This is an interesting topic, but this site is not a TEOTWAWKI forum. We like to base most of our decisions on the presumption that civilization is either something we can get to, or will return to us.

With that in mind I would say that this is a good question to pose in the frame of mind of, "what if I can't store everything I may need?, or enough of what I need?"

To that my answer is that an agile mind often is the best solution when it comes to not being able to have everything you need.

Maybe you can't keep years worth of water. Actually for a years worth of water I am not sure I could keep one year just for me and my dog. Considering that most recommend 1 to 3 gallons per day per person. So Lets play with this for a moment. Let’s say 3 gallons per day for me (I am a heavy drinker) times one year 365 days that is about 1095 Gallons, and that is just for me. Add to it my pooch at about 1 gallon per day and suddenly your over 1300 gallons. I will make no delusions that I could effectively store that much water. But I can create water; I can clean water, and catch rain/snow. So I don't see the need to have a years worth of water on hand, rather a way to clean/make drinkable water.

Not the same scenario when it comes to food. I don't plan on running out and start hunting squirrels and the such after day 30.

Rather I feel more confident that society will re-create itself or return. Meaning that while you may not have electricity for a year for some unknown reason; the community you are in will find a way to get what it needs to survive. I know that The Tsunami victims were without a lot for an extended amount of time and even Tokyo had to lessen its electricity consumption while they tried to figure things out. But, society did find it's way back to those who were struck by that disaster.

I am not saying you should not be self sufficient. Just be self sufficient for an amount of time like play for 60 days. Don't become obsessed with a one year scenario. Just start with one month. Then work up to two.

Just my thoughts

Adam2...from the "Clocktower" 22nd SAS

"we are the Pilgrims,master; we shall go Always a little further...J.E. Flecker

There is value in preparing for shorter-term disruptions. These can do occur. But in the big picture, civilization will keep lurching along and some level of normalcy will be restored.

I do ascribe to a reasonable degree of self-sufficiency, and gently encourage others to do the same. The overall goal is to cultivate resiliency, a cushion to smooth out the bumps in the road.

To some degree, this is about useful skills and hobbies. It's also about financial choices. And having a productive garden, and a good store of food in freezer and pantry. But most crucially, it's about finding personal satisfaction and enjoyment in all of these things.

All this has to fit in with the rhythm of normal, everyday life. There are responsibilities to carry out, work to do and bills to pay. It's the opposite of the head-for-the-hills approach.

The challenge for the OP is to help people see how preparations for unforseen events can enhance enjoyment and satisfaction in normal life.

My 2c.

On survivalist forums, people seem to expect that in the sort of situation you describe, armed gangs will take over. I don't know whether that's true, and as some of you know, I'm like Dagny in that I don't do long term preparation (too much for my budget). What if Humungus shows up with his gang of marauders? Are you prepared to repel an armed invasion by an organized, possibly mechanized group that outnumbers you?

Bingley... it's nice to have the equipment and skill set to undertake the challenge you pose... and at my age and temperment better than the alternative...I'm not fast enough any more to get a Grand Master card, so I'll settle for Limited Master (USPSA)

Hi Jeanette,

Most of my adult life I have been involved in leadership situations to some degree. I have had the benefit of both military and corporate education. Very simply, leadership is getting someone to do what YOU want them to.

If these friends of yours will not cooperate now, they will not cooperate in the future. Leadership may certainly shift at any moment to anyone in a group, so you do not need to concern yourself with exerting your will on anyone else. You seem to be seeking consensus and that is good. Unfortunately, it appears that your friends are not.

I respectfully suggest that you make plans without them. Find folks who WILL work WITH you.

Good luck!

I agree with finn about selecting people who will help and not be a burden. What Tyber doesn't seem to realize is that there people who live in areas where water is scarce and MUST store it. %% gallon drums are great for long term storage if the water is properly treated. If it really hits the fan my intention is to try and ride it out at the ranch. I have a cabin we could go to if neccesary. As for those who say that a disaster won't be that bad, that the community will band together, etc, I say I want to go where you are if it happens. Let's not forget a little rainstorm called Katrina. I was there in the aftermath, looking for family. I saw what happened. But lets say it's an internal problem which arises and and there are no services available. Do you really think people will remain civil when thier kids are starving and they smell stew coming from your home? Or the kiddies are shivering in rags and yours are in goose down or army surplus and warm? I grew up dirt poor (second poorest family in town) and I know what it is to need. To starve. And the thoughts which run through ones head when others have what you need. Just my opinion.

I recently moved out of a horribly impoverished and ill-run city. My preparedness was for me & my family. Safety & security were major concerns. However, after Hurricane Irene struck last summer I was amazed at the decency & humanity of my neighbors.

That said, the goal is to now move to a place more remote than the suburbs and to work towards greater self-sufficiency. TEOTWAWKI may never happen, but infrastructure hiccups do. This need not be a retreat or compound, just a family home in the county.

I want to gather my "tribe" so that my loved ones (kith & kin) are near. Likely enough, it will be me and the children.

I believe that if you have to survive a period of one year without electricity, water, etc., here in the US, then there is basically NO CHANCE that on day 366 things will return to normal. If you have to survive on your own for a year, you better be ready to survive on your own FOREVER. You simply cannot "stock up" enough stuff. You have to plan on other ways to sustain yourself besides stockpiles in the basement.

The way I figure it, the chances of there being a survivable large-scale catastrophe that would keep us away from utilities and the grocery store for more than two weeks are pretty darn remote. It's not something I worry about.

I'm well-prepared for two weeks, and if we could find a source of water that wasn't contaminated we'd be okay for about a month. I figure that with some financial and storage sacrifices we could probably extend that period to two or three months but beyond that we'd really need to move.

For us it would require a huge shift in lifestyle: we'd have to move to a rural area, buy or build a house with quite a bit more storage than we have now, and either store a lot of food and water or have it available from natural resources. I'd have to find a new line of work.