#247764 - 06/30/12 06:35 PM
Re: how do you deal with panic attack?
[Re: Stephen]
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Registered: 03/15/01
Posts: 518
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With respect, I disagree with some of what Saniterra posted: " The flip side of the coin is the "fight". This is essentially a rage of a magnitude that most people never experience in a lifetime of getting angry and those who have experienced rage of this order usually experience it only once or twice in a lifetime. For a person with this version of the anxiety disorder, such rage is experienced much more often - as often as weekly. These people are capable of as much destruction of physical objects, including other people, as any adrenalized individual."
Individuals with Panic Disorder (Panic attacks) are less, not more, likely to act out in violent ways. Those who do get violent probably have Intermittent Explosive Disorder(IED) or some other cause of the violent behavior. This disoder (IED) can be comorbid with panic disorder (People with other mental illnesses such as mood or anxiety disorders may be more likely to also have intermittent explosive disorder.) But I'm not aware of any good studies that show that Panic Attacks increment risk of violence, and would be interested in being directed to any studies that show that.
"There is really no way to control the panic attack after it has begun, other than to just sit still, bear it and wait it out."....."Treatment of both manifestations of this anxiety disorder is permanent maintenance of daily doses of tranquilizers."......" As with the "flight" or panic attack malaise, it can be controlled, once started, only by an extreme exertion of will power. In either case, the exertion of will power is only sufficient to essentially self-immobilize the individual."
The use of daily doses of tranquilizers (alprazolam or clonazepam are the typical choices) can be problematic and is not an unchallenged treatment of choice. SSRI and SNRI antidepressant medications are apt to be equally effective, or even more effective if prolonged use of medication is needed. HOWEVER, the use of medications for Panic Disorder is by no means unchallenged in the scientific literature. Behavioral techniques (some published by Gayle Beck, Ph.D.), Cognitive-Behavioral treatments (David Barlow, Ph.D.), ACT techniques (e.g. Kelly Wilson, Ph.D.), and Stress Innoculation Training (Donald Meichenbaum, Ph.D.) are thought to be at least equally effective and likely more effective (than drugs) in the long run at reducing the severity, frequency, and duration of Panic Attacks.
So...if you have panic attacks with enough severity or frequency to be a problem for you...IMHO you should start with a well trained Cognitive-Behavioral Psychologist and give that approach a good try. More likely than not this will be markedly effective; more likely than not in fewer than 14-15 sessions. Only if this isn't effective would I then consider medications.
As to Panic Attacks causing you a problem during a survival situation, I have only anectdotal and not published data, so this is a big FWIW: I've never heard of a person having a panic attack during the actual index event, but rather in the aftermath (typically after the danger is past).
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#247785 - 07/01/12 02:06 AM
Re: how do you deal with panic attack?
[Re: picard120]
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Member
Registered: 02/14/09
Posts: 118
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Find a NLP (Neuro Linguistic Programming) practitioner. They use hypnosis to teach patients other responses to the stimulus. Panicking is just one of many responses to a stimulus. The reason NLP practitions are successful in curing panic attacks so fast and for good (like during the first session) is that they quickly gain access to the part of the brain which forms panic responses and they teach the panicker to re-frame those experiences into harmless memories.
Doctors are about as good at curing panic attacks as they are at getting their patients to lose weight.
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#247814 - 07/01/12 02:41 PM
Re: how do you deal with panic attack?
[Re: GradyT34]
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Registered: 03/15/01
Posts: 518
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Find a NLP (Neuro Linguistic Programming) practitioner. They use hypnosis to teach patients other responses to the stimulus. Panicking is just one of many responses to a stimulus. The reason NLP practitions are successful in curing panic attacks so fast and for good (like during the first session) is that they quickly gain access to the part of the brain which forms panic responses and they teach the panicker to re-frame those experiences into harmless memories.
Doctors are about as good at curing panic attacks as they are at getting their patients to lose weight. Personal reports of successful treatments are nice...and one can't "prove" that something doesn't work, but I'd go with the science if I wanted treatment for panic disorder. There is a strong body of scientific literature (well-designed studies, blind-reviewed research, respected professional journals and publications) that disagrees with you, Grady. Practitioners using evidence-based treatments are effective in treating panic disorder in more cases than not. [I have no idea what the data is for doctors getting patients to lose weight.] As to NLP.... well, if it helped someone you know, that's great. But NLP is not an evidence based treatment for panic disorder. It has been around since the late 1970's, has somewhat morphed into EMDR techniques, and has been studied fairly extensively. With insufficient sound data to support its use for the treatment of Panic Disorder.
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#247825 - 07/01/12 07:39 PM
Re: how do you deal with panic attack?
[Re: NAro]
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Registered: 02/14/09
Posts: 118
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NLP treatment (or its equivalent) for panic disorders does have occasional undesired side effects in that patients are completely cured of having panic attacks, but the underlying disorder reappears as, for instance, mild loose bowels. But even those panic attack patients will tell you to the person that they much prefer having the symptoms of mild gastrointestinal problems rather than severe panic attacks which can happen at any time and at any place, such as while driving over a bridge. Does that paint the picture?
Doctors use, as their remedy of choice in treating panic disorders, hepato-toxic drugs (mood enhancing drugs that can and do kill the liver). Go to any dialysis center and ask how many there were taking anti-depressants, anti-anxiety and anti-psychotic drugs before their liver, kidneys, etc. became so inflamed so as to quit functioning — to the end that they require dialysis or die. Some drugs doctors prescribe for panic attacks can make you want to kill others.
And how many formerly panic disordered patients successfully cured using NLP have died or required dialysis?
If you study the statistics you’ll find that doctors consider having their panic attack patients live the rest of their lives in the drug induced twilight zone - as a success relative to their aggregation of “sound” statistical data.
Some doctors don’t like NLP because it works. Permanently.
Other doctors applaud their patients’ initiative and determination in solving their problem with NLP.
Of course there are various skill levels and competency levels among all NLP practitioners just as there are various skill levels and competency levels among all MDs (medical doctors). Locate a NLP practitioner (or the equivalent) who has a booming practice teaching panic disorder patients to re-frame panic inducing thoughts. With the internet, such a task is no longer impossible.
Grady
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#247863 - 07/02/12 12:31 PM
Re: how do you deal with panic attack?
[Re: GradyT34]
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Registered: 03/15/01
Posts: 518
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O.K. Looks like you and I aren't going to agree, Grady. Here we have two strongly held but different opinions. One of the things I kind of like about ETS is that this kind of disagreement can be respectful. But I don't want to hijack the OP's thread with our debate, so I've no more to add on the treatment of Panic Disorder right now.
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#247874 - 07/02/12 07:21 PM
Re: how do you deal with panic attack?
[Re: picard120]
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Member
Registered: 02/14/09
Posts: 118
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NAro,
I very much appreciate your civility, objectivity and especially your sharing of your insight on critical topics throughout this forum (all of which I hold in high regard). I agree to keep my powder dry as to this thread for the same reason you expressed.
Grady
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#247876 - 07/02/12 08:19 PM
Re: how do you deal with panic attack?
[Re: picard120]
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Old Hand
Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 863
Loc: Southern California
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In response to the OP, there's three ways I've found to deal with potentially panic inducing situations. The first is accepting that there will be problems. The biggest situational stressor's I've experienced are a "now what do I do?" when things did not go according to plan. Things WILL go wrong. That's what adaptability and contingency plans are for.
The second comes from (I think) shooting disciplines: "Slow is smooth and smooth is fast". Taking a couple of seconds to compose yourself before making a decision (STOP, THINK, OBSERVE, PLAN), slow down when taking action.
Lastly, make practice runs. I know this is going to sound cliché, but the more you do it, the less stressful it is. My first time up on stage, I was freaking out. The last time, I just ignored the audience. ********************************************* EDIT: I know that the panic attack offshoot is being shut down, but I had to add my $.02. Been there, done that. You're shaking, sweating, gasping for breath, and feel like there's no room in your chest for your lungs to expand. You just have to wait it out. Find a relatively low stimulation location and just concentrate on breathing. It takes about 1/2 hour to completely ride it out. Qi Gong breathing helps.
_________________________
Hope for the best and prepare for the worst.
The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane
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