerees* and Under Military Occupation! And That They Had Best Never Forget That! Now Thats the Attitude and Spirit! On His Part! And On What Should be Their Part! And Now Likewise Shud be on the Iraqi Populace and Governing Council's Parts!

Battle Shapeing Up!, Folks! "A Time for War!" This is Who We're Gonna Have to Fight! It's Gonna Rain on Sunday! Quit in This Case Hopeing for the Sun!, -and Get Out your Umbrella! This is No Time to Fall, Fail, Faint Off and Out, or Lose Faith! Courage, Bravery, and All That sort of Such! In Something of a Churchillian Spirit and Fashion! No Time to just "Cringe Queasle" Homeward!

Like a Song Says, -It's Too Late to Turn Back Now!

Our Not Having Entered to Begin With, -Just Wasn't an Option Either!

So Go In in Force and Strength!

Take Care of Business and Get the Job Done!

It is as Simple as That!

A Softly Tempted Caving or Queasleing In!, -Obviously Just has NO Place in This here!

In a sort of a Tie Together, Sum Up, -I speak of our Fellow American Kidnapees and of our Fallujah Four!

And I Urge that we *Don't* Just Let Ourselves be Run Out! They can Do the Chasing! But it is Only *We* Who can Do the Run Out Compliance!

These are Very Much my Two Great Sumups here.

Let's Let Them Know that It Does NOT Pay!, -To Threaten, Kill, or Burn Americans or Anyone Else! And for U.S. to NOT Queasleingly of Ourselves, Act to Show or Suggest that It Does So Pay!!! [color:"black"] [/color] [email]ScottRezaLogan[/email]

Some More Real and Serious Developments have Occurred, and are Occurring. Such as Spain's and Two Smaller Nation's Queasly, Enemy Encouraging Bugouts, a Likely Further Fallujah Four, the Status of Other Global and American Kidnapees, the Italian who has been Killed, Putting a Kabosh on Sadr and All his Trouble Stirring Borp, -Among Other Real Developments.

"Days, -Not Weeks", -I Liked that Marine Response to Developments, -or More like "Lack Of" Developments, -in Fallujah Today.

I was Holding Off on sometimes seeming to make a Post Nearly a Day. (There are Times when Major Real Developments Occur at about that Pace!) I was gonna soon enuff Collect these Together in the Next Follow On Post.

Personal Matters having since Cropped Up, are now also having their Effect.

I'll speak Briefly to this here. In Short, -Does Anyone have a Job, or Other Means of Helping me Out, if I could Work my Way to Any Such One's / Your, Part of the Country?

I Have a Sister, of whom I'm a Co-Tenant with, (and She's the Main Tenant). She's about to Soon Kick me Out, -for Things I Know to be of Undue Cause. For One, She Misbeleives that I've got Disabilities, (When I Virtually to Entirely Don't! She Hinges this on Possible Genetic Inheritances), and is Trying to Force me into such a Situation, -or Else be Out on the Street! And as a Song Says, -She in Many Respects Often Can't or Doesn't Fully Run Her Own Life Right! Yet She Thinks She's Gonna Run and Make Judgements on Mine!

Though I'm just about Nil Equipped, -Being yet a Newcomer to Proactive Survival Preps, -I of course Have Both the Survival Sense / Spirit, as Well as Much of the All Round Knowledge. I Will of course Try my Dangest to Survive Out There!, and to Not just "Roll Over and Die"! As the Saying Goes.

As to Yet More Real "U.S. and Our Terrorism Struggle for Survival" of Developments, -of which this Unfortunate Personal Matter of Mine Bears On, -I'll Try to Get Back with a Basic Keeping Up with Such, -When I Can, -If I Can.

If Anyone wishes to Reach me on This, -Then Please either PM and/or Normally Post to me. [color:"black"] [/color] [email]ScottRezaLogan[/email]

The Guy Escaped!

PS- Escape and Evasion would be a Good Topic to Talk of Around our Campfire more Often! (Only when it Naturally Comes Up though! No "Forcing" It. / No Undue Rush. It'd be a Good One, though!) [color:"black"] [/color] [email]ScottRezaLogan[/email]

The Abuses Done by a Small Number of our Personnel in and Toward Iraqis is Wrong!

It is also Disserving to our Interests, Goals, and Positive, Noble Aspirations and All.

Those Truly Guilty of such Transgressions and Wrongs, -Should Recieve from our System What they Truly Deserve, for Carrying Out and Commiting such Abuses and Wrongs.

I Don't Think they were Ordered to Do so. But if they were, -That Brings Up the Whole Matter of Who, What, and Why, -Any such Wrongly Abusive Orders were Given. Anyone Guilty of Such, -Should be Legally Disciplined for Such so.

This All Said and Remaining of our Kettle, -The Previous, saadamistic Iraqi Pot, was Far Far Blacker! For Far, Far, Longer!

Two Wrongs of course Don't Make a Right. And We All shud Remain to our Higher Levels, and NOT Sink or Stoop to saadamistic Ones Ourself!

But it's rather Strange to Hear All this Talk, of our *Comparatively* Few Black Spots on our Largely White Kettle. Yet at the Same Time, to Hear Little to None on the So Much Larger, and Longer Running, saadamistic Black Pot!

They were the Champs at this sort of Stuff! What Does Anyone Think has been Going On at Abu Ghraib!?, -All These Years from at least 1968 On!? As Well as All of the Many Other saadamistic and baathist Abu Ghraibs and Killing Fields Across the Iraqi Land?

It's Strange to See such a Spotlight Shining on this *Comparative* Upper Michigan Mountain! Yet None at All on the Towering Everest Right Next to it!

Still None of our Personell, -However Few, -Shud Emulate such an Everest!

Though All DUE Tuffness on our Part should Remain. This is No Time or Place to be Going Wobbly Soft!

A Minority of our Individuals, in Addition to being Abusively in the Wrong, -Have Greatly Disserved our All Round Cause and Efforts so. They also Ended Up Playing Right Into our various Enemies Hands.

Those Guilty of Such have Only Set our Image and Efforts Back All the More! They've effectively Added Rocks to the Pack, that America Carries on it's Back. This is NO Time to be Doing Such, to say the Least!

But even Without such a Wrong and Disserving Abuses of Late, -The Seawaves are High! And Against U.S.!

Things are Constantly Not Exactly Breaking our Way!

(Occassional Things like saadam and his sons, 4/5 of the Card Deck being Killed or Captured, and All of the "Quiet Good" being Done in Iraq, -Notwithstanding)

Were Trying to Do a Little Much with a Good Bit Too Little!, -Much of the Time.

Multiple Balls sometimes Come at U.S. rather Fast. Do we Have Enuff Bats to Bat All of them Away?

This Involves More than just Iraq, Afghanistan, or Qaida Style Terrorism. It Involves the Entire Arab / Islamic / and Mideastern Worlds as Well. Just Look at the Ever Present Mideastern Situation! And Perhaps even in a Larger Sense, thet Larger Third and PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER. Worlds as Well!

(If Anyone Thinks PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER. is Dead and has Passed, -One Only has to Remember that Nearly One Fourth of All Humanity, is Locked Behind Red / PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER. / Tienanmen China's Bamboo Curtain! Sure they have a Good Deal of Capitalism there. But it is "Capitalism on a Leash"! The Only Means by which Chinese PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER. Survives)

They are All Together Far Larger than We or Our Kind!

We've Got to Really Tighten our Belts, Get Down to the Business of Freedom's Security and Survival, and Work like a Dog Towards This!

Put our Silly Michael and Janet Jackson type Stuff Aside! We've Got a Country, System, and our Very Selves to Fight For and to Survive With!

It's Gonna Require the Six "We Must Do's" that I speak of.

Namely,

A) Our Very National Security and Defense. (And by "Our", -I Mean the Entire Free, Developed, and Western World, Not Only the U.S. Alone)

B) Our All Round Moral Act.

C) Our Economic Act.

D) Fully and Lastingly Keeping Up our Alertness and Resolve!

E) Our Sci-Tech Supremacy and Lead.

and

F) Some More of that Same "Love and Help One Another!", of our Fellow Americans, of a Spirit! As we've So Well Had in those Immeadiate Weeks and Months Following our September 11th Experience.

We've Got to Remember and Have, that Above "Warm Fuzzy". But at One and the Same Time, -We Have to be B-52 and Spectre Gunship Tuff Too! In these New Circumstances and Times as we Now Find Ourselves In!

The Tides being Against U.S. is Only Increasing and Continuing. The Rising Flood about U.S. is Only Getting Deeper!

We've Got to Have an Abundant and Plentiful Measure of All Six of These! We Cannot Afford to be Doing any Playing or Pussyfooting Around! We've Got to Have Abundant Forces and Resources Towards All of This!

We Have to Have a Rapid, Massive, No Bones, Global Airlift and Sealift Capability! One which can Transport at least Half a Million Men and All their Equipment, -Clear Across the World in Not Much More than a Day, -in One Go! And This 100 % Within our Military Means. No Pan Am Troop Transports, as were Rife within the First Persian Gulf War. Though a Civil Reserve Airfleet Backup shud of course Remain.

"Let's Roll" Up our Sleeves and Be On with All of This!

We're Only at the Start of this All! We're a Long Way from Being Out of the Terroristic and All of a Woods Yet!

For Decades, Thru Inaction, as Well as Wrong, Imprudent Actions, -We Let a Lot of such Horrors Fly and Grow!, Out of Such an Opened Pandora's Box. It's Going to be a While Before we Get the Lid Shut / Wrestled Down again! And Round Up All of our Batlike Opponents which Have Flown Out, and About!

I Think it's Only Going to Continue to Ever Worsen! For a Long Time. Before it *May* at Long Last Finally Begin to Get Better!

And if We Keep variously Lollygagging Around!, -That "May", -May Well Never Happen! We may so Never Get Up and Out of, -the Surrounding and Growing Swamp!

I'd Venture that you can Mark my Words, -That Such Tough and Only Ever Tougher, Tighter Times, -Are A' Comin!

So Let's Really Take a Deep Breath, and Really Be On With It!

NO Room to Pussyfoot or Play Around!

It's Gonna Take ALL of our Wits, Efforts, Resolve, Unity, and Might!

Don't Plan and Bank on the Forecast Weekend of Rain! No!, -Further Do so for a Whole Week, Month, or Season of Such!

If we're to Err Anywhere, -It Shud of course be on the Side of Too Much! Not a Caught Up Short Too Little!

That Too Little just may Not Cut or Do It! At a Time we're Going to Really Need It!

We CAN'T Afford to Play Around with our Very Security, Safety, and Survival So!

We're Facing a Year's Worth of Cold Rain, -Not just a Weekend! Plan and Prepare Accordingly!

This would be the Case even if Nothing Improper or Untoward Happened on Some of our Parts at Abu Graib!

Let Alone when it Has! -When Some of our Personnel have Wrongly and Seriously Disserved U.S. So!

They've Only Set U.S. Further Back on the Track! When we've Got Tons of Catch Up Ball to be Onto, in Any Event!

It's Getting Ever Bad and Worse! Our Enemies Only Ever Gather! We're Going to Have to be Really Facing and Fighting them Someday! Some of that Someday is Right Now.

Let's Really Start Working ALL OUT!, -To Protect and Defend Ourselves!

I'm Afraid it's Gonna Be and Get That Bad! Sorry to Have to Say!

So Let's just Be On with What we Gotta Be On To!!!

We Do NOT Need some of our Personnel, Adversely Setting U.S. Back!, -on This Crucially Vital Track!

My Personal Predicament Perhaps Continues. I'll be Hopefully Finding some Things Out in a Meeting Tomorrow. Depending on What Such is, -Hinges my Possible Predicament. As I Spoke of in the First "Program Note" within this Thread. I am Well Perhaps Really in a Bind and Spot! In case this rather Clear Matter Hasn't Dawned on Some. I've Got No Reply yet, as in Ways is People's Right. But I can Tell from the Views Column, that a Fairly Good Number of Us have been Reading Such. I am Hopeing that Things will Turn Out All Right Enough in Tomorrow's Meeting, -that I Don't Have to as Much as "Survival Strike Out on my Own!" But Tomorrow's Developments Shall have me so See! Again, -I Am Hoping for a Best! Here and Elsewhere, -I shall Post When and If I Can.

Whichever of the Two Breaks Personally for me, -Whats Gonna Happen Nationally with U.S., -I'm Afraid is as I Say and Fear it is!

As Another Fellow American, -This Will be Affecting me in One Way or Another too. I Want to Be "Survivi-Prepared" at such Situation and Time! I Urge Likewise of All Others, -Including All of Us Here. [color:"black"] [/color] [email]ScottRezaLogan[/email]

On my Personal Predicament. -Today's Meeting went Quite All Round Well! And so I Don't Think I have to Worry about Going Out to Outright Survive! Fortunately. Not in the Immeadiate or Near Future, Not for a While, Perhaps Not Ever.

I Continue to Beleive that my Sister's Suppositions Don't Apply. For the Very Most Part or Entirely.

But the Meeting (which I mentioned in my Previous Post within this Thread) and Such Went Quite All Round Well.

And Coupled with my Expanding my Customer Base in my Present Small Cleaning Business, (I Do Think that That / a Regular Job, would be Enuff, -but She Thinks What She Thinks, and I Still Live with Her under her Roof), -I Think that I'm Going to Get Firmly Established on my Way, and be All Right! (Those who have Read my Profile would be somewhat Familiar with this).

I Fortunately Don't Think I Now have to Go Out and Survive, -Before I, Relative Newcomer to our Field that I am, -has Got his Equipment Act Together!

Now to Get some Solid Financial Ground Under my Feet, to Further Avert any Other Future Need to Go Out There and "Survive Survive"!

Of course, -in the Meantime, -I'll Continue my Survival Self Education and Preps. In It's Own Right / In Any Event.

And with What I Believe May Quite Well be Coming Down onto our World and National Scene, -Survival Knowledge and Preps are a Pretty Important Front Burner Matter!, -Right There.

There is some Possibility that We in America and the West may yet Pull Out Ahead of the Curve.

May we Do So while we yet Can, -We're Gonna Have To!

In *some* Ways, Some Things *may* Not Turn Out as Bad as I Often Realistically Fear.

But with my Continually Only Hearing of How the Islamic and Arab World Hates / Opposes / Differs With / Despises U.S. / And Etc. "All the More", and "More Than Ever Before"!, Etc, -I Think that Prospects for U.S. here in the Free World / West, -Honestly Don't Look All that Good!

So I Think some Tuffer and Tighter Times could Very Well be a Coming!

If I Don't Have to Survive Presently Relative to my Personal Predicament, -I and Others may Well Have to Survive in Times to Come. Relative to All Round World Situations.

We Simply've Got to Be Strong! And Resolved and Alert! We've Got to Have a Great Resources Reservoir, in which to Draw Upon!

Along With a Sticking to Doing!, -Those Six "We Must Do's", that I Spoke On.

We Can't Afford to Scrape and Skimp! Though we Must Judiciously Watch Costs, -We Can't be Tempted to Try to Do Everything here on the Cheap!

We've Got to Accord Ourselves All the Slack and Running Room we Can! Anything Less!, -Anything Less than our Best!, -May Just Not Cut It or Do! We're in a "Make It or Break It!" / "Life or Death" Survival Situation! These are the Sort of Stakes we Now Find Ourself Under.

We Certainly Don't Want a World where an Aged Osama and Co., -Celebrates at our Expense!, in Philadelphia's Independence Hall and Mall!

We *Are* Really Up Against such Possibilities and Prospects. Let U.S. NOT just Let that Happen!

So Survive then, -Yes! I'm Glad I Most Likely Don't Have to Do so Right Now!

Those Soldiers of Our's who are Guilty of the Wrong Abuses toward Iraqi Prisoners, -Come from my General Area, -About Two Counties Over. They're being from Fayette County / Uniontown, -May have something to Do with it! Knowing Fayette County as I Do. And with All of Uniontown's / Fayette County's Good and Admirable Points, Still Notwithstanding.

Also, While I Abhor and Disapprove of the Abuses Itself, -A Silverish Lining in this, May be that such Tuffness may be One of the Only Things Many of our Enemies Respect and Understand! They Do Often Laugh at our Magnanimous and Humane Softness!

Still, I Cannot and Do Not Approve of the Abuses Itself.

Interesting that at this Very Same Time, -Great (though yet Watchful) Humanity Continues to be Practiced at Guantanamo! I can be Pretty Sure of That. If America and Americans were "Iraqedly Rotten Across it's Core"!, -as Many of our Detractors are Quite Likely to Beleive, -Then Guantanamo Shouldn't be any Better! Yet I am Sure that it is Mountains and Miles Better!

I Think that the International Red Cross Is / Has Been Around, -to Verify this for Themself. It's a Wonder that they Were'nt also at Iraq's Abu Ghraib! They're being Present there now, -should Verify that we have Now Put a Stop to Abuses by Some of our Personnel.

Our President, at Least in Many Respects, Rightly Apologized Today. Though perhaps he Shud Have Done so Several Days Ago.

And he is Right for Keeping Rumsfield On. All Things there Considered. Rumsfeld is Quite Probably Not Knowledgeable Nor Guilty, of any of the said Abuses anyway. Moreover, Rumsfeld is as Priceless to our All Round Cause now!, -as MacArthur was to U.S. in the Pacific and the Phillipines! You Don't just Toss such Priceless Assets as That, -Out the Window! Especially at Times such as This! Rumsfield, Rice, Powell, Among Others, -We've Got Ourself a Mighty Great Team! Let's Keep Them that Way!

Furthermore, -To Can someone like Rumsfield, is Certainly Going to Give Encouragement to our various Enemies! A First Grader would Know that! Why is it that Many American Adults seem Not to Know So?!

Which is Worse? And Which would we Rather?

To perhaps Not Totally Serve the Niceties of Civil Liberties, Ethnic Profiling, and Such, but in the Process Save Another U.S. City or Skyscraper.

Or to Place Top Priority on Not Offending Matters such as Civil Liberties and Ethnic Profiling, -Yet Again Losing Another Major Skyscraper or Urban Area to Another such Attack, in our Process?!

It Very Much Often Comes Down to such a Choice. This Choice and Matter Shud be Fairly Obvious. Let U.S. Not have Another Cold Shower Reminder! [color:"black"] [/color] [email]ScottRezaLogan[/email]

I'm glad to hear that your meeting went well today.

Scott:

To the best of my knowledge, you consistently write some of the longest posts on here.

Might you be able to improve your professional and monetary position by using the time you could save by writing short posts and spending the saved time pursuing more buisness?

Good luck!

Bountyhunter

To TG, -Thank You.

And to Bountyhunter, -You might have some Point there. And Thanks for your Good Luck Wish. [color:"black"] [/color] [email]bountyhunter[/email]

It's Pretty Obvious. $100,000 in Gold to Bag Leading Americans in Guess Where, -Iraq.

He Himself is Tying Himself to Iraq. Who says Iraq and Al Qaida are somehow Separate?

America's being Kicked in the Shin once again, -When are we Gonna Realize It? We Correctly Realize a Lot of Things. At Long Last Anyway. But More than a Few Things Amazingly Keep Going on By U.S.!

Find that Guy as we Did saadam and sons, -and Put a Sock in his Periodically Outrage Spouting Mouth. [color:"black"] [/color] [email]ScottRezaLogan[/email]

What was that old saying? "Those who don't study history are doomed to repeat it?" The Empire of Great Britain suffered a not dissimilar outrage when a rebellious Indian group slaughtered unarmed british civilians and troops who had disarmed under promise of protection. The leader of that incident fled to the northern 'bandit country' and never was captured. How many armchair pundits ( another indian word) aside from our british members know who, and what I am even talking about? Iraq has bled precious resources from Afghanistan and his capture, and in our utter ineptitude bred more terrorists like the mythical Hydra's heads. With our present policy of intervention in Haiti, Venezuela and Iraq, Osama will live to be an old man. We need to be a Republic again, and not Pax Roma.

In 1916 Black Jack Pershing and the US Army crossed the border into Mexico to track down Pancho Villa, we ain't caught him yet either!
gino <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

And from that atrocity of history came the story of "Gunga Din", and the poem, "The Charge of The Light Brigade".

I do not read poetry as a rule, but "The Charge of The Light Brigade" always brings tears to my eyes to imagine men so valiant and so blinded by thoughts of revenge and justice that they would willingly charge to thier deaths.

Bountyhunter

Thanks for your Observation and Thought.

I'm Not so Sure, however, that our Iraq Efforts have Truly Drained Resources from our Efforts in the Afghan Theatre. And even if to some Extent so, -It's perhaps Not to the Extent your Average "War Opposer" typically Thinks.

Having said that, -I Uncomfortably Think that we are All Too Often Operating on Too Much of a Shoestring.

As to New Terrorist / Enemy Hydra Heads forming, in Connection with our Iraq Efforts. -There may be some Material Truth to that, at the Moment.

But I Liken this to our WW-2 Efforts. We could Not Fight Only in the Pacific, -Only in Response to Pearl Harbor. The September 11th of Their Day. A Larger Enemy Axis Did then Exist, as it Exists Again Now. (However Less Formally). We Have to Fight and Be On Guard Multi-Front, Multi-Theatre, Globally. Saadamistic Iraq was and is a Major Part of that.

Further Theatres and Fronts are Often Neccessary in a Larger War and Picture. Additional "Hornets Nests" can get Stirred Up in the Process. That's Part of the Way a Larger Conflict, War, Struggle, or Task Often is. It was so in WW-2, and it is Similarly so Now. (Though in a Broad Sense, WW-2 was more of a Classic Military Operation, Whereas Today's One is more of an Irreagular, Guerilla, One) Still, the Same Broad Principle and Comparison Holds, that I'm Making.

ON THE IRAQI WMD TIE-INS HERE, -

WMDs being Overwhelmingly Not Yet Found there, -Does Not Automatically Mean that they Weren't there. Or that they Aren't Now Dangerously Somewhere. Evidence and Proof is Overwhelming that he Had them, and was Ardently Working on them! They've either been Hidden, Transferred and Transported, or Destroyed.

We of course Have some Very Dangerous Enemies in the World that these could Have been Transported To. (In Whole or in Part).

But Even to "Only" Destroy them, in the Last Few Years Prior to the recent Persian Gulf War # Two, -would be a Nice "Jank You in your Face!" Kind of Touch, -from saadam and Co. At U.S. It's Every Bit Like Him and his Kind!

If the World's Watching, and you Can't Exactly Continue Developing them in the Way you Once Did, -Then Throw some Unexpected Mud in their Face! By Doing so in *This* Sort of an "If you Can't Beat Them, -Join Them!", Sort of Way. To Them, it was "Fun" Developing them while the World was Very Much Not Watching, and was Letting Em Get Away with it. We Go and Shine the Spotlight though, and Keep Holding his Feet to the Fire, -and It's then No Longer "Fun and Stuff" to Do so! What then Becomes "Fun" for them, -is to Stick U.S. with an Apparent "They're Not Even There!" Anyone who Draws from this that "They Therefore were *Never* Even There", is Dangerously Mis-Informed.

I Have the Really Uncomfortable Feeling that these "Missing" Iraqi WMDs are Going to Someday Come Back to Haunt U.S.!

In Trapping, the Animal (Ideally) Only Knows that It is Trapped, -Once the Cage Door Slams Down Behind It! Too Late Then!, -to Finally Find Out!

We Too, may Someday so Learn, of the Fate of the "Missing" Iraqi WMD Weaponry!

They are in Great Liklihood Somewhere! Either Destroyed and/or Hidden Somewhere!

To now Go Soft on Iraq, just because we Havn't Yet Found them, -is Like that Enticed Animal being Soothingly Lulled into the Trap!

Someone or Someones in this World Knows the True Fate and Status of those "Missing" Iraqi WMDs! And Most Disturbingly and Chillingly, -Such People, -Whoever they Are, -Are *Not* on our Side!

If Not a Matter of their Having Been Destroyed, -Then They are Somewhere! Definitely Somewhere! It's Bad and Dangerous Enuff if they're yet Squirrelled Away somewhere in Iraq. Its Far More Concerning and Chagrinative, if Any Number of them have been Transported Anywhere Beyond Iraq's Borders!

To Some of our Real Enemies Out There! To of course Osama, Al Qaida and Co. To Others Cut Out of their Same General Piece of Cloth. To Even Others. What if They were Transferred to Red China, for Example?! Possibilities here are Not *Only* Limited to Al Qaida and Co, or their Likes. Of course Osama and Al Qaida are our Primemost Sworn Enemies in this World Today. We Certainly Don't Want to Chance those "Missing" Iraqi WMDs Working their Way over to Them, -Nor to Anyone Else. Nor Do we Want them just to Continue to Sit Hidden, somewhere in Iraq. So it Was and Is Neccessary to Have Militarily Moved on Once saadamistic Iraq, as Part of this Entire Larger Effort and Picture.

Yes, the Place is Now Crawling with Al Qaida and their Likes. They are certainly Proximate to any Hidden WMDs there. But this is Part of the "Neccessary Hornet's Nesting", that I Describe Elsewhere here. Which we Must over Time Wrestle Down, this with Good to Great Manpower and Resources to Back Us Up! This Does Not Change How it was Still Initially Neccessary, -to Make a Military Move on Iraq, as a Crucial Part of this Whole Larger Effort, and Picture.

Whether Iraq Bred and/or Not, Osama and Co. are Definitely Seeking and Working on WMDs Themselves! Whereever they can Source or Develop such from!

With Iraq being such a Fertile Breeding Ground for Such Things, -It IS such a Vital Theatre and Front, -in our All Round Fight for our Very Survival! That we Now Find Ourselves Engaged in.

Do we Really Want to just Trust, -that an *Un*Vanquished saadam Wouldn't Someday and Somehow, Give / Transfer These WMDs Over to Them?! He may Already Have Done So, -Before his Vanquishment.

As we Had to also Fight WW-2 in North Africa, Italy, Normandy / France, Over Berlin in Maximum Effort Bombing Missions, and Europe and Elsewhere in General.- -So we Too Must Now Take a Global, Long Range Survey, -of What "We Must Do"! -Beyond Only September 11th Per Se, and it's Afghan Response!

Iraq is Such a Part of This! It just Very Much All Round Is! We Gotta Get In at that Hornet's Nest!

And of course with Adequate and Sufficient Manpower and Resources! And of course also with Alertness, Resolve, and Unflagging Determination, Etc! We'll See How Well we either Remember or Forget our September 11th Experience, -Along with it's Lessons!

I Think there Could Be More Iraqi - Qaida Type Connections, than we'd Care to Entertain! This Even Before our Iraqi Involvement! This is NOT Something that we Can Afford to Just Kindly Trust On! In Abscence of Outright "Incontrovertable Proof"!

So our Iraq Efforts ARE Such a Part of this All!

GENERAL END OF THE IRAQI WMD SUBPORTION.

Now of course when you Get into a Hornet's Nest, -The Hornet's are Gonna be Stirred Up and Activated. Ruffly Similar Things Occurred in our NON Pacific Theaters of our WW-2 Task. But we Kept At It!, -as Back Then it was a Case where we Neccessarily Must. And we Thereby eventually Wrestled the Whole Thing Down! We Had a Rich Reservoir of Resources and Manpower to Draw Upon. We Did Not Entertain Trying to Do so on the Cheap. We Had and Held that Crucial Sci-Tech Lead!, -Exemplified in the Manhattan Project and in Many Other Areas! We *Didn't* "Dah!" or "Dorp" Around in That! In Retrospect, -We Couldn't Afford to Dilly or Dally Around There or Elsewhere, Anyway! So Good Thing we Didn't!

We Globally Got Into that Day's Hornet's Nests, and Neutralized Them Down! It Wasn't Easy, both in Itself, -and with Reference to the Previous 30s Lollygagging Around!, that we Did.

We Now Have our Own Postwar type of 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s!, type Lollygagging Around! We Still Do Much of the Same Type of Lollygagging Around, Here in the 2000s, even After Sept. 11th! Where within such Lollygagging, -We've just Let Many an Osama Type Pandora's Box out there, Grow, Thrive, and Fester!

And so Now we Really've Got our Work Cut Out for U.S.! And We've Got to Really Forget About Old Style Softyish Slipping and Dragging!, -and Work Like Dogs at This!

One of the First Things we Must Now Do, is to Get Off of various Superfluous, Silly Stuff! We Happen to be in a Life and Death Struggle and War! And Not Swimming in an Era of Peace and Well Being. In case Anyone's Forgotten or Hasn't Noticed. To Get Off the Silly Jackson type Stuff, Royal Family Antics, and So On. -And Onto the Very National Security and Survival Stuff! That we Must be About and Doing! Fully and Lastingly! Like Frank said in his Song, -"Not in a Shy Way"!

Like a Kid Doesn't Have to be Told How, Nor Coaxed to Play! Generally Speaking, our Publics at Large shud Live, Think, Eat, Sleep, and Breathe!, their Very National Safety, Security, and Survival! Until our Task and Job is Truly Successfully Done. This is the Spirit! That we Shud All be Having about Ourselves!

Our Task is Now Cut Out for U.S., and we've Now Got to Work like Dogs at It! In some Real Catch Up Ball! Catch Up from Behind! Thanks to Decades of various Dangerous Slipping, Dragging, and Lollygagging!

In this Same Way, Had we Built Up our B-17 Fleet in the *30s*, -as some Lonely but Wise Voices were Calling For!, -Then How Much Easier and Better would our Air Theater Tasks Have Been! When the Unavoidable Neccessity of that War, -Finally Came Around! Instead, we Alarmingly Began with some 30 or so B-17s, -Many Wiped Out on the Ground in those First Post Pearl Harbor Japanese Attacks on the Phillipines! We then Had to Really Work Like Dogs! Before we could have our Great Air Attacks upon places like Schweinfurt, Regensburg, Ploesti, the D-Day Normandy Front, the Bremerhaven U-Boat Pens, Hamburg, Dresden, Tokyo, and Berlin.

If there's a Lesson from History that we Don't Want to Have to Repeat, -It's to NOT Bring Ourselves Up so Dangerously Short! *Before* so Vital and Imperative a Task!

Like a Squirrel who Only Begins Belatedly Collecting Nuts, when the Cold of Fall and Winter Starts Coming On! When Summer Sun!, was the Time to Be On to That!

So Iraq is Indeed a Hornet's Nest. And More Hornets are being variously Stirred Up There!

(Personnel Doing such Abuses as have Lately been Done by Some, -Hurts and Doesn't Help. Thruout History, however, it's Been the General Rule, that Each Side is Fully Brutal to the Other as it Pleases, and it's a Matter of Who of the Two "Strongs Out", in the End. Nowadays, however, Higher Noble Morals, are being Used as a "Weapon", by Some. A Convenient and Selective Weapon. Still, our Abuses Done by Some is Wrong.)

We're just Gonna Have To, -WITH ENUFF MANPOWER and RESOURCES!, -Come to Wrestle this Thing Down! With Such Rich and Ready Resources to Draw Upon, -This CAN Eventually Be Done!

But We Have No Choice, -But to Stay our Course, in Iraq and Elsewhere! We Had No Choice to Go In to Begin With, -We Have No Choice About Departing Now! Our Well Strengthed, Goodly Positioned Enemies out there, -Give U.S. No Choice but to Fight, -in Any Event! So Let's just Be Fully Onto It!

The U.S., (Truly) Great Britain, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Israel, Our Great Cultural Heritage on the European Continent, South Korea, the Free Republic of China on Taiwan, the Pacific Greatness and Contributions of Japan, Our Great Fellow Latin American Neighbors to our South, and Others, -We're All in This Together! We've Ultimately Got a Really Great Team. With Such Great and Spandiferous Contributions that can be Made by such Members! Each in their Own Unique, Great Way! Even a Postage Stamp Sized Member such as the Vatican, -is a Towering Moral Force. We Each can Do So Much of the Grand Total on our Own. Think How Much More we can Jointly Do!, -Acting in Concert!, -Against Our Common Enemy and Foe! So Let's Be About It and Do So! We're Simply Gonna Have To in any Event, -I'm Afraid!

So We've Got to Do it with Enuff Long Term Determination and Oomph! Thats All there's so to It!

Some Additional Hornets will be Stirred Up in the Process. That Often Can't be Helped. But that's NO Reason, Call, or Excuse, -For Not Being Onto or At It!

As we also Had to Fight in Theaters *Other* than just the Pacific, -So Too Must we Fight and Stand Guard in Places *Other* than just Afganistan, -and *Other* than with Only Enemy Foes such as Al Qaida Alone! Iraq, both Pre and Post saadam, is Simply One of These!

What if Churchill were Again and Today among U.S.?! He'd of course be Urging U.S. to Stand and Fight!, in His Same Bulldog Spirit of Before! Let's be Similarly of his Spirit and Determination Now!

As to our Ideally Being our Republic, -the True Enemies at our Gates, -Do Laugh at U.S. for that, and Use that Against U.S.! We of course Still Should Remain a Genuine Democracy and Republic! But Keep the Earlier Part of this Paragraph in Mind too.

If it Comes Down to Mortal Enemies Out There, Who Will just Not Give Up in any Event, -Then we're Gonna Have to also be, -a Pax Romana. (Pax Americana / Freedomiana). And May we Be and Remain a Noble, Upper Spirited, Benevolent One, -in any such Neccessary Circumstance. As I'm Very Sure we Would. Though I Acknowledge that we Do Have to Watch the Actions of Some Loose Apples among U.S..

I'm Concerned about Areas of Too Much Arbitrary Governmental Power too! But on National Life or Death Survival Matters, -I Know Where to Place my Larger Priorities.

Now Let me Get Off of this Lengthy Enuf Piece, (In the Course of Addressing This here), and Back Onto Taking some of Bountyhunter's Suggested Advice.

When the Very Safety, Security, and Survival of our Country and Free System is at Stake, however, -I Feel that if it Takes More than Just a Few Words to Say some Crucially Important Things there, -Then it so Does.

This is One of America's and Freedom's Handicaps and Problems! This Often Undue Preoccupation with Brevity. Thats One of the Very Things I'm generally Talking About here. Which the West shud Start Seeing of Itself. Relative to our Task, and Relative to our Different Thinking Enemies.

Still, I Do Strive to Say Things in as Few, Brief, and Basic Words, as Possible. So now, (After Basically Surveying some More of our Site), -Let me be Back onto some Other Things.

I'm Going to Try to Go even More Sparingly in Posting here, -so that this Thread Doesn't Start Growing Too Long. New and Serious / Major Developments, as Surely Will a Come!, -May Present Something of a Challenge to That! As at Times it Already Has! [color:"black"] [/color] [email]Chris Kavanaugh[/email]

Interesting quotes.
I believe it was George Orwell who is credited with "Those who study history..." quote.
Whilst I tend to agree with you on your sentiments on US policy (and to a lesser degree UK policy), Its worth while remembering most superpowers in history have been reviled and attacked. (The Romans, the British- at the height of thier empire- all fought many battles to keep thier territories)
It doesn't necessarily follow that all that they stood for and achieved was bad, or thier intentions evil. I think only time will tell whether present US policy is for the better or not.
Back to quotations - Of the thousands of quotes available, it is easy to find one that has meaning in the present day.
For example

"History is the interpretation of the significance that the past has for us"
Johan Huizinga (1872–1945), Dutch historian

"History shows that there are no invincible armies"
Josef Stalin (1879–1953), Soviet leader.

"History ... is, indeed, little more than the register of the crimes, follies, and misfortunes of mankind."
Edward Gibbon (1737–1794), British historian

Isn't history wonderful.

EDIT
Wondering what was mean't by "Pax Roma". The Fontana Dictionary of Modern thought had this:

"Pax Americana
The concept of peace imposed by North American rule or, more broadly, the settlement of conflict on US terms and in accordance with US interests. A variation on the term pax romana, it has been used in recent years primarily with reference to crises in Central America"

Prehaps pax Americana would have been more approriate?

Regarding your Edward Gibbon Quote example, -I Think he should have Included the Word "Successes", -Alongside his "Crimes, Follies, and Misfortunes", of Mankind. My Personal Opinion. Quotes are of course Quotes, and What One has Said is of course What One has Said! So I'm Not Trying to Disrespect or Disrupt Anyone's Quote. But I Do Beleive that History is also a Collection and Compilation of our Successes and Such! And Not Only of our Foibles and Failures. [color:"black"] [/color] [email]joblot[/email]

Another perhaps relevant quote :
"History" is written by the winners........ (don't ask me who..)

Joblot, Chris, et al.--

It was George Santayana who said “Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.”

Among the many things I collect (for some unfathomable reason, my wife pronounces that “accumulate”) are quotes…here are a few more:

“After you’ve heard two eye-witness accounts of a motor accident, you begin to worry about history.” -- John McNab

“Historians can sometimes explain, or at any rate discuss, the immediate causes of some great event. Beyond that, they can do little more than arrive at the platitude that every generation is, to some extent, responsible for what happens afterwards. In this way, we can finally reach the preposterous conclusion that the ancient Romans were responsible for the First World War, when they failed to civilize the Germans. This is sometimes called learning from history.” -- A. J. P. Taylor
-----------------------

The Pax Romana , or “Roman Peace”, was a period of approximately 200 years after Rome firmly established itself as the “superpower” of its day. I’m unsure of the generally accepted dates, but IIRC, it was from about 50 BC to AD150, or thereabouts. Rome, with her far-flung legions, had defeated all comers, and at the time, was essentially invincible. Any attempt to disturb the peace was met with a crushing blow from an iron fist. This was an early example of the modern platitude “peace through superior firepower”. <img src="images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I don’t know if there truly has been a Pax Americana —certainly not one of any length.

David

Sorry to again Comment on a Development so Early. But I Must Comment on This. *They of Al Qaida just BeHeaded One of U.S.!*

I Thought their Latest Tape just Before this One was Outrageous Enuff! And it Is! ("Bin Laden Again Spoke,-What he Said").

But This One of Course Tops and Takes it to New Lows!

It's an Al Qaida Tape, if Not specifically from Bin Laden himself. Our Fellow American Captive is Shown, a Usual Type Al Qaida Statement is Read, -from a Masked, Fist or Weapons Raising Bunch of them. (Though This particular One is Not Fist or Weapons Raising, but at Least One is Holding a Weapon)

And Though my Newscast Didn't Show his Actual Beheading Itself, -Word on This and Other Newscasts is that the Al Qaida Tape Not Only Mentions, but Actually Shows, the BeHeading in Itself!

Abuses in Iraq by Some Americans are Given as the perhaps Convenient Justification.

Now I Think People on Both Sides Should be Careful, -*Not* to Get into an Escalating Cycle of Revenge, Retaliation, and Reprisal! Thats the Mutual Problem Cycle the Isrealis and Palestinians Often Find Themselves Locked Into! (Value Judgements concerning Who's Right or Wrong in that, -Not here Being Made). Let U.S. Try to Avoid Falling Into the Same Trap! To a Substantial Extent at Least, -Some of the Classic "Turn the Other Cheek", can be In Order. We of the Free World West can in Many Ways, -Take the Lead in Being the Better Man! Of course there's the Danger of them Misinterpreting that as Weakness too! And in No Way shud such Kinder Gestures on our Part, -Soften or Weaken this Fight for our Life!

But a Certain Measure of Retaliation and Response, is also in Order, -for an Outrage such as This!

Just as Regards their Actions Toward our Fallujah Four!, -Not All that Long Ago. (We Shud have perhaps Done Less Negotiating / Pullbacks, there).

Another Recent Outrageous Development!, -which somehow Got By "My Occasion to Mention", -is a Statement Put Out by the al Sadr Crowd. Much the Same as the Recent Bin Laden Bounty Placeing Outrage! As Concerns our Troops. Even More Particularly Galling in This!, -is What their Statement Said in Reference to our Female Soldiers! Which was that Anyone Who Captures a Female U.S. Soldier, -Can Keep Her as his Personal Slave! You Know Whatall that can Entail! THESE ARE OUR WOMENFOLK! We Shud be Alarmed and Up in Arms! One of the Things I was Most Disgusted About concerning Sept. 11th, -was What they Did to our Stewardesses up there!

"Peace Thru Strength!", "Armed to the Teeth!", "By Force of Arms!", and "A Defense Second to None!" Love those Phrases! And They certainly Very Very Much Apply!, -in These New Circumstances and Times!

God if the Peaceniks were in Charge, -We'd Never Have a War! <img src="images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> Such from They Does Not Bode Well, -When it Comes to a *Neccessary* War! Thats the Difference that they Never Seem to Know or Get! With the Society and Public Listening to Them, When it Does, -That's Much the Same as if They were in Charge!

But we Must also be Careful Not to be Led and Egged On Into various Fights, -by them! I've Got to Thinking Lately, that Sept. 11th was perhaps in Part an "Egg U.S. On Into a Fight" Attempt, on their Part. While that Certainly Called for our various Strong Responses, and Ever Watchfulness, -We Shud be Careful about Cases where they may be Leading U.S. Down a "Belligerent Garden Path", to Suit their Own Ends. That said and Kept in Mind, We Must Stay Alert, Strong, and Not Soften or Weaken either!

uday and his fedayeen got a Lot of their Jollies out of Beheading People! This Doesn't Prove some of their Involvement in Today's Outrage. But it is some Circumstantial Evidence which Could Point towards their Involvement or Direction.

It certainly Occurred About Iraq. And it Did Occur Within Iraq as well. And there is a Meetup and Melding between the Two Enemy Groups, over there.

However Done, -The Outrage was Still Done! *On* U.S.! By They of that Other, Enemy, Side!

In a Way, It's now *They* who've Stupidly Done Something to Disserve their Own Interests, and World Image! Via this True and Glaring Outrage!

While I Think that a "Better Manned, -Breaking of the Cycle of Back and Forth Revenge", -Has to Enter into the Picture at Some Point, -Without Any Weakening in This our Fight for our Very Survival!, -I also Think that Today's Particular (In Our Face) Outrage!, -is Something that Must be Duly and Definitely Responded to! And Not just Go Un-Answered!

They and the Rest of the World are Again Watching! And we Can't Afford to Have them Misinterpreting our Response as Weakness! Notwithstanding How They Criticize our various Tough Responses.

Weakness or it's Appearance is Worse! Were we to Bug Out now from Iraq, -We Havn't Seen Anything of the Contempt and Disrespect!, -That We'd be Viewed With for It!!!!! All Today's Anti-American Talk as Regards our Tuffness, -Will Look like Child's Play in Comparison! Don't U.S. Fall for that Soft Bait!!! Weakness again is Even Worse!

It can be said Truthfully and/or Not so Truthfully, -that the Iraqi Abuses by Some of our Own, -are Behind Today's Outrage. While it would Certainly Have Been Better, and Proper, -for Some of our Personnel to Have NOT Done Such! -It's also a Fact that They on our Enemy Side, Conveniently Milk this Up, for All it's Worth! They are Not so Nobly Angelic, -as They may now be Making Themselves Out to be!

Even in the Abscence of such Impropriety by Some of U.S., -Our Enemies Likely would Have Done such Outrage anyway, -sometime on their Own! Just Like the Bombs they Plant. And the Planes they Crash into Occupied Buildings. Now since Some of our Personnel just Stupidly and Wrongly Handed them One, -They of our Enemy Side are of course Playing it Up for All it's Worth. But is it Purely a Genuine Outrage over What Some of our Personnel have Wrongly Done?! Not So Much! And Not So Fast! From These who Love and Want to Die Anyway!

Again in Sumup, -We Must Respond to this Outrage! But Without Indefinitely Joining our Enemy, in a Recurring Cycle of Revenge upon Revenge!

It's at Least been Said, by one of the Abu Ghraib Abusers, that some of such was Done in Response to What was Done, or May Have been Done, -Toward our Jessica Lynch. This is at Least Understandable Enough. Go Back to the Time when it at Least Well Seemed, -as though She was Raped. While such a Reprisal Still Isn't Right, -It was at Least a Good Bit Understandable.

We Say we're Responding to Outrages such as September 11th. They Say They're Responding to our Response. It can Keep Going Back and Forth. Which Came First here, the Chicken or the Egg? Who is More or Less Right, Who is More or Less Wrong? And On What? Who Essentially Threw the First Punch?

In Sum, in my Opinion, -They are Quite Wrong for Many a Thing. But we in the West weren't exactly so Noble in our Decades Long Lollygagging, Often Not Being at our General Moral Best, and So On. I Do Not however Buy, our Opponents Longstanding Conspiratorial Charges, that we Start Wars Thruout the World, and So Forth.

One of our Fellow Americans was Be-Headed by Them, -Today!!!! I Think and Know that This is Certainly an Outrage Indeed!

(Bounty, -I am Nominally Responding to you here, -in Order to Properly Place This, in the Continueing Thread) [color:"black"] [/color] [email]bountyhunter[/email]

Our U.S./Coalition Forces Achieved a Successful Rescue Today or Yesterday, of Several Italians and a Polish!

These were the same Italians earlier Kidnapped, of Which One had been Earlier and Outrageously Killed. I Heard Something Back Then, -of Something on the Order of his Saying, "Look at How an Italian Regards This!,...".(In Reaction to Some Galling Outrage as his Captors back then Did). And that He evidently Paid a Supreme Sacrifice for That. They are Security Guards, And Evidently He may have been, "A Security Guard's Security Guard!" (In the Same Sense you Hear Someone Say that Somebody is a Soldier's Soldier!).

In any Event, -Several of his Comrades, -*Were* Successfully Rescued Today!

And a Number of their Former Captors, -are now Captives Themselves!, of our Coalition. Talk About Setting Something Straight and Right!

I Think I've Heard of Another Fallujah Four Outrage, -as Having Occurred Towards Four of U.S. in Tommy Hamill's Convoy! (The Guy who Successfully Escaped!, -Several Weeks Ago.).

And Also I've Since Heard of at least One among Jessica Lynch's Party, -as Having Been Similarly and Outrageously Murdered / Executed!

Other Examples may Well Exist. Others too have been Kidnapped.

Rather than Serve as Tail Turning Ammo for the Peace Preferrers, -These Outrages Should Only Get our Dander Resolve and Determination Up All the More! Go in There with *More* Determination, Personnel, Resources, Resolve, and Forces!, -Not Less! And Over Time to Thus Envelop this Enemy and Problem!, -and So Wrestle It Down!

If we Tend to Squeam Off at these sorts of Outrages!, -Then our Avowed Mortal Enemies are Only Gonna be Tempted to Do Such All the More! -To Tip U.S. and Our Resolve Over! Weakness on Our Part!, -Only and Ironically Begets More!, -of the Very Things some of U.S. are Trying to Run From!!!

We Cannot be "Fallers Apart at the Slightest Breeze!", or "Runners at the First Raindrop!".

If or Where More Troops and Resources are Needed, -Then Go In with Such More! Not Bug Out Less! Talk About Running the Wrong Way Down the Track!

We've Had a Successful Escape! And Now a Successful Rescue! And Earlier, -a Successful Capture / Sacking, of saadam and his sons! Who Says that Successes and Good News and Developments, Never Occur in that Place!?

We Should be Aware Of, and Justifiably Proud, -in Today's Rescue! It's Not just Minor Page 50 News! [color:"black"] [/color] [email]ScottRezaLogan[/email]