Hey everyone. I'm seeking answers and advice on long term survival in an TEOTWAWKI situation. I'll be doing a series of threads on various aspects of this and all responses are welcomed and I thank you in advance for your help and guidance. This thread concerns long term food and water. I have three deluxe one year supply of long term foods in # 10 cans here at the ranch, but even supplementing with the gardens, live stock and hunting it will go fast feeding the hands and thier familes as well as my "family".
So let's switch it to a cabin with a full size basement I own in the mountains. I have 25 acres to garden, raise basic stock and bees.

Here are my questions:

Water
How much should I store per person?
How should it be treated for storage and should it be treated or filtered before consumption?
In containers I am considering powerade bottles, 2-3 liter soda bottles, 5 gallon water jugs and 55 gallon water barrels, any thoughts on this?

Food
I've never tried the long term foods but the manufacturers claim they have a 20 year shelf life.
Would they be edible beyond that time?
How do they taste and are they filling? When I looked at Weiss I think it was, a daily ration was one serving of one half a cup of food.
What about grains? What should I store, how should it be stored, and for how long?
What are your opinions on survival type gardens? Are they worth the unwanted attention they might attract?

Again, I thank you for your help. And encourage any thoughts, comments and suggestions you have, even if they are off subject.

I believe the recommendation is 1-gallon per person per day. This would allow for cooking, cleaning and personal hygiene. So a family of 4 would require almost 1,500 gallons of water for a 1-year reserve. Logistically, this is difficult to manage. Depending on your location and the threat that you envision, some method of collecting and purifying water (ground water, well, spring, rainwater) might need to be considered.


Sealed containers of water bought at retail require no treatment and, according to the CDC, have an indefinite shelf life if unopened and stored in a cool, dark location. However, the translucent containers prevalent in larger containers might start to break down after a few years.

Tap water from a public utility subject to chlorination and other purification measures theoretically, again per the CDC, require no additional treatment. But does need to be rotated every 6 months.

Well water and spring water should have 3 to 5 drops of chlorine bleach added per gallon, and be rotated every 6 months.

If maintained as per the above, no additional treatment should be required before use.


It's a battle between efficiency of space and convenience in rotation. Powerade bottles are probably too small to be effective, 55 gallon barrels might be too large to rotate. I prefer 2.5 gallon jugs of spring water and rotate them into general use, so none are usually more than 6 months old.


Probably. If you read the books by Cody Lundin you'll learn he's pushed far past what most people would consider reasonable in experimenting with "expired" food, including food that has turned rancid, been infested with insects, etc. It depends on what you consider to be "edible." I expect that taste and nutritional value would be reduced. But 20 years is a long time. If you amortize a $5k investment in long term foods over 20 years that's less than a family outing at McDonalds every month.


Some of it tastes good, some of it tastes lousy. Stock-up on spices and hot-sauce for palate variety. Whether they are filling or not is somewhat an academic question. They are more filling than doing without. As long as you're getting the necessary minimum amount of calories, vitamins and minerals, your body will eventually adjust to a reduced volume diet.


Whole rice, wheat flour, corn meal and oatmeal. Not grains, but I'd also lump dry beans, salt, sugar and yeast in my bulk preps. Sealed in opaque, oxygen-depleted containers (oxygen absorbers or nitrogen saturation) I believe these will last at least 5 years, salt and sugar forever.


I like the idea of a vegetable garden from a self-sustainability perspective, not just survival. You'll appreciate the fiber after eating all those dehydrated meals, and will need some sources for vitamin C. Also raising chickens and goats for eggs, milk, cheese and meat. Do you have a pond or cattle tank on your land? If so, maybe you can farm fish.

while I've always had a hurricane pantry good for a couple of weeks, I started "long term" storage this last year...like most,I purchased inexpensive staples like rice, pinto beans, powdered milk, potato buds, cocoa, tea, salt, sugar, pasta, and decided on vacuum food sealer bags rather than mylar bags and buckets... I reshelved my regularly eaten goods on an open shelf as it helps me in visual inventory to rotate stock....if I had seen the Wendy DeWitt video on YouTube (1hr 27min) first, I would have chosen to vacuum can in glass jars....after opening, the jars can be resealed with the original lids, not so easy to do with the plastic bags.. while it would take up a little more room, I think smaller portion size in glass jars would be more practical (store in cardboard boxed the jars are packed in in a dark place)... and probably cheaper in the long run...the rectangular vacuum food saver packs do not stack efficiently in a round bucket... if you have access to an LDS cannery, that is the best option.... I think my next purchase is a solar oven like the SOS Sport, and possibly invest in a pressure canner to put away some meat...a jar vacuum sealer is on the shopping list for sure, and will replace the bags in the future, and possibly repack those already sealed... there are a couple of vids where automotive hand vacuum pumps can be used to seal jars in case of power outage...

do you add anything to your potato buds to get any nutrition from them?

if the question was for me.. not really, just a familiar food, relatively easy to prepare... 80 calories(1/2 cup)...probably use to thicken a one pot soup or stew... only have a little flour stored at this time for bannock

Les, I'm sure the SOS Sport is a nice piece of gear, but building your own solar oven isn't difficult or expensive, and could be a fair bit more portable than the pre-built models. I haven't tried using one since scouts, but back then (when dirt was new) we were able to put together stoves from cardboard, aluminum foil and scotch tape and each baked ourselves a small cake during the course of an afternoon.

I'm concerned about home methods of preserving meat. However, I did just this week buy myself a dehydrator and picked-up some london broil cuts on-sale. Just trying to decide what marinade recipe to try out first. Chicken and salmon jerky are also in the plans, and I think there's a few pounds of venison in the deep freeze that might get the treatment once I get my formula down pat.

So, I'm out searching for ideas to marinade my first batch of homemade jerky and guess what I discover: powdered butter. Not economically attractive given the $20/pound cost (equivalent of 4 pounds regular butter). But hot dog, survival pancakes will be much tastier with some powdered butter. Hey look! Powdered maple syrup. I wonder if its possible to gain weight after TEOTWAWKI?

Who says roughing it has to be so rough? Now if I can just find a nice powdered Merlot to go with dinner.

I have seen powdered wine marketed to backpacker. At first blush it sounds gruesome but you never know.

Mark_M... played around last summer with a solar funnel cooker like the one designed at Brigham Young Univ....was really trying to make ice cream with exposure to the night sky...I built a solar water heater for Mom and Dad years ago... so probably could design one, but the one from SOS looks good... don't think I could make one without vacuum forming with a weight under 10#

there are some pretty detailed instruction on home pressure canning... I think that LDS are the "pros from Dover" as they've been at it for a long time.. I know I'm way behind the learning curve, so am just trying to look at some options

HA. I've seen that too. It would certainly make eating some foods better. And living in house dedicated to buying, "I can't believe it's not butter" or as I call it, "extra watery margarine", it'd be nice to something a little dryer to mix with. (sarcasm font)

I want to try that, and I have about 75 pounds of lean venison on hand. Unfortunately, due to the gale-force winds during our 2011 deer season, it is still running around in the woods.

Hey Mark, thanks for all the well thought out advice. I truly appreciate and the time you took. Yes I have a large pond/small lake. I diverted part of the stream running through the property and have it well stocked with fis, crawfish, frogs, turtles and even large salamanders. All sorts of wildlife water there. There is a large coop but it is empty as I do not reside there. I would take stock and barn cats if we had to leave the ranch for there. There also bee hives there for honey, wax etc. I have been using the powerade bottles for grains, flour, sugar, salt, pasta and the like. They seem to keep the nasties out but they do have limited capacity. Thanks again.

As for eating reduced meals I have cut back drasticly since I no longer have a need to carry around so much muscle. I usually eat once a day, sometimes twice. Yesterday I had a fistful of sunflower seeds and a few Good N Plenty candies. They were in the shop and I didn't feel like eating. So I can get by on smaller quantities.

As far as the food goes, we're operating on a store what you eat and eat what you store theory here. You've got lots of the dried food so why not start using it and rotating in new stock so your supply doesn't drop? That way you can get used to it, figure out recipes that you like, etc. Not to mention that it will help keep your stock fresher.

i'm probably gonna just go to a 55-gal drum for water at my home.
incidentally ... i asked on another thread a long time ago. But never found the responses. who sells clean 55-gal drums in major cities?

anyway, if you really need water, then you probably need a lot over a period of a few weeks. think about the drum.

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Pete2

Sam's Club
-Blast

So, now that I've been making my own Jerky, I've been wondering what your experience is with long term storage.

So far I've turned 32lbs of beef into Jerky. Yield is about 7oz Jerky from 16oz of Top Round London Broil. The only problem is it lasts less than a week in my house. What's the secret of storing this stuff long-term? LOL, it's not going bad, we can't stop snacking on it.

Seriously though, how long will Jerky last in storage? Aside from vacuum-sealing it, what's the best way to extend the shelf life? O2 absorbers? I can throw it in the deep freeze, but if I loose power, how long would it be safe to eat?

It is good to store a supply of water. In case of civil unrest, injury, etc where leaving the house may be problematic.

However water is typically used at such a rate that it is difficult to keep enough for a long term situation.

One key is to have a reliable, clean, natural source water that you can count on to remain viable even after a big disaster (a great reason to live in a rural area). Wells, natural springs that are filtered through hills, clear mountain streams etc.

Of course, treat all water before consuming it.

I have some commercially prepared jerky that is almost archaeological; I have consumed some packets that were at least five years beyond their expiration date. They tasted fine. Home prepped stuff may be different, but if it stays dry and was properly prepared, there isn't too much that can go wrong.

If you're vacuum sealing it plus freezing it, I can't help but think that the preservation effects would somewhat cumulative.

I think your jerky will depend upon how much fat is left on your meat when you dry it. I am sure the leaner it is the longer it will last.

Your senarios seem oriented around "bugging in", my plan too (at least my main focus). I plan on burying a 1200 gallon cistern and rotating it every 4-6 months. This would allow for many months supply with our family of five. We are on a well, but have a historic shallow well on the acreage that I may run a gravity feed to the cistern with some 1" pipe (500' and about 20' drop). Also, I REALLY like the aluminum Army medical containers for hermetic and vermin-proofness (food or gear). Look at Coleman Supply, under containers. I bought a batch of 50 or so from GovtLiquidation, at about $30 each. They come up on occasion there and I bought my first (20) about 20 years ago from a surplus guy for $20 each. I keep an impressive amount of high end outdoor gear in them in a shed outside and have never had anything damaged by vermin. they are a standard around my property/operation

Ironwood