Let me appeal to the moderators to clarify the rules for discussing firearms. I thought I knew them, but maybe I don't. It will help everyone to have some specific guidelines. Thanks.

I didn't know there were any such rules, other than the general rules of being on point. Maybe I missed them.

May I suggest -

FORUMS: FIREARMS ONLY
Survival and Emergency Preparedness topics involving firearms and weapons. If you find yourself bothered by the topic or discussion, don't contribute.

The existing rules can be found at the rules link at the top of every page. The rules relating to specifically to firearms discussions are:

FIREARMS DISCUSSION: The use of firearms for survival or preparedness, either for food gathering or self-defense, is a perfectly acceptable topic. You can discuss what, where, when, how and training. Any discussion that moves into the realm of defending or opposing firearms ownership or use in our society is political in nature and has no place here.

From the perspective of ETS, firearms are a valid and acceptable survival and preparedness tool. If you don't believe in this, ignore threads involving firearms. If discussion of firearms use bothers you too much, you are welcome to leave. If you oppose the concept of firearms ownership or use, regardless of your reasons, take your debate about the subject elsewhere. If you support firearms ownership and use, that's fine, BUT this is not the place to try to convert those who do not.

A firearm can be a most useful survival tool. However, some folks here fear then or want to make a political statement against them. Keep those folks feelings in mind when you post and you'll be OK maybe.

Yup, it's always been right up there in the general forum rules.

I support Cliff's suggestion for a separate Firearms related forum....I realize that I am a new poster to this board, but sense a bias against the discussion of firearms...

and when I do want to discuss firearms, do go to another forum, but have tried to contribute only when I think I can offer a little insight to a solution of a problem requested by another...I have 30+ years of competitive shooting, the same number of years as a classroom teacher, and feel somewhat competent in both fields

There are plenty of places where the typical BOB starts out with 20 pounds of guns and ammo. I think that is a bit nuts and often say so in such places. Most of the time no one really cares. You are unlikely to change anyone's mind about much of anything by what you post on any forum.

No kit of mine has any firearms in it, largely because I live in the state of IL and even an unloaded and locked up gun is often illegal outside of one's home. Part of surviving to me is not getting thrown in jail. The sheer weight of a firearm is also a problem, even forgetting the legality for the moment.

There are not many places around me where I go hiking that I am real worried about wild animals. A few coyotes. One park I frequent has vampire deer, but so far my faithful hiking buddy Wilma has protected me and I have not been attacked by them. I always have a hiking stick so in the unlikely event of being assaulted by a poisonous snake I would have some defense.

I am more worried about 2 legged critters, but the laws being what they are make that problem difficult to deal with. For now, I rely on being lucky and avoiding certain areas. Mostly around here there are only a few places that need be avoided.

Agree. Firearms can be one tool in the toolbox and as such can be discussed in any of the current ETS forums. A dedicated firearms forum would constantly be crossing into firearms advocacy -- politics, policy and legislation. There are other forums dedicated to that such as: thehighroad.org; there is no need to duplicate that discussion area here. $.02

While the rules suggest the topic is acceptable, history of threads suggest it isn't because the slightest swerve gets the thread locked.

I will endeavor to never speak of them again on this board.

While it does appear that way to me as well, at least to some extent, I am inclined to say what I think keeping in mind that the owner of the board has put people in place to enforce what he wants posted. As it is ultimately his decision what can be posted and not mine, I am inclined not to make too big of a fuss over what the owner of the forum allows.

It seems like it took forever just to add the 'urban' section. Now add a gun section? !!.

I don't think it's necessary personally. Firearms are discussed on here plenty in the context of the already established sections. I mean there are more worthy and greater discussed subjects I'd place higher on the list for it's own category before that.

I don't know what the magic mix is but I will say this: it's tricky.

It's reasonable to say that guns are an important tool and using them an important skill. It's unfair to assume that because someone owns/carries a gun they must be a "gun loving uneducated redneck". On the other hand, someone pointing out when they might not be preferred, isn't the same thing as anti-gun advocacy.

Likewise, some of us exclude them from our equipment and skills inventory. That's reasonable too. It's unfair to assume that reason we don't own/carry guns is because they're "anti-gun fear mongers". On the other hand, someone pointing out when they could be preferred doesn't make them a "gun nut" either.


Making an argument to include or exclude them in any given scenario is usually reasonable. Explaining why a different/additional gun or ammo is the preferred choice is probably cool too.

Continuing to argue about whether someone else should or should not own/carry/use a gun isn't cool.

Making assumptions about other people's motivations isn't cool.

Dismissing someone because they fall into one camp or the other isn't cool.

EDIT: Personalizing the your argument by throwing insults, accusations or qssumptions at someone of the opposite persuasion of yours isn't cool.

Chaos, I think you and the other mods are doing a fine job. You warn us when we're walking the line and and youu let respectful discussion proceed. I appreciate that!

I agree - guns here on ETS is a "tricky" subject. Guns are such a polarizing issue it's rather difficult to keep social and political slants from encroaching. In that regard, the mods seem to always have an obligatory appearance about 5 posts in saying "keep it clean, people" and then let the thread run it's course. For the most part, all of you here on ETS do a fine job of keeping your personal agendas out of threads. Kudos to all of us.

FWIW, DR actually carries a gun at times (it's on the main site somewhere). So we can assume he at least recognizes their utility.

I tend to agree, so far ETS has been a good gun-neutral forum. I'm on a couple other forums (NOT survival related) and they seem to think that 10K rounds of ammo just means they can kill and plunder as their survival "kit." I'm glad most of us don't twist threads into that sort of realm. And most of the firearms we DO talk about are usually .22, airguns, or some sort of shotgun. Not saying that other firearms aren't acceptable or useful, but it seems for this particular forum, they are recommended.

As I understand it, the focus of this forum is survival equipment and while survival is as varied as the context or the circumstances that prevail at the time, the circumstances and the degree of success are the only real judge of whether the presence of a firearm is valid, reasonable or non-essential. IE, if you perish for lack of a firearm, then your bias cost you your life. If trouble comes your way because you’re packing, you’ll have to pay whatever price providence demands.

None of us knows what challenges we might face in the midst of a survival scenario. Armed with our wits and whatever aids we’ve chosen to carry with us, we’ll enter the storm. There’s very little that can prepare anyone for the savage and stark realities of true chaos. Take care that you neither doom yourself through needless aggression nor handicap yourself with the shackles of an impractical ideology. Survival will always demand more of you than you’ve prepared to give.

Pro or con, it’s an academic debate. Academics is insulated from the impacts of reality and it’s reality that will have the final word. Understand the realities, make your personal commitment and accept the cards you’re holding when the game starts.

We need to keep discussion of politics and political views away from ETS, but we also need to recognize that politics does impact our decisions & choices regarding survival equipment. There is no point in discussing/rehashing political discourse in this forum, but we need to acknowledge its impact. Folks in one part of the country have options others do not have. Folks in some of the states have options Canadians do not have. That's just the way it is.

I live in CA (California) which is almost as bad as the other CA (Canada) when it comes to firearms, but isn't as bad as other states and cities. Would I like to include a firearm in the large kit that stays in my truck? Yes. Would I consider doing so while I reside in CA? No, I've had that discussion with myself and I lost the debate. When I pack the truck for certain potential evacuation events, firearms are included, but it's limited in duration and I'm usually heading out of state.

Sometimes our equipment is limited by law (3 inch folder, no fixed blades, legal in the state but not necessarily in every city yada yada); that's a fact of life in today's world. A person's decision to not carry a firearm may have nothing to do with their personal desires, but is made for them by legislation. That's just the way it is.