Wow. Didn't mean to kick the hornets nest.

Nope. It's a standard model with a bull barrel we added when I was young and worked at a gunshop. An M-16 is capable of hitting a man sized target a 1000 meters. I have always been very good at long range shots. That session I used a bench rest and took my time on a dead calm summer day. Look at the snipers in Nam who were using .30 caliber weapons and the shots they performed. White Feather was one. Thanks for responding.

Wonder how this response got into this particular thread.

[quote=ILBob...Wonder how this response got into this particular thread... [/quote]

READ! He was responding to LesSnyder.

(To quote a phrase from the rule book - ...If the discussion of firearms use bothers you ... ignore threads (or messages) involving firearms...)

I gotta say, in my 8 years as an EMT, I can't remember all that many sterile conditions and bright lights ... so not sure where you're basing that stereotype.

"Combat" medics is pretty broad. Every 68W in the Army is a "combat medic" but few truly see combat. Heck, most of them end up in some sort of clinic setting or rear setting. And most of THEM don't know what to do after 30 minutes ... that casevac isn't going to come in a SHTF. And they won't be all that good with non-trauma stuff. So, you pick who you want.

A SF medic is probably better trained, or an IDC for the Navy folks. Ideally, some sort of surgeon or ER doc that has real world, out of hospital experiences.

I guess I with MD Diana on this one - I can't recall anything like sterile conditions inside out of the elements on any calls I have been privy to. And, yes, I have seen physicians and ER personnel perform quite well. I think your point could be better stated as "physicians will be able to do more in a hospital or standard medical setting than they can do in the wild." And yes, some will do better and be more effective and comfortable than others. If I am ever the victim I will be perfectly happy to receive medical treatment from an MD in the field.

I can recall at least one instance where an onscene physician made the difference and saved a life. Everyone there, including a couple of paramedics, agreed.

1000 meters with a typical M16? Yikes. I've shot out to 800 yards with my 20" HBAR and that was plenty for me. At that point your shot is dropping some 20 feet and carries less energy than a .22lr.

Wow, a .22 lr holds a lot of energy out to 800 yards.

Should have clarified......22lr at the muzzle.

The hair-splitting about doctors seems to be a meditation upon a luxury that we probably won't have in any emergency situation. While I agree on the relative suitability of various sorts of doctors, we'd be lucky to find even one doctor, much less someone who specializes in exactly what we need. It's not like we'll have a special forces combat medic, an ER doctor who's comfortable improvising, an OBGYN, a neurosurgeon, and an osteopath to pick from, unless the emergency happens in the middle of a medical convention. It's hard enough already in our current First World life to find a good doctor. It's going to be a throw of the dice in a disaster.

The *Ditch Medicine* book looks... exactly like the sort of stuff I hope I'll never have to do in real life. Many grim scenarios. Better get a copy of the book. Thanks for the recommendation.