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#247553 - 06/27/12 02:08 AM Agonizing SAR decisions in mall roof collapse
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 3241
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Some of you might not have seen this. On Saturday, a mall roof collapsed over the food court in Elliot Lake, Ontario. The list of reported missing is hovering around 20, though this number is very much in flux.

Search managers are faced with grim, agonizing choices. The structure is so dangerously and unpredictably unstable that following initial efforts, search teams were pulled out for the better part of a day. This despite indications that there was a survivor under the rubble.

More detail in these stories:
http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/06/25/...ng-is-unstable/

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/06/25/elliot-lake-mall-collapse/

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/nati...article4370097/

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/nati...article4370778/

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/06/26/...ay-for-miracle/

EDIT: Here is a story where SAR experts back the "stop work" decision.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2012/06/26/elliot-lake-mall-collapse-rescue-experts.html


Edited by dougwalkabout (06/27/12 02:27 AM)

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#247558 - 06/27/12 05:13 AM Re: Agonizing SAR decisions in mall roof collapse [Re: dougwalkabout]
Roarmeister Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 09/12/01
Posts: 960
Loc: Saskatchewan, Canada
Yeah, the media and the general public went wild crazy when they heard about HUSAR withdrawing from the search. Most people just don't understand the first rule of any responder is to keep yourself safe. It could not have been easy for that decision to be made but the building literally could have collapsed on top of them if they started to move debris around.

UPDATE: The HUSAR team has apparently brought in extra equipment to take some of the weight and debris off the parking garage and are back into the building.

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#247585 - 06/27/12 06:37 PM Re: Agonizing SAR decisions in mall roof collapse [Re: Roarmeister]
ILBob Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 02/05/10
Posts: 776
Loc: Northern IL
the thing is that rooting around in unstable debris could well result in killing a survivor as well as rescuers.
_________________________
Warning - I am not an expert on anything having to do with this forum, but that won't stop me from saying what I think. smile

Bob

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#247586 - 06/27/12 06:41 PM Re: Agonizing SAR decisions in mall roof collapse [Re: dougwalkabout]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3842
Loc: USA
One of the comments to a news story said it took three days to bring in the HUSAR team. Is that right?

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#247593 - 06/27/12 09:12 PM Re: Agonizing SAR decisions in mall roof collapse [Re: chaosmagnet]
thseng Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/24/06
Posts: 900
Loc: NW NJ
Somewhere, somehow, someone is failing to communicate.

If you have to pull back rescuers from under the rubble because it's unstable, that's one thing. Meanwhile you bring the cranes in and proceed to pull the debris off the pile one brick at a time if neccessary. That's not "suspending the rescue effort".

From the way the articles are written and even what the officials are saying, it makes it sound as if they just decided to walk away and leave the whole mess there forever.
_________________________
- Tom S.

"Never trust and engineer who doesn't carry a pocketknife."

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#247594 - 06/27/12 09:49 PM Re: Agonizing SAR decisions in mall roof collapse [Re: thseng]
Teslinhiker Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/14/09
Posts: 1419
Loc: Nothern Ontario
Originally Posted By: thseng
Somewhere, somehow, someone is failing to communicate.

If you have to pull back rescuers from under the rubble because it's unstable, that's one thing. Meanwhile you bring the cranes in and proceed to pull the debris off the pile one brick at a time if neccessary. That's not "suspending the rescue effort".

From the way the articles are written and even what the officials are saying, it makes it sound as if they just decided to walk away and leave the whole mess there forever.


Like millions of my fellow Canadians, I have been following this incident very close since day one. With any rescue mission, the ensuing media race to be the first to "report" is often fraught with misinformation, half truths, rumors and plenty of second and third guessing from far too may armchair experts who have zero firsthand knowledge of the problems the SAR team faced in those dark hours inside that building.

Today, 2 bodies were pulled from the rubble. And now a much different and more realistic set of information and details have been released on the decisions of the SAR team to suspend the search due to danger involved. For those who did not see the news coverage today, those same SAR team members who had been previously severely criticized, were cheered for their efforts.

At the afternoon news conference, Bill Neadles' (SAR spokesperson) voice broke as he described how his team was "devastated" by a sense from Elliot Lake residents the crew was giving up prior to the heavy equipment arriving. He said it was his decision to take his team out because "beams were going to fail."

"These men are professional police officers, firefighters and emergency medical paramedics ... that you thought we were going to pack up and go home. That was devastating," said Neadles. "We would stay another four to five weeks if we had to."

The audience, made up of townspeople, began to clap as Neadles finished his remarks and stood up to give him and his team, who are all volunteers and unpaid for the work, the applause. A clearly choked up Neadles went silent.



_________________________
Earth and sky, woods and fields, lakes and rivers, the mountain and the sea, are excellent schoolmasters, and teach some of us more than we can ever learn from books.

John Lubbock

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#247600 - 06/28/12 12:05 AM Re: Agonizing SAR decisions in mall roof collapse [Re: Teslinhiker]
NIM Offline
Member

Registered: 02/12/03
Posts: 128
I was at that mall last summer. The roof was falling apart back then (it looked pretty getto). Pictures are available from Feb of this year showing how bad it was (shifting of the structure and bricks falling etc).

My hat is off to the rescuers as that mall was in tragic disrepair awhile ago. I can't imagine how unsafe it is now. I have family in Elliot lake still. They are fine, but it is a small community and it has been devastating for everyone.

My prayers are with the families.

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