I dont like um.

http://smallcaps.us/acme-united-signs-camillus-knife-deal-with-world-famous-survivorman-les-stroud

"The expertise and input from Les Stroud, combined with the Camillus carbonitride titanium non-stick technology, which makes the blades 10 times harder than stainless steel,"


http://seekingalpha.com/news-article/210...with-les-stroud


"The knives will feature Camillus carbonitride titanium non-stick technology, which provides cutting edges up to 10 times harder than untreated blades."


Im lost.

What you think of the Non stick coating making the knife 10 times harder then steel? Wonderful marketing!

Love that tanto bladed machette!

Really, there is not all that much new in the knife world.

China can make a knife every bit as good as a factory here in the US can. And they often do.

Have to admit that Chinese knives are getting better. I have one of the new Camillus knives, and although I have not field tested it yet, I like the price, fit, and finish of it.

I like Les Stroud, and I like Camillus. However, the mating of the two produced some really ugly babies IMHO.

Yeah. I normally don't care for looks as long as the tool does what is needed but these knives look real....um....I dunno. Kinda like something robocop would carry. All grey and green and black, Odd color choice to say the least.

I figured a marketed survival knife would be a little less subdued looking.

Interestingly, the colour scheme seems quite similar to some of MEC's new backpacking tents (e.g., MEC Volt).

The chinese stuff is getting better all the time. And while I hate to say it, much of the world doesn't see 'made in USA' as a mark of particular quality

It Is VERY Very hit and miss in my opinion when it comes to purchasing products in the first place. Adding the idea that where its made will change that just makes things complicated in a Unneeded way.

As the running joke goes look at everything you own and most of it will have a stamp clearly stating its not made in USA.

Also as a Side note Does that idea scare anyone else? At one Point It was the joke made in china was junk...Now Made in china will be gold and made in USA will be mud.....How is that gonna effect things?

The quality of Chinese stuff may be hit and miss but US made stuff is really no different. We're cranked out plenty of junk knives in the US, too. Unless we're talking customs I've never really though of the US as a great knifemaking country. Nearly all my kitchen knives are Japanese, with the only American made ones being specialty blades made to closely mimic the qualities of the Japanese ones. I don't want to set fans of one company against another but what would you rather have- a Becker or a Fallkniven? I'd take my F1 over any Becker(although they're very good knives). Certainly ESEE makes great knives. How many other truly elite knives are made in the US, though?

I think it still comes down to individual companies. Some work very closely with their Chinese factories, implementing the same QC as they do in their stateside plants. I've read that the tires made by major American companies in China are very good whereas the purely Chinese brands are deathtraps.

But I'll admit- I'd still be pretty wary of a Chinese knife. Maybe that will change as I see more good ones.

BTW, re the OP and the Stroud Camillus: At first blush I'm pretty disappointed. It contains lots Bear Grylls-style gimmicks and very few features I'd consider appropriate to a survival knife. I loath serrations right in the sweet spot of the blade. That's the part I'd use to make feather sticks or shavings, tasks much better suited to a plain edge. Actually I loath serrations in general. They're useful on a bread knife and perhaps great for EMS to cut seat belts or whatever, but for most tasks they just get in the way. The whole design screams "tacti-cool" more than survival.

[censored] insane trying to figure out how the hell people prefer nasty steak knives with those horrible serrations over a razor sharp smooth edge knife. Side note the Roach belly makes a FANTASTIC food knife.

It really makes you wonder how much if any say les had in the making of them. You would think they would have a slight essence of the Buck special in them since that is his all time fav knife.

Picture the Buck 119 special blade on a black version of the handle.....Now that may be a knife we would all look at and say "Hmm, Yes, Indeed, Quite" and while may not purchase would still not have such big issues with.

I just noticed somthing....Is That photoshopped into his hand????

Amen! UGLEEE!

I like Les as a presenter and writer, but I don't much care for these.

Yes, it does look photo-shopped! Aargh!

At the risk of opening a whole can of worms I would love to see a 'shootout' between these and the BG knives

According to what I've heard and read, Stroud worked with Camillus based on their willingness to work with him at his pace in developing the knives. As mentioned in another thread, here is an hour long interview with Stroud from last September where he mentions the development of the knives prior to the official product announcement - he doesn't mention Camillus by name but does talk about who he was looking for in a partner and why he partnered with them.

The following quote from a different article summarizes some of these things:

Mr. Stroud says that he was involved in every step of the design process. He told the technical people at Camillus what requirements the knives had to meet in terms of design, usability and comfort. And each time a prototype was ready, he took it outside to test. Only after several of these cycles the designs were finalized. He added that a survival knife has to help you to survive and that he wanted to make sure these knives did exactly that, without compromises.

Now, I admit aesthetically these knives don't really do much for me but I am thinking that these will turn out to be good, solid, and affordable choices for the outdoors.

It looks like Les' line of knives is in stores now and reviews are starting to pop up.



Here is a YouTube video with Les talking about the collection: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtTWs9BrMIE

I see this has also been a topic of conversation over at his facebook page too. The following is an excerpt from a recent post where he addressed some the comments the other knife-related statuses generated:

I love knives too and have always worked well with them. I dont know steel so well so I leave that up to the experts. But I can tell you that i frustrated my friends at Camillus by pushing them at every level to make sure these knives were right - and there will still be improvements as comments come back and i get to use them myself over a long time period. They were not meant to be super high-end expensive because they should be accessible financially to most people.
...
But if I am to be honest it is the 'sell out' comment that prompted me to write this while sitting naked on a couch in a hotel room (sorry for the visual :-) ) Yes some things will be made in china - try to exist today and not touch something made across the ocean. But I am with you guys - so far I like the knives - if there is something I dont like about them - Camillus will hear about it and they are committed to fixing anything i have issues with. At least you guys will know I am keeping it personal. I am still making hand made higher end custom knives with the folks at Helle and ax's with Wetterlings - but I am also working on a multi tool and hatchet and saws with Camillus for the future - why? because its fun to do so - and to create something of a legacy one day that I hope my kids can be proud of and that people and their kids can enjoy for years to come. hope this helps a little....Les

As he mentioned, for those preferring the higher-end gear, he has the recently updated Helle Temagami and has announced the Bushman Axe by Wetterlings.

The SK Mountain looks to reasonable value at around $35.

For $35-$50 (RRP) I would probably just get another Hultafors Grovkniv GK Carbon Steel knife for around $7 and spend the rest on a proper flashlight (TANK007 TK-568 @ $14.50), Whistle (Fox 40 @ $5.50) and Signal Mirror (Starflash @ $11), Ferrocerium Rod ($5) and would probably still have enough over for a Bacho Laplander if paying full UK prices for the Les Stroud SK Mountain (if and when it becomes available)

Looks like the Les Stroud Camillus line has come out the same Chinese factory the Bear Grylls line came from.

Of the line, the Arctic knife seems to meet most of what I'd be looking for in a knife ... 4.5 inch blade, no serrations, full tang. It doesn't have all the survival goodies in the sheath like the Mountain, but it does still have the fire steel.



The Desert folder with the integrated fire steel seems interesting too.

That said, I just ordered a Fallkniven F1 so I don't see any of these in my immediate future

The knives looks pretty decent, but the machete is awfully expensive eh? Not sure if it's any better than my $15 walmart machete.

I thought Camillus was now defunct and the only thing that actually remained was the name that was sold to what amounts to a brand marketing company.

Did you order your F1 from Paul at bushcraftcanada.com? Really good dealer of fallkniven products for us Canucks. Excellent customer service as well. I like the look of the stroud knives except for the black finish. Not sure why a survival knife is so subdued but I imagine some people prefer it like that.

Once you get that F1 you will never want another knife anyway. It's hard to build on perfection.

I honestly don't expect much from these, performance-wise (Les Stroud Knives). I'm curious about the handle construction, though. Looks questionable. Anyone know if it's full tang, or partial tang?

No, I actually ordered my Fallkniven from Dale at the-knife-connection. While I like the idea of buying from a BC guy, the price difference moved me to order from south of the border.

I'm definitely looking forward to putting the F1 into use this summer .

Regarding the finish on the Stroud knives, in his promotional video Les says he likes the non-stick coating because it makes dealing with things like pine pitch easier in the field.


In that video, Les states they are full tang, but hidden for comfort / cold weather (like the F1's design).

I'm waiting for some thorough reviews to come out before I make a call on their quality & capability. I know a lot of flak was (and is) thrown Bear Grylls' way but, from all I've read, his Gerber knife turned out to be a good piece of gear for the price.

BG knives get bashed all the time by people who have never touched one, guess it's the "cool" thing to do for them, and that spills over to Stroud knives too.

Camillus is now owned by Acme United. Acme United is a U.S. based company that has operations around the world. They make a lot of school supplies, first aid stuff, and safety stuff for office supply places, Walmart, Target, ect. Not sure how their new stuff is, or where it's produced.

Now, the Schrade cutlery name was bought by Taylor brands, which is the same company that makes Smith and Wesson knives. They bought the name only though, most of their tooling and equipment was bought at auction (I know some went to Benchmade knives). I believe all of their new Schrade line is made overseas.

However, if you want a U.S. made Schrade, Canal Street cutlery was formed by many of the bladesmiths from the original Schrade factory. They're still making knives, albeit in smaller batches and at a higher price point (though with better fit/finish).



I agree with this. I've got a couple of BG knives and I've found absolutely nothing wrong with them. They're fine knives for the price point they are being sold at.

I mean, I've seen his fine edged fixed blade selling for ~$40....that gets you a fixed blade with the quality of a typical Gerber knife, a ferro-rod, a whistle, a simple diamond sharpener, and an ok sheath (all in a high visibility orange). I'd rather see the masses carrying something like that than a lot of the other garbage being sold out there.

Full tang then. Thank you.

Regarding the BG knives-I guess the prudent question to ask would have been "what do I expect from a $40 survival knife?".

You asked "what do I expect from a $40 survival knife" and an answer is this.Many people swear by a $15.00 Mora of Sweden knife and use them long and hard.It's okay to check out gear reviews but one should remember that reviews are ONE persons opinion........


BOATMAN
John

The original retail at my employer was $26.99 for the BG Scout folder. It is on Price Drop (Clearance) and I purchased it for $12.60 + tax. Online, it retails currently for $29.

I have been carrying it for six days as EDC and like it. A good & trusted friend is very enthusiastic about the sheath knife.

I'd be willing to try the LS Arctic, but I'm not thrilled about the silver color of the grip.

Honestly, I think it's fair to say that I could spend $40 on a knife and end up with something which would not let me down in the wild.

Maybe it won't excel at anything, but I think for that price I could end up with a model that could do everything it needs to adequately.

For example, I watched the Equip 2 Endure knife test & review of the BG Ultimate Survival knife and, while I don't think he was awe struck by the knife by any measure, the only signifigant complaint I recall had to do with the serrations and the beating they took when he batonned with the knife (something Gerber has since addressed by releasing the "fine edge" version). All in all, it seems like a capable knife for the outdoors & wilderness survival.

You are probably right. One could, most likely, get by well enough with either the BG or the LS knives. My gripe with both, though, is that I feel that neither of the blade designs are optimal for survival knives. I (personally)doubt that either BG or LS had anything to do with the designs, no matter what their "official" stance on the matter is.

Look at the grinds on the blades Mr. Ritter designed, for example. The grinds are very high, and flat for optimum cutting angle. Some grinds almost reach the blades' spines. There are no swedges or false cutting edges on the spines either. That's so A: one doesn't destroy their baton, and B: more energy from the swing goes into the object of the batonning, instead of into your baton being cut by the false edge.

The design of the BG and LS knives are more of a tactical design with a survival color scheme, IMHO. Like I said, either knife would probably do well enough, but purpose designed tools always perform better, and those (to me, at least) are not designed for the right purpose. YMMV. Oh, thanks for the links, BTW. Enjoyed watching the vids.

Fair enough, none of the designs are exactly what I'd be looking for either.


For me, I'll take the guys at their word as they both seem to be pretty straight forward guys and I don't have a compelling reason to believe otherwise (I don't know what Bear has said about his involvement, though I recall hearing somewhere that he was more involved in the newer Compact Fixed Blade design than some of the others). That said, I would also assume they weren't 100% behind every design decision though; I'd guess it would be fair to say that some choices would be driven by the company, others by the men themselves. Assuming a true collaboration, of course.


I definitely agree with you here, I don't see the point of a false top edge either. There were a couple knives I was considering purchasing that did have that "feature" and I did count it as a negative to the design when evaluating my options (e.g., Grohmann #4, Fallkniven S1).

I just love all this talk about "celebrity" survival knives - way too much emphasis on what is really a very simple, commonplace tool that has been available for thousands of years.

A basic, simple SAK has worked just fine for me in routine outdoors work as well as the occasional dicey situation for decades. For my money, anything over 4" is excessive, and there are many blades available for $40 that are perfectly adequate. Recall that Aron Ralston performed major surgery with a cheap, knockoff multi-tool.

If one wishes to lug around a heavy "Rambo" type cutting tool, that is fine, but chances are, there are better uses for the money and weight involved.

And yet, it seems that everyone who relies upon a knife has come up with their own set of ideal characteristics that a knife should have, from George W. Sears to Doug Ritter and I doubt these are the first or last gentlemen who will be advocating, and yes even selling, their ideal blade designs.

I would guess this pattern goes back well before Nessmuk and will continue as long as men use knives in the outdoors and have a public platform.

I think this discussion became what it did because of the questions on many people minds. Like whether this latest breed of televised outdoorsman (i.e., Grylls & Stroud) are actually promoting their own ideals or are just putting their name on product, and if they are promoting tools which would be a liability as opposed to a benefit in the field compared to what is already available on the market.


I don't think any of the knives discussed so far would fall into this category; they all pretty much fall into the 4"-5" range.

Jim Bowie comes to mind.

And here's something to think about as well. Knives have been around for roughly 2 and 1/2 million years:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knife

and although the construction methods and materials have changed, the basic design has remained relatively unchanged. There's a reason for that.

Indeed thousands of years old, if not more. One of man's first tools. And as such, there have been MANY variations of it developed for different purposes, which is what makes them interesting, and worth discussing.





Well said. I've enjoyed this discussion, and feel like it's been worthwhile.