Let me edit this for content ...

I think the point of the spray is that it's a LOT easier to aim a "fog" versus the "pencil beam" of a bullet when under stress, rushed, slipping in the mud while the bear tries to hump your leg or whatever.

I didn't read the article, but I would agree the idea of effectiveness of a pistol is a lot easier to agree w/ conceptually. No one carries a rifle up and ready when in the woods. Slung, or on your backpack typically. A pistol at least can be holstered and removed relatively quickly. So can bear spray. I have a feeling (not fact!) that the speed to deployment is one of the biggest factors bear spray has in it's favor.

Someone needs to invent a bear spray that starts popping off fire-crackers (or bullets) simultaneously.

As long as we're talking about anecdotal experiences, I've seen maybe 10 black bears over the years. Closest was sniffing our tent one night (thanks, tent-mate). Farthest was maybe 50 yards. Like some others here, I rank bear attack pretty low on my threat assessment. If I were to live where grizzlies do, I might raise it a couple of notches.

It all comes down to individual choices, doesn't it? We make these all the the time in choosing our preparation/survival strategies and tool kits. The threads in this forum I find very helpful in considering and refining my choices and developing strategies.

The strident, emotional level of invective in some of the posts in this thread are less than helpful and are not in line with the typical discourse here. It would help if we would play nicely together.

Since SAR experience has been cited, I can't resist chiming in. I did my first SAR more than fifty years ago and have contributed to hundreds of operations since then, mostly in southern Arizona. During that time, I have seen no operations involving bears (none involving rattlesnakes either, for that matter), a few involving accidental discharge of firearms (not a huge number, but some), but many (more than the cross ties on the railroad or the stars in the skies) involving alcohol, where the blood levels at autopsy indicated the victim was legally drunk. These typically involved a fall from great height sufficient to cause death. By a wide margin, the major cause of fatalities was falling from height (usually more than forty feet); usually the victim had wandered inadvertently into steep terrain and did not have the equipment or experience to deal with the situation.

The common denominator among the victims was inexperience or unfamiliarity with the environment. Oddly enough, during the period during which I was most active, we had more fatalities from drowning and floods than from dehydration and heat. This has changed somewhat in recent years in southern Arizona because of the influx from south of the border. We lost more people from cold weather than from heat, as well.

I own and use firearms - one of my most cherished possessions in my S&W M28, owned since 1964, and used seriously on a few occasions. Mostly I don't carry it because other items are far more likely to be useful, like a good climbing rope or a full canteen, an extra fleece, or a handful of matches. That is my choice and yours may differ; that's fine.

The fact that we are having this discussion is good - we are thinking about the problem. The majority of people getting in trouble in the outdoors do so because they don't even consider that they could get into trouble. Any strategy is better than no strategy.

Based on what I have learned, the next time I am in serious bear country, I will probably carry bear spray, based on what seem to me to be fairly clear, unbiased statistics. Others are welcome to do otherwise. The bottom line is that it is unlikely that any of us will ever suffer a bear mauling; we are far more likely to die in an automobile accident or suffer death by honey bee, for that matter.

[quote=MDinana No one carries a rifle up and ready when in the woods. [/quote]

REALLY! My guess is you have not been in big bear country.

My problems with bear spray are simple. What if it's windy? You have to let the bear get too close for comfort. What if I panic. Firearms training is easy, not so easy, or inexpensive with cans of spray. Also, many men, myself included, would feel immasculated with a can of spray vs say a .454 Casull magnum. Just my opinion.

I already have put my money where my mouth is. In my gun safe I have several options for carrying powerfull firearms in bear country. In fact, two of those powerful firearems have proven to kill bears (my 30-06 on a black bear hunt in Prince William Sound, and my 338 Win Mag on a brown bear hunt on Kodiak). I also own a S&W 629 44 Mag, and a 12 gauge shotgun with 18 inch barrel, but have not killed anything with either of those. Nevertheless, unless I am planning on hunting, they stay in the gun safe.

I spend many days each summer hiking, backpacking, and paddling in Alaska. I have been doing so for well over 20 years. I have considered the risk of bear attack, the effectiveness of firearms vs pepper spray, and the weight of firearms vs pepper spray.

I do not routinely carry a firearm. I do carry pepper spray. My choice.

There are only two occaisions anymore when I carry a firearm in the woods. One is when hunting. The other is when doing geologic field work, because my employer requires it as a matter of policy (they don't give me a choice).

If you choose to carry a firearm for bear protection (I do not), the best place to shoot is to try to break the shoulder. This is the recommendation of most bear hunting guides.

The brain is actually relatively small, and is encased in a very thick skull, with a sloping front. Not an easy shot, and if you are off even slightly, you may have a very angry bear with a bad headache. Heart or lung shots will certainly kill the bear, but may not stop it in time.

The shoulder is a reasonably large target, and if hit will stop or at least slow the charge. Also, if the shoulder is hit, the bullet will generally pass on through into the vital organs. Note that this assumes a weapon with sufficient penetration! Bears may look rolly polly, but underneath are solid muscle, and their bones are very stout, hence the recommendation for large calibers, and bullets designed for lots of penetraion (not so much expansion).

I'm not certain exactly why/how pepper spray works as well as it does, but it does.

Yes, I am a member of a volunteer SAR team. A few folks on the team carry firearms, but by far the general preference seems to be for pepper spray.

As always, these discussions of bears and guns get way too heated. I've stated my position. After looking at the odds of a bear attack (very low), and the pros and cons of firearms vs pepper spray, I have chosen to carry pepper spray.

This is probably my last post on this thread!

I guess for me the difference is that I would not be carrying a gun solely for protection against a possible bear attack. I already carry one wherever I go. We had a discussion at work about the same thing and one person suggested that a rifle would work better than a handgun. I agreed but stated I'd rather try to defend myself with the handgun I *DO* have than the rifle I don't.

I doubt the bear would give me time to run home and get a rifle or shotgun under those conditions. I'd have to go with what I have on me, which is a subcompact .45acp loaded with 10+1 230-grain JHP's. Might kill the bear, might not.

But to say that all because a person hasn't trained extensively at killing a charging bear with a gun means they couldn't is discounting the times that exactly that has occurred.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/08/31/man-kills-charging-bear-with-454-casull/

http://sleepless.blogs.com/george/2003/10/bear_killed_wit.html

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/05/31/backpackper-shoots-kills-grizzly-alaska-park/

http://abcnews.go.com/US/zanesville-depu...64#.T1zxmPXleSo

AKSAR, please don't do so because of me. The statement above was to point out that different folks make different choices. Same on the team I was on, although I don't recall seeing the spray.

I was not trying to present the quoted portion with any attitude, but was a comment from one former SAR team member to another perceived as such.

I had the same thought of dropping the thread, but that wouldn't be in what I perceive the spirit of the site to be, to learn and make our outdoor experiences safer and more enjoyable. When things go to safety and I see something I see as dangerous advice, sometimes I respond. This type of thread (firearms v. anything else in the universe) usually has some pretty definite opinions. There are no absolutes or guarantees no matter what we choose along these lines.

I carry a .45 ACP daily, except in the dead of winter or in the wilderness when I switch up to magnums. Your choice is very good for self defense, but very poor for bears. Your soft points won't penetrate deeply enough. When in bear country my minimum is a .357 magnum loaded with flat nose bullets I have cast myself of wheel wieghts with extra tin added. I load them specificlly for that gun at a hot but safe load which will give excellent penetration. As for breaking the bears shoulder that works best when he is sideways. Gun, spray or both is a personal choice. Why not carry your cup so it bangs on your pack frame or a carabiner with every step and scare the bear away before there is a confrontation?