Naturally, it all depends on the situation. Certainly it’s possible, with enough experience, to get a decent night’s rest next to a fire. I’m not anti-fire, heck, I’ve often been called the Fire King (Blast will dispute that).

But here’s my point. Probably millions of people have gone camping and slept in a sleeping bag inside a tent without ever building a fire. If you are dry, have protection from precipitation and wind and have proper insulation, there is no probably no need for an extra heat source to get through the night. But as soon as someone is “surviving”, the laws of physics somehow manage to change.

I guess it’s not surprising. In Deep Survival, one of the examples was a backpacker who took a wrong turn, got separated from his partner and got lost. He was on day one of a multi-day trip with a backpack full of food, a tent and a sleeping bag. But after he realized he was lost he went thrashing around, long after dark, and eventually passed out in the snow. He continued to thrash for another day or two before he finally make himself a meal, set up his tent and went to sleep in his sleeping bag.

In the “Break Down” and “Altoids” videos, both groups started out in a dry environment, practically knee-deep in dry leaves, yet they all felt the need to keep a fire going all night. I think it’s just an “imprint” that people pick up from books, videos and experts.

I’ll bet that more than one person carries steel wool and batteries in their survival kit because they read in a survival manual that that’s one way to start a fire.

Fleece fibers repels water. Wring it, give it a beating, flap it around - and it's almost completely dry.

Wool attracts water, but up to a point the water will be sucked into the fibers and stay there. The result: Semi-wet wool retains a large percentage of it's insulation value. Soaking wet wool is not really pleasant. (I've read a vivid description of someone's boy scout memories about standing in the rain with a itchy, heavy, soaking wet wool sweater that stretched all the way to his knees... ) Wring it, give it a good beating and flap it around - it still contains loads of water, but will keep you warm (but somewhat less warm than the dry equivalent).

The water that is contained within the hollow wool fibers will dry out very slowly, which means that heat loss due to evaporation is minimal.

In one video, Dave askes them why they are leaving the blanket outside as the snow comes down. One of them replied that it was ok to let it get get, because its wool... Obviously he "knows" that "wool still keeps you warm after it's wet" Rather literal minded. I'll take the dry wool blanket over the wet one.

[quote=th

But here’s my point. Probably millions of people have gone camping and slept in a sleeping bag inside a tent without ever building a fire. If you are dry, have protection from precipitation and wind and have proper insulation, there is no probably no need for an extra heat source to get through the night.
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I quite agree that many have spent comfortable nights without a fire given a proper sleeping bag. And it is true that if you are dry, are protected from the weather and are adequately insulated, you do not need a fire. It is the absence of one of those three conditions that can rather quickly place you in a survival situation and require a fire; at least that is when I start getting serious about building one.

There is probably one other condition that should be stipulated - that you are eating adequately and are producing enough internal heat. If you are not producing heat, you will need a lot of insulation and/or an external heat source.

I sincerely hope no one is lugging around a battery and steel wool as a serious mean of starting a fire. It is a neat parlor trick and not otherwise very practical - at least there are numerous more effective techniques, like a Bic.

Lol poor hiker. It doe's grow tiring, that debate. You forgot to mention to look for snakes and crawlies in those rock shelters. And I would think they would be hard to heat if in winter. As for those individuals in the videos I kept waiting for Darwins theory to prove itself. LOL

But fleece is not windproof Pete. Don't get me wrong, I love fleece, own lots of it, but wind is a killer.

All I can say is, in my real world experiences wet fleece is better than exposed skin even when exposed to wind in keeping you warm. Fleece although not usually windproof (there are some that are), does provide some protection from the wind. As others have stated, you can wring out or let the fleece drain, add a plastic bag or even one of those cheap survival blankets to block the wind and you have an effective system, not perfect but better than exposed skin.

Pete

Very true Pete.

It only takes one dunking or one cold windy night to realize that the added $ for lined or windstopper fleece is well worth the investment.

I noticed something in the first video between 7:00 and 8:30

It is worth opening a new thread titled ( in the heat of the moment) , you kind of forget a few things when you are in a tense situation. I do sometimes have stuff in my pockets and bag, but due to stress in a situation, I try to look for substitutes because I forgot I had the one thing I needed at that momemnt.

Notice how that tall guy ( don't know his name ) talks about lack of enough paracord to build better shelter while camera zooms nearer to his right hand , and there is a paracord bracelet !

A few seconds later, Keven ( the guy from Florida) takes his water bottle and submerges it in the creek because it is "too hot". The whole situation is about getting enough heat to warm yourself and dry your clothes, and he wants to get rid of some "extra" heat. Well, how about wrapping his socks around the bottle so that the "excess" heat goes into drying the socks ??