Saturday the long distance lines were down and even cell phones didn't work. Any one else ever have this happen to them?

HillBilly:
There is a current belief among cell phone users that when a normal hard phone line, or landline is out (non-working) the cell phone should be working. This is not true. Cellular phones are a more complex version of a common two-way radio, or walkie-talkie. Their signal is sent from the phone to the cellular tower and then to a switching terminal, or cell and then into a telephone line. It is from this cell terminal that the name originates. In a densely populated area, cellular service companies utilize a large block of phone lines to accomplish their task. These large blocks mean the difference between working and non-working systems. In a rural or remote and less populated area fewer blocks are used and the simple fact the cellular phone will not be working is not uncommon.

Unfortunately, when a disaster strikes, such as a hurricane, or building collapse, then the loss of phone lines becomes very apparent. What systems remain (in the case of 9-11-01) become clogged or non-functional due to an increase in demand. Utility companies, by law, must provide almost continuous service and therefore must restore service as quickly as possible. Cellular services are not under the same regulations, but they try to work within the same guidelines. In fact several companies placed temporary towers in the aftermath of 9-11.

Another complicating fact is the telecommunications act of 1996. This FCC mandate simply states that all cellular providers must provide a 96-percentile coverage to any specific area. While companies strive for more than this mark, there are times coverage just is not there. When you purchase cellular service, or even phone service nobody mentions the whole story to you. If they did how many sales would they have really lost? Since it never is mentioned and because people can access phone lines with a cell phone most people naturally assume the “phone” always works.

Finally, an interesting note: Currently no cellular phone can identify itself to a 9-1-1 call center. Nor can a cellular phone give the callers exact location. Even though the technology must be in place by 2005. Some 9-1-1 call centers will not be “enhanced” enough to know a cell phones location. Hope this helps.

Take care,
Stargazer

ASAP = Always Suspicious, Always Prepared

Since cell phones still rely on land lines to get between towers and long distance lines to get between cities they are vulnerable there just like land lines. They are more vulnerable to overloading because the requirments for cell phone peak usage are lower than land lines (can't remember the numbers at the moment). An interesting observation from 9-11, while most people's cell phones didn't work (mine included, had to tell my wife to get on a main steet and walk the direction toward our home and I drove the street until I found her), text messageing seemed to work fairly well since it requires much less bandwidth (remember a cell phone ties up a connection as long as you talk where text messageing you compose the message then hit send then it makes a connection, spits out a few bytes and disconnects). I made sure both of our phones from then on could do some form of text even if it did cause an extra fee when used. My current phone and most sold now have a gps built in (anyone know one what can be plugged into a laptop/pda and be use the gps function that way) and for years the e911 systems would give the disaptcher both the cell humber and the number and address of the cell tower it was connected to so the rescue crew could go to the tower and start looking in a circle. I installed a bunch of those e911 systems in 96-97.

Unfortunately, I have found out about cell phone coverage due to hurricanes and the aftermath of their passage. Corded phones worked great after most of our storms, as long as the lines stayed intact. Vandals stole backup generators from cell towers, and that pretty much puts an end to your cell coverage!
I just got my amateur radio license recently, and will be looking to that as a communication backup. I am in the steep part of the learning curve, however! <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

You have your ham ticket? Great - hook up with your local ARES/RACES group - they specalize en Ham Emergency comms

I saw a blurb on CNN the other day about GPS "chips" being placed in some cell phones. Here in southern Oregon we have already had a pilot program for a year or two -- you would purchase a specially-made cell phone battery that has a GPS receiver buried inside. When you need 9-1-1 to find you all you have to do is dial and push the small button on the back of the battery. Then bingo, your coordinates are transferred along with your 9-1-1 call and the dispatcher can pull up your location on a map. (Now if only there weren't so many PSAPs here... but that's another story... <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> )

It is good to have the technology in your phone, which some phones already have. The main problem is the PSAP must have inactive mapping software to say you are at the coordinates your GPS shows e.g. Main & Elm. Same principle applies to the OnStar system in GM vehicles. When you call 9-1-1 from a regular home phone the E-9-1-1 system is using a street map and your address to pinpoint your location. If your area is like mine, then your rural address probably changed from RR 5 Box # like mine to a coordinate system. This was required for both the postal service and E-9-1-1. Unfortunately some areas still have no 9-1-1. Imagine getting directions like "2 miles past the Thornton residence on Pine Valley Rd." Never mind the Thornton's moved in the 1970's. Occasionally on the ambulance service I volunteer for, we get directions just like that from a 9-1-1 call center. There are even times a caller calls and really has no idea where they are. You actually get calls to the PSAP like " I am on the freeway between Boise, ID and Pocatello, ID (a distance of 285 miles) and I just slid off the road because it's snowing. Then people wonder why my girlfriend (dispatcher) is soooo cranky. BTW these people think prepardness is just carrying the cell phone. I have spent countless hours searching for someone, only to have them found later at home, or not even in my response area.

A lot of states have the PSAP equipment. During 96-97 I lived in my truck installing said equipment in most of OH, IL, some WV, TN and maybe more but the state lines all seemd blur together back then <img src="images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. Some states would get the basic ANI/ALI and map, others got the vehicle status monitors, in car PC's tracking of police cars by GPS, etc. It was with that job that I learned that the people answering the 911 calls are just like anyone else, i.e. most do their jobs, some don't, some make mistakes, public abuse of the service, etc. After seeing what could go wrong on a call I started to prepare myself for anything in hopes that I wouldn't have to make those calls.

As of October 28, 2003, Brevard County, FL 911 system is fully Phase I compiliant. All cellular calls now pass cellular phone numbers to the Public Safety Answering Point (PSAP). AT&T and Verizon are now Phase II compliant, and provide location information to the PSAP. Most 911 centers in the U.S. should be able to receive Phase I. The Phase II, location information, is the problem.

As for using cell phones in an emergency. No system on earth is ever designed to handle everything at once. Telephone switching networks, the internet, cell phones, trunked radio systems, water systems, sewer systems, roads, bridges, subways and buses are never designed to run at full capacity.

Most follow a formula to determine average volume, and the system is designed at that level of volume, plus some overflow. This overflow is simply to allow time for implementing other options. If you go over that, you're probably going to break the system.

As for ham radio, it has it's advantages and disadvantages. In my opinion, using it for personal communications in an emergency probably won't work, especially if you need information passed rapidly. Telling your wife, children or significant other where you are at is probably going to be classified as "Health and Welfare", and isn't going to get passed quickly.

So wrong! If you have a ham lisence and the needed gear (which isn't expensive if you go CW QRP) there will never be a time other than during a severe electrical storm when you cannot make contact outside you local area by a wide margin. on 40 meters in cw under 5 watts you could easily reach around the horizon. There will be vhf and uhf and occasionally 10 meter frequencies that are "taken over" by the emergency communications nets but with a ham lisence you have access to HUGE amounts of bandwidth. Move over a few kilohertz and you will find a quiet channel to transmit on without bothering anyone. If you are involved in the ARES / RACES programs in your area you will know ahead of time what frequencies they are on and you can arrange to use otherones for your personal / group comms. With this pre-arranged and a bit more money you can place a repeater somewhere convenient on your personal frequency and have decent local VHF coverage during emergencies in FM mode. I doubt that there will ever be a localized emergency that comes close to the communications load represented by field-day and even on field day you could make contact on just about any frequency with just about anyone within 1/2 hour if you are persistent enough.

The trick with using the ham bandwidth and gear for personal comms in an emergency is pre-arrainging the frequencies and times when you and your group will be listening. You need to setup a couple of frequencies so that if there is chatter on the one you first listen on you can switch over. You will need to pre-arrange with your group when to listen and in what order to switch between the prearranged frequencies. With a decent mobil rig at either end you can even setup a scan group to include only the prearranged frequencies. As loong as those aren't the ones that ARES will be using you will be GTG.

Or, you JOIN the local ARES group, and do what I've done on more than one occasion

"Net Control - (My tactical call here - Let's say Shadow 1)"
"Shadow1, Go Ahead"
"Could you contact my emergency contact and let her know that I'm working this activation - KC2IXE"
"Roger - will do - (net controls call sign here)"

One small piece of traffic added to the net. Usually about 5 minutes later, you get a call
"Shadow1, Net Control"
"Net Control, Shadow1, Go Ahead"
"Message passed to your contact - (Net controls call sign here)"
"KC2IXE"

and it's DONE, and confirmed

First off, let me say that I have never been in a actual disaster emergency communications environment, so yes, I probably don't have the knowledge there.

miniMe, thos are good points, and very true, but I should have been a little more clear on what my assumptions were:

- Both the hardline and wireless telephone networks are down
- You have no access to the internet
- You have a 2 meter portable radio
- You have a no-code Technician license
- You haven't joined ARES
- No one else in your family is an amateur radio operator.
- You know no amateur radio operators near your family
- There is a significant disaster
- You're trying to communicate your safety to someone you care about, right after the start of the disaster.
- You expect that message to get to them within 15 minutes or less.

These assumptions are based upon my personal situation, with the exception of the ARES group, which I am a member of the local group. I felt that there was an expectation of cellphone-like response to sending messages with amateur radio.

Amateur radio is a great alternative, but I feel ( MY OPINION ) with the lowest level of equipment, licensing, involvement and pre-planning, you will have to wait possibly hours for your message to be delivered to loved ones. Especially if those people live in the immediate area.

What you have said, and what I've shown here, this tells everyone one thing:

PLAN AHEAD AND GET INVOLVED

<img src="images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Unfortunately, any two way comms requires both ends to be capable. You won't be able to make a phone call to someone without a phone and you won't be able to make a radio contact to someone without a radio. Simple. If you have a contact person who also has a 2 meter ham radio you will be able to find plenty of empty bandwidth outside the ARES dominated Em-Comms frequencies to make your contacts. The ARES net will be predominated by emergency comms at first but after the first 24 hours you shouuld be able to get Health and Welfare comms through them as the urgent comms become less overwhelming. Best bet is to make friends through the Ham community with some hams outside your area. That way you will be able to establish secondary communications directly. Of course it would be better if someone in your family / circle of concern were to get lisenced and equipped to the level you are.

Also, Join ARES. As a member of the net you will know when it is quiet enough for a moment to drop in some personal comms without over burdening the net and you will be part of those solving the problems rather than a victim representing a problem to be solved.

During the first hours of the ARES activation, net operators may reasonably not be willing to take Health and welfare messages for transmit since they will want to reserve the bandwidth for tactical Emergency comms. OTOH, if you are a net operator or even a station operator you will find moments of relative quiet on the net that will allow you to drop in some informal Health and welfare of your own without anyone thinking poorly of it. By net I mean the radio net not the internet.

Someone on another forum was trying to tell me that Nextel phones would work without cell towers (i.e. CB radio like). i explained to him that even though you can talk to someone else on another nextel phone they are both still relaying off the tower and won't work if the tower goes down. I'm thinking there maybe a nextel model with some sort of local cpability, maybe on FRS frequencies but even is so they wouldn't be able to transmit very far. Anyone heard anything about these.

Nextels just don't work when TSHTF - heck, on bad regular days, they don't work. ASK your local Red Cross or Salvation Armay disaster manager. They were all ready to say "Bye" to hams at one point, then they figured out how poorly the Nextels really do (or any cell phone in REALLY bad spots)

As for FRS - the claim "up to 2 miles" - in real life, figure up to 1 mile, and in the city, a heck of a lot less. Even if there was a nextel with FRS, could you accept a range of < 1 mile, and a freq band with what, 12 channels?

Best bets?
1)CB - yeah, CB
2)GMRS - sort of like "super frs" but requires a license
3)convince the person/people you need to talk to to take the ham radio test. The "Tech" exam is REALLY REALLY easy

The Nextel phone with a standalone/direct mode is not available yet. It will function off network and it's not FRS. Perhaps in 3/4Q 2004 or 1Q 2005.

Thats what I thought. This was on another forum and the guy was suggestion those for situations where the cell towers were down or jammed (9/11 for example). I told him they would do no good then as they work just like other cell phones. On 9/11 the only people getting any kind of wireless through were text message subscribers. They were slow but still worked since they only take a small amout of time to squeeze a message through. I made sure our cell phones from then on were text capable even if it cost an extra fee to use so we have some fallback capability. I keep hoping somehow the phone standards will be raised since everyone uses their phones more and more, espically now with cellular internet and such. I remember years ago signing up for AOL 1.0 and getting charged $69 one month to get nothing but busy signals so I've been staying with small local companies until going cable so I would have a short distance to the connection and hopefully less chance of hitting busy circuits.

They would probably operate on the NEXTEL assigned frequencies (800Mhz range, FRS is in the 400Mzh range), and I don't see them being very powerful. Maybe good for something like a construction site, but site-to-site communications for anything over a mile. To get anything over that, you're going to need a bigger battery.