We are in the midst of revising our troop policy manual. I am working with the Scoutmaster to change the "No sheath knife" policy into a more realistic one that actually reflects the true BSA position. "NOTE: The Boy scouts of America does not encourage the use of large sheath knives. They are heavy, awkward to carry, and unnecessary for most camp chores."

We will use our descretion as to what's acceptable, just as we would for many other safety issues, and include proper care, carry and use into our annual Tote N' Chip class we conduct each spring for new scouts.

Honestly, I don't have much experience myself, having bought my first sheath knife a little over a year ago. I bought a Scandanavian grind Helle knife from Ragnar's Ragweed Forge. His site has some info on sharpening but I'd like to know if there are more sites I can visit for research. Then I'll help design a "curiculum" (more of a sheet of guidelines) for the leaders to use this spring.

Thanks.

Willie,

Good for you on attempting to change your local policies to something more in tune with the BSA actual policy.

I think a small Mora type fixed blade offers a number of advantages to your group.....inexpensive but robust for many projects, Scandi grind is a great bevel to learn sharpening, and Ragnar has a large selection.

Another site worth looking at is BushCraft in the UK

http://www.bushcraftuk.co.uk/reviews/cutwith.html

There are some articles on the Scandanavian type knives and sharpening at Kellam Knives

http://www.kellamknives.com/cart/shop.cgi/SID=PUT_SID_HERE/page=index1.html

Joe Talmage wrote an extensive sharpening article that is at BF, I cannot remember if he covers Scandi type grinds but it is a good article anyway.

http://www.bladeforums.com/features/faqsharp.shtml

The key to the Scandi grind (a love or hate grind BTW) is that you lay the whole blade angle on the stone and sharpen that way. This is called a primary grind. In other words the correct angle to sharpen is the angle already on the blade. Lay it flat and sharpen. This is much easier to teach than the traditional secondary grinds which are dependent on keeping the angles precise. The Scandi grind is a great way to start and maintain a good sharp knife. Much sharper than most folks have ever seen if done properly. Excellent on wood projects.

Good luck,
Randy

I think some uncommon sense would serve the scouts well. Peer pressure can come into play. 1. Never take a knife from it's sheath except to use it while in the field. Return the knife immediately after use for safety and security. 2. Never, ever point,or press the blade against anything you are not willing to utterly destroy; scoutmasters, tents etc. 3. Never throw a knife. Throwing knives are specialised tools of sport. Throwing using knives invites injury and destruction of the blade. 4. knives are tools, not weapons. Never show it off or draw the knife. Once you have bonded with it, leave it be. You don't pet your dog every 5 minutes do you? 5. Always cut away from yourself (see #2) check your stance,can you slip and injure yourself?6. If tired or ill, think twice and cut once.

>>> ...press the blade against anything you are not willing to utterly destroy; scoutmasters,...<<<

Yikes!!!! <img src="images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Most of these points are identical to those one would follow for a folder. I'm interested in any tips where there are differences, such as handing a knife over to another. With a folder, you close the blade and hand it to the recepient and wait for him or her to say "thank you" to make sure they have full control before releasing the knife. With a sheath knife unsheathed, I believe you hold the knife by the blade with the edge up and present the handle to the receiver, then wait for "Thank you" before letting go. I've also heard where you present it to the reciever's opposite hand (left-to-right or right-to-left) to avoid crossing the torso. Are these correct and are there any other distinctive "rules?"

BTW, I didn't send a separate message welcoming you back as I'm sure it would have been lost amoung the thousands of emails that have piled up, but I'm very glad to see your sig on the forum again! <img src="images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for the links. I'll check them out. BTW, I'm very happy with my Scandinavian grind. Although I really haven't used it much. With the change in opinion, I'm likely to use the knife more often as I won't have to store it secretly in my pack in the tent. (I did wear it on hikes when we were away from the campsite).

I was always told "Hold by the blade, edge away from palm", and the edhe was always DOWN or horizontal

In a group situation, I would be inclined to either borrow the individual in question a folding knife, or get up and do the job myself.

It may be just me, but I feel a little irritation at the thought of borrowing someone who didn't think far enough ahead to bring their own sheath knife. The ones most likely to fit in that catagory are those that felt it was too much trouble to carry one and they would therefore depend on the others who did take the trouble to carry one. Now if we are talking about someone who brought one along and had accidently (in a reasonable manner.) lost or broken their knife, I would feel comfortable borrowing them mine only if I didn't want to get up, or couldn't get up and do the job myself with my sheath knife.

I developed this mindset after once borrowing three rifles and one shotgun to some friends who promptly went hunting with the loaded guns under a blanket in the back of their station wagon. They got caught and I had to travel 40+ miles and appear in a courtroom to get my guns back which had been confiscated and almost auctioned off. If this had happened in todays social atmosphere, I would never have gotten my guns back.

I would make allowances where I knew the individuals had financial problems that didn't allow them to spend money on a sheath knife.

Bountyhunter

Peter of Fallkniven knives was working on a pamphlet of knife use for the swedish armed forces. Even the land of the Vikings has seen a loss of this timeless skill. I know knives are commonly pushed in tasks that try even the wunder steels and big blades in current vogue. Fallkniven has an exposed tang specifically incorporated for a northern method of felling small trees. Still, with modern steels and a dedicated methodology, Peter cautions against hammering any knife. If you could find a mentor locally, just watch. I've observed older woodsmen perform tasks with half the time and effort ( and wounds. ) This is a fascinating, and sadly ignored subject. I see a future chapter for the knife section ( I'll do it Doug <img src="images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />.)

In my Troop, no one ever really uses sheath knives---its a taboo item. Having taught survival for some years now, I know that this is completely insane. Sure, I break the "sheath knife rule" all the time, bringing along my Cold Steel Trail Master. Like Chris said, I only take it out in an extreme emergency. There's nothing quite like seeing someone taking out a huge blade just to slice bread, etc. I've been hired to work at one of the high adventure bases as a trail guide, where I plan on taking my sheath knife with me. So much more can be accomplished with a fixed blade, compared to a little Swiss Army knife, so having this item is a necessity for me, along with a Leatherman and folding knife. I believe that the Boy Scout Supply Division even had a sheath knife for sale up until the 1970's. So much has changed now. On the topic of lending knives, I always carry a $12 Victorinox Recruit to "lend" to Scouts. There's no way I would let Johnny Camper run off with my Benchmade AFCK...

Sometimes timing is everything!

It was just pure coincidence that our Scoutmaster had a similar discussion at an Outdoor Skills training session where the instructor pointed out the misconception.

After a few emails about some possible rewording options, we have decided the simplest option is to simply strike the language from the troop policy manual and then include proper use and care in our instruction, just as we would for folders. The BSA's wording would be included and we's ask the scouts to show us their knifes for review, just as we do for folders.

This has to be formally approved by the troop committee as it's a change in the policy, but it's a positive step forward on this small by important issue.