#239785 - 01/21/12 12:23 AM
Learning Navigation
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 2986
Loc: Nacogdoches, Texas
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Can anyone recommend a book that will introduce me to navigating? I don't want to get into using orienteering compasses just yet. Something that will get into the introductions like reading a map (not a road map) so I will know if this is something I want to pursue further.
Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
I'm not sure whose twisted idea it was to put hundreds of adolescents in underfunded schools run by people whose dreams were crushed years ago, but I admire the sadism. -- Wednesday Adams, Wednesday
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#239787 - 01/21/12 12:36 AM
Re: Learning Navigation
[Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
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Journeyman
Registered: 05/26/06
Posts: 77
Loc: Cochise Co., AZ
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There are tons of books and videos out there, but here is a 3-D technique I've used in the past for beginers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axaO9602lvAYou might watch his other vids until other members here make their suggestions.
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#239788 - 01/21/12 12:53 AM
Re: Learning Navigation
[Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
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"Be Prepared"
Pooh-Bah
Registered: 06/26/04
Posts: 2211
Loc: NE Wisconsin
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Some time back I did some searching (and too much buying) to find a great book on map/compass/GPS land navigation. There are some pretty good ones out there, but the one that I really liked was "The Essential Wilderness Navigator: How to Find Your Way in the Great Outdoors" by David Seidman & Paul Cleveland. Here's the Amazon.com link if that helps: http://www.amazon.com/Essential-Wilderne...6165&sr=1-7What did I like? The descriptions of "how" are very well done - written in a nicely understandable way and realistic. I also think the coverage of techniques (what's covered) is excellent. It points out that the most important part of navigation is always knowing where you are on the map, and watching/remembering key landmarks. An especially important section describes in a pretty realistic way what to do when you realize you're lost. I tended to find that many of the books focus on just map & compass navigation, which is important, but today the use of a GPS is a critical element too. Also, too many books focus on the different models of compasses - or GPSs - and are somewhat out of date at this point.
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#239789 - 01/21/12 01:34 AM
Re: Learning Navigation
[Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
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Geezer in Chief
Geezer
Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
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The classic is Bjorn Kjellstrom's "Be Expert With Map and Compass." The best thing to do is obtain a map (preferably topo map) and get out and do it. If you are going to spend any time outdoors, navigation by map is an essential, bedrock skill.
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Geezer in Chief
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#239794 - 01/21/12 02:53 AM
Re: Learning Navigation
[Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
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Addict
Registered: 07/06/03
Posts: 550
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+ 1 on the Bjorn Kjellstrom's "Be Expert With Map and Compass." It is a workbook that carries you through the entire navigation process. Best book I have found on map and compass. I still work my way through mine every few years for a refresh.
_________________________
No, I am not Bear Grylls, but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night and Bear was there too!
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#239821 - 01/21/12 06:15 PM
Re: Learning Navigation
[Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 2986
Loc: Nacogdoches, Texas
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I do not know if it will be helpful in my situation, after all I want to start with map reading to see if this is something I want to pursue, but a book I have my eye on is Using Your GPS with the UTM Map Coordinate System by John Carnes. http://www.amazon.com/Universal-Transver...8870&sr=1-1Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
I'm not sure whose twisted idea it was to put hundreds of adolescents in underfunded schools run by people whose dreams were crushed years ago, but I admire the sadism. -- Wednesday Adams, Wednesday
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#239826 - 01/21/12 08:01 PM
Re: Learning Navigation
[Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
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Old Hand
Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 745
Loc: NC
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Get the map and compass book and disregard any GPS stuff until you have mastered the basics. Kjellstrom's book is outstanding.
You need to be comfortable with a map, knowing what the symbols and markings mean, how to terrain associate, and how to navigate with a compass.
If you can land navigate without a GPS, having one is great and a timesaver. If you can't navigate without a GPS, once the batteries die you are pretty well hosed.
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#239834 - 01/21/12 09:34 PM
Re: Learning Navigation
[Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
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Veteran
Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1233
Loc: Alaska
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I do not know if it will be helpful in my situation, after all I want to start with map reading to see if this is something I want to pursue, but a book I have my eye on is Using Your GPS with the UTM Map Coordinate System by John Carnes. http://www.amazon.com/Universal-Transver...8870&sr=1-1Jeanette Isabelle As JBMat notes, it is much better to aquire a basic understanding of map and compass before moving on to GPS. Likewise, while the UTM grid system has some advantages in some situations, it is something to be learned after you have first learned the basics. (Also, note that not all maps are overlain with a full UTM grid.) I would strongly second the recommendation to start with the Kjellstrom book, or perhaps the Seidman book. An even more important thing to do, which hikermor recommended, is to get a topo map of some area you visit, and spend some time using it. Being on the ground with map in hand is far and away the best method to learn. There is no substitute for walking over terrain and at the same time seeing how it is portrayed on the map. Any book is at best only a supplement to that, not a replacement. Playing around out of doors with a map is also a lot of fun!
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"Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas any more." -Dorothy, in The Wizard of Oz
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#239842 - 01/21/12 11:26 PM
Re: Learning Navigation
[Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
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Veteran
Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 1372
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+1 with what KenK said above. And I don't know the book by Bjorn K.
I second the advice to learn basic map and compass navigation first. It is the right place to start.
Pete2
Edited by Pete (01/21/12 11:28 PM)
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#239846 - 01/22/12 12:51 AM
Re: Learning Navigation
[Re: jshannon]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 2986
Loc: Nacogdoches, Texas
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I find that books are more complete than what I can find online. The Internet is great for quick references and sometimes it has great articles such as those written by Dr. Brent Blue and Doug Ritter but a book is more in depth on its given subject. Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
I'm not sure whose twisted idea it was to put hundreds of adolescents in underfunded schools run by people whose dreams were crushed years ago, but I admire the sadism. -- Wednesday Adams, Wednesday
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#239851 - 01/22/12 01:33 AM
Re: Learning Navigation
[Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
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Geezer in Chief
Geezer
Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
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Kjellstrom's book should be available in any decent public or university library....
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Geezer in Chief
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#239853 - 01/22/12 02:02 AM
Re: Learning Navigation
[Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
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Old Hand
Registered: 01/28/10
Posts: 1174
Loc: MN, Land O' Lakes & Rivers ...
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I find that books are more complete than what I can find online. The Internet is great for quick references and sometimes it has great articles such as those written by Dr. Brent Blue and Doug Ritter but a book is more in depth on its given subject. Jeanette Isabelle Here's a link to a used copy for $2.34 plus shipping http://product.half.ebay.com/Be-Expert-W...376&tg=info
_________________________
The man got the powr but the byrd got the wyng
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#239857 - 01/22/12 02:36 AM
Re: Learning Navigation
[Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
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Addict
Registered: 06/29/05
Posts: 648
Loc: Arizona
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When I have a few more minutes I will post some more resources; This is the newest edition of Basic Land Navigation for Firefighters http://tinyurl.com/6tpr8st It isn't the best text and it goes into some aspects of land navigation that are rarely of use to non-firefighters but it is good none the less.
_________________________
"Trust in God --and press-check. You cannot ignore danger and call it faith." -Duke
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#239862 - 01/22/12 03:11 AM
Re: Learning Navigation
[Re: Byrd_Huntr]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 2986
Loc: Nacogdoches, Texas
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I've learned to be leery of eBay. Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
I'm not sure whose twisted idea it was to put hundreds of adolescents in underfunded schools run by people whose dreams were crushed years ago, but I admire the sadism. -- Wednesday Adams, Wednesday
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#239890 - 01/22/12 04:01 PM
Re: Learning Navigation
[Re: widget]
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Veteran
Registered: 07/23/08
Posts: 1502
Loc: Mesa, AZ
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+ 1 on the Bjorn Kjellstrom's "Be Expert With Map and Compass." It is a workbook that carries you through the entire navigation process. Best book I have found on map and compass. I still work my way through mine every few years for a refresh. +1
_________________________
Don't just survive. Thrive.
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#239891 - 01/22/12 04:36 PM
Re: Learning Navigation
[Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
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Enthusiast
Registered: 08/17/09
Posts: 305
Loc: Central Oregon
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The books I use for references in my navigation classes are: Map and Compass: "Staying Found" by June Fleming GPS: "GPS Made Easy" by Letham I have a list of navigation articles/posts on my web site: http://outdoorquest.biz/PostsonLandNavigation.htmYou are certainly getting lots of great suggestions in this thread.
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#239933 - 01/23/12 10:22 AM
Re: Learning Navigation
[Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
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Enthusiast
Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 382
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I find that books are more complete than what I can find online. The Internet is great for quick references and sometimes it has great articles such as those written by Dr. Brent Blue and Doug Ritter but a book is more in depth on its given subject. Jeanette Isabelle They have internet books The one Alan posted, from National Wildfire Coordinating Group, PMS 475 --- Basic Land Navigation --- June 2007 From US Army FM 3-25.26: Map Reading And Land NavigationFrom Australian Emergency Management, Manual 36 Map Reading and NavigationFrom Washington State University, EM2474 Outdoor Navigation with Map and CompassVia BackcountryAttitude, wikipedia, and some search engines REI Navigation Basics: Map and CompassHelping Your Child Learn GeographyFinding Your Way with Map and CompassHow To Use a Compass with a USGS Topographic MapWhat Do Maps Show?27 Ideas for Teaching With Topographic MapsIntroduction to Topographic MapsHow to use a compassOA Guide to Map & Compass part of The Backpacker's Field Manual A RuckSack primer on... Land navigation: Tactics & strategies for using maps, compasses, ranger pacing beads, & GPS units to solve complex navigational problems in the bush THE AMERICAN PRACTICAL NAVIGATOR, maritime navigation Instructor/Student handbook and slideshows, ppt/pdf LAND NAVIGATION with MAP and LENSATIC COMPASS Teach yourself and others in the knowledge of "WILDERNESS TRAVEL" United States National GridDemonstration of USNG on a Google Maphttp://nationalatlas.gov/http://nationalmap.gov/
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#239934 - 01/23/12 01:13 PM
Re: Learning Navigation
[Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
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Old Hand
Registered: 06/03/09
Posts: 982
Loc: Norway
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A good way to learn is to grab a map and bring it with you. Associating what you see around you with what you see on the map is learned through practice.
The books can teach you problem solving techniques and practical tips. But the real meat is trying those techniques in the field.
You can bring a map whenever you are passenger in a car, a train or a bus. Or every time you go to the local park. Or whatever. Practice, practice, practice.
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#239938 - 01/23/12 04:01 PM
Re: Learning Navigation
[Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
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Veteran
Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 1372
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"The books can teach you problem solving techniques and practical tips. But the real meat is trying those techniques in the field. "
Very true.
If you lived near a large region of wilderness I would suggest that you try the exercise below. But don't do it - if it will compromise your safety in any way. This exercise is best done on land where there is scrub brush - with bushes higher than you head. So you can't easily see where you came from, or where you are going.
* Pick a starting point on the edge of a road or fence. * Walk about half a mile on a specified compass bearing. * Make a turn of 120 degrees to the right (e.g. if you first bearing was 60 degrees, next one is 180 degrees). * Walk exactly the same distance again * Make another turn of 120 degrees to the right * Walk exactly the same distance again
If you do this right - you will walk an exact equilateral triangle, and come back precisely to your original starting point.
But practically, this little exercise will show you that a lot of things can go wrong when doing an (apparently) simple exercise.
Good luck! Pete2
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#239940 - 01/23/12 04:28 PM
Re: Learning Navigation
[Re: Pete]
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Geezer in Chief
Geezer
Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
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That is a good exercise, but it is difficult to execute on land. Terrain with brush that is head high will not allow one to usually walk in anything like a straight line, but trying it will certainly show some of the problems.
On water, it is a different story. Just add night or fog and you have great conditions for this exercise. A compass is many times more useful on the water, compared to a good many terrestrial environments.
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Geezer in Chief
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#239956 - 01/23/12 08:26 PM
Re: Learning Navigation
[Re: EMPnotImplyNuclear]
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Enthusiast
Registered: 08/17/09
Posts: 305
Loc: Central Oregon
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I find that books are more complete than what I can find online. The Internet is great for quick references and sometimes it has great articles such as those written by Dr. Brent Blue and Doug Ritter but a book is more in depth on its given subject. Jeanette Isabelle They have internet books The one Alan posted, from National Wildfire Coordinating Group, PMS 475 --- Basic Land Navigation --- June 2007 From US Army FM 3-25.26: Map Reading And Land NavigationFrom Australian Emergency Management, Manual 36 Map Reading and NavigationFrom Washington State University, EM2474 Outdoor Navigation with Map and CompassVia BackcountryAttitude, wikipedia, and some search engines REI Navigation Basics: Map and CompassHelping Your Child Learn GeographyFinding Your Way with Map and CompassHow To Use a Compass with a USGS Topographic MapWhat Do Maps Show?27 Ideas for Teaching With Topographic MapsIntroduction to Topographic MapsHow to use a compassOA Guide to Map & Compass part of The Backpacker's Field Manual A RuckSack primer on... Land navigation: Tactics & strategies for using maps, compasses, ranger pacing beads, & GPS units to solve complex navigational problems in the bush THE AMERICAN PRACTICAL NAVIGATOR, maritime navigation Instructor/Student handbook and slideshows, ppt/pdf LAND NAVIGATION with MAP and LENSATIC COMPASS Teach yourself and others in the knowledge of "WILDERNESS TRAVEL" United States National GridDemonstration of USNG on a Google Maphttp://nationalatlas.gov/http://nationalmap.gov/ Now that is a very comprehensive listing. Thank you. Blake
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#239963 - 01/24/12 12:09 AM
Re: Learning Navigation
[Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
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Addict
Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 647
Loc: North Texas
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http://dallassierraclub.org/calendar.htm?c=outMar 14 (Wed) Wilderness Navigation Class - Part 1 Learn the fundamentals of finding your way in the wilderness in this two evening class. Among the subjects covered are: purchasing maps, how to read maps, how not to get lost, what to do if you do get lost, GPS, different kinds of compasses, and how to use your compass. If you have a compass, bring it to the class. If you don't have one, we will show you what to look for when you purchase one. The class will be held at the Dallas REI store (second floor program room). 4515 LBJ Freeway, north side, between Midway and Welch. This two-night class (second night March 15) will start promptly at 6:30 PM and will finish at about 8:45 PM. The fee for the class is $15 for Sierra Club members and $20 for non-members (CASH or CHECK ONLY). No reservations are necessary; just show up. Contact: Bill Greer 972-964-1781(h) Mar 15 (Thu) Wilderness Navigation Class - Part 2 This is the second night a two part class. See the class listing above (March 14) for details. Contact: Bill Greer 972-964-1781(h)
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#239965 - 01/24/12 12:27 AM
Re: Learning Navigation
[Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 2986
Loc: Nacogdoches, Texas
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Update: I checked the online catalog. The Central Library, Dallas, has two available copies of Be Expert With Map & Compass by Bjorn Hjellstrom. What I did not check is the days the Central Library is open. Most likely the earliest day I can make it back is Friday.
Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
I'm not sure whose twisted idea it was to put hundreds of adolescents in underfunded schools run by people whose dreams were crushed years ago, but I admire the sadism. -- Wednesday Adams, Wednesday
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#239966 - 01/24/12 12:46 AM
Re: Learning Navigation
[Re: hikermor]
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Veteran
Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 1372
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You do need the right terrain and vegetation. I usually do it in certain parts of the desert, where local bushes grow above eye level, but there is reasonable room to walk between them. A landscpae dotted with occasional trees would also work fine. You need enough brush cover to obscure your original starting point.
In principle, it can also be done on a perfectly flat field. Just place a quarter on the grass where you start, and see how close you come to the coin when you get back to "Home". It's just a matter of having no visible ladmarks near the startign point that will allow you to (subsconsciously) cheat :-)
cheers, pete2
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#239968 - 01/24/12 12:58 AM
Re: Learning Navigation
[Re: jshannon]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 2986
Loc: Nacogdoches, Texas
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If you have a compass, bring it to the class. If you don't have one, we will show you what to look for when you purchase one. That is something I was wanting to address later, once I learn enough to know this is something I want to pursue further. What compass do I get? Doug Ritter and John McCann seem to recommend Suunto. I am not broke but I have to watch my money. I do not want to buy a basic orienteering compass and later buy another compass if this turns out something I want to pursue. On the other hand I do not want to buy a higher-end compass only to find out this is something I do not want to pursue further. As you can see, I live in the Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex. Do I need an adjustable or a fixed declination correction scale in Texas? Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
I'm not sure whose twisted idea it was to put hundreds of adolescents in underfunded schools run by people whose dreams were crushed years ago, but I admire the sadism. -- Wednesday Adams, Wednesday
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#239969 - 01/24/12 01:02 AM
Re: Learning Navigation
[Re: Pete]
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Geezer in Chief
Geezer
Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
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if I were to suffer your "ordeal," I would cheat like mad - taking an accurate compass bearing, relating to some sort of generally visible landmark in the distance ( mountain, tall tree, grain elevator- you name it), and then marching off, probably counting paces to handle the distance covered.
I know of no desert, at least here in North America, that fortunately isn't replete with all kinds of terrain features - at a very minimum, distant mountain ranges..
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Geezer in Chief
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#239972 - 01/24/12 02:12 AM
Re: Learning Navigation
[Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
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Stranger
Registered: 03/18/11
Posts: 10
Loc: Central Pennsylvania
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The Suunto Partner A-10 is a good general purpose compass that runs for about $13-14. I have a Brunton 9020G which I have used for awhile & it has served me well. It is also a good general purpose compass in the same price range, either one would be a good choice.
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#239974 - 01/24/12 03:04 AM
Re: Learning Navigation
[Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
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Old Hand
Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 882
Loc: Colorado
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Orienteering can be done with a simple baseplate & capsule (Silva style) compass. That's how it started. I've never tried walking a heading (never had reason to and probably wouldn't do it very well). I've steered a heading at sea, flown a heading in aircraft but when I'm out in the wilds I use orienteering-style navigation where the compass gives information but isn't a slavishly followed means of holding heading. I use catch features and topo visualization mostly.
I've assembled and taught a small land navigation instruction module for folks taking an aviation archeology course. We want them to stay found while looking for wrecks and feel that rudimentary navigation has to be covered.
JeanetteIsabelle shoot me a PM with your email and I'll email you my powerpoint.
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#239975 - 01/24/12 03:59 AM
Re: Learning Navigation
[Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
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Geezer in Chief
Geezer
Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
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As you can see, I live in the Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex. Do I need an adjustable or a fixed declination correction scale in Texas?
Jeanette Isabelle
You definitely want an adjustable scale. In fact, I think that is the only type that is generally available. After all, you hopefully will be fortunate enough to leave DFW someday. In addition, declination is not a constant. It changes continually, although the change is measured in fractions of a degree per year and is typically inconsequential. I really should apologize for the snarky comment about Dallas-Fort Worth. I spent way too much of my childhood in Dallas. Happiness was Big D in my rearview mirror.
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Geezer in Chief
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#239987 - 01/24/12 03:11 PM
Re: Learning Navigation
[Re: hikermor]
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Enthusiast
Registered: 08/17/09
Posts: 305
Loc: Central Oregon
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I recommend a compass that you can adjust for declination. The 9020G is a good start as is the Suunto M2. My favorite is the Silva Ranger but you can expect to pay about $50. Check out www.magnetic-declination.com for current declination info. Remember, many of the topo's available have declination data that is out of date. Best of luck, Blake www.outdoorquest.blogspot.com
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#239988 - 01/24/12 03:16 PM
Re: Learning Navigation
[Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
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Old Hand
Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 882
Loc: Colorado
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I disagree that adjustable declination is a necessary feature in a compass.
It's nice but, really, necessary for a beginner?
Knowing what the declination for the area is can be important but even that isn't truly necessary if you're using catch features and other orienteering-style methods. Surveying, yes, rambling the woods - not so much.
The USGS has made their topo maps into downloadable PDFs for free from their website. This means that you can get the study material for your favorite area at no cost and study them on your computer. I suppose sections can also be printed out (I haven't tried that trick yet).
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#239992 - 01/24/12 03:53 PM
Re: Learning Navigation
[Re: unimogbert]
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Geezer in Chief
Geezer
Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
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Hopefully, the beginner will ascend to journeyman and eventually Grand Master status and may find the declination adjustment useful. In most of the country where I roam, the declination is about 15 degrees or so, but if I travel to the Pacific Northwest, I might want to tweak it a bit. It is just a nice feature that renders the compass a bit more versatile.
On my Suunto, the declination scale also serves a a clinometer, which can be extremely valuable in some situations.
One always has the option of simply navigating by magnetic north. With marine charts, where magnetic north is clearly indicated, that is often the best course to follow.....
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Geezer in Chief
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#240018 - 01/24/12 10:12 PM
Re: Learning Navigation
[Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
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"Be Prepared"
Pooh-Bah
Registered: 06/26/04
Posts: 2211
Loc: NE Wisconsin
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If you always orient your paper map, then it doesn't really matter whether you're using a declination-corrected compass or a non-corrected compass. If the compass points in "that" direction in the real world, it will point in "that same" direction on the paper map. You just have to make sure you're using the correct North-South reference line on the map. If your compass is MD-corrected, then you need to use a true North-South line on the map - typically this is a longitude line since they are always true north. If your compass is not MD-corrected (pointing to mag. north), then you'll need to use the little magnetic north (MN) line on the map's north indicator symbol that shows true north (TN), magnetic north (MN), and grid north (GN). Sounds good eh? Well, the problem is that most USGS topo maps are really old ... and the magnetic declination has changed since the map was published. That can sometimes be a fair amount. While I DO orient my map to north before I use it, I prefer to use true north for two reasons: (1) because I find it easier to use the edge of the topo map (which is a longitude), than the lttle MN line, and (2) because that little MN line is typically off by some amount. Does that amount matter? For finding trails and paths, no, probably not. But for doing triangulation, it can make a pretty big difference. If I carry a GPS, typically I'm not going to need to do triangulation. Which brings up an even more important issue ... it is critical that you set up your GPS so that: 1. Your GPS datum matches the datum printed on your map. Most USGS topo maps use NAD27, though I'm told some are starting to use the GPS default of WGS84. 2. Make sure your GPS "North Reference" is set up to match your compass. If you have your compass adjusted for magnetic declination, set your GPS to "True North". If your compass is not MD-corrected, set your GPS to "Magnetic North". This is important if you use your GPS to calculate a heading to a waypoint. BTW, Garmin provdes a pretty nice phamplet that introduces how to use a map, compass, and GPS together: http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/UsingaGarminGPSwithPaperLandMaps_Manual.pdfWhen I was a young Boy Scout I was taught to draw magnetic N-S lines on my map and only use those lines. This allowed me to use the map without orienting the map to north. It is much faster that way. Today I'll do the same thing but with true N-S lines and a compass that is adjusted for magnetic declination ... and a GPS set to "True North".
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#240022 - 01/24/12 11:05 PM
Re: Learning Navigation
[Re: KenK]
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Veteran
Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1233
Loc: Alaska
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If your compass is not MD-corrected (pointing to mag. north), then you'll need to use the little magnetic north (MN) line on the map's north indicator symbol that shows true north (TN), magnetic north (MN), and grid north (GN). Be aware that little MN line on the symbol is diagramatic only! The number of degrees it states is good (as of the stated date), however the actual angle depicted is diagramtic only! According to the USGS pamphlet Finding Your Way with Map and Compass: "A diagram in the map margin will show the difference (declination) at the center of the map between compass north (magnetic north indicated by the MN symbol) and true north (polar north indicated by the "star" symbol). This diagram also provides the declination between true north and the orientation of the Universal Transverse Mercator (UTM) grid north (indicated by the GN symbol). The declination diagram is only representational, and true values of the angles of declination should be taken from the numbers provided rather than from the directional lines."
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"Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas any more." -Dorothy, in The Wizard of Oz
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#240025 - 01/24/12 11:30 PM
Re: Learning Navigation
[Re: AKSAR]
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"Be Prepared"
Pooh-Bah
Registered: 06/26/04
Posts: 2211
Loc: NE Wisconsin
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Eeek! I did not know that. Thanks!
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#240033 - 01/25/12 01:09 AM
Re: Learning Navigation
[Re: KenK]
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Geezer in Chief
Geezer
Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
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Thi is all quite true, and definitely worth knowing. However, if one is referencing to terrain features, which is about 99% of the time, it is irrelevant.
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Geezer in Chief
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#240039 - 01/25/12 02:15 AM
Re: Learning Navigation
[Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
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Old Hand
Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 882
Loc: Colorado
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Another great way to learn of the actual declination in your area is to get an aviation map - a "sectional." Those charts expire every 6 months so you may be able to get a free one at the small airport or from a pilot friend.
It would have the current (within 6 months) figure.
Indeed the USGS figures can't be right as many of the maps, at least the ones I look at, haven't been updated since 1960.
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#240042 - 01/25/12 02:45 AM
Re: Learning Navigation
[Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
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Veteran
Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 1372
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Jeanette
Here's a quick method for getting the mag declination of your location ...
First - can you post me the latitude and longitude of the town or city where you live? If that's too private, give me the lat and long coordinates for a major city close by you.
Pete2
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#240044 - 01/25/12 03:18 AM
Re: Learning Navigation
[Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
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Stranger
Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 9
Loc: Ne
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I have been using the Online Declination Calculator from NOAA's National Geophysical Data Center when I need to find the declination for an area. http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/geomagmodels/struts/calcDeclinationfrom what I can tell it accurately covers a local park that has a declination 1.5 deg greater then just a few miles away. The values compare favorably with several major land marks you can see at quite a distance thanks to the local terrain.
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#240057 - 01/25/12 09:07 AM
Re: Learning Navigation
[Re: hikermor]
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Veteran
Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1233
Loc: Alaska
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For brevity (and because it's late and I need to get to bed) I will lump replies to a couple of comments together. To KenK regarding datums:Which brings up an even more important issue ... it is critical that you set up your GPS so that: 1. Your GPS datum matches the datum printed on your map. Most USGS topo maps use NAD27, though I'm told some are starting to use the GPS default of WGS84. To be strictly correct, newer USGS topos use NAD83. However, functionally, NAD83 = WGS84. My understanding is that the difference between WGS84 and NAD83 is less than 1 meter (usuually much less than 1 meter). Even the potential difference between NAD27 and WGS84/NAD83 is not huge in most cases. In my area (Southcentral Alaska) it amounts to ~115 meters. Some areas may be more than that, but usually little more than a couple of hundred meters. Back in the dark ages before GPS, we were often thrilled to fix our position to within 200 meters. To hikermore regarding magnetic declination diagrams:Thi is all quite true, and definitely worth knowing. However, if one is referencing to terrain features, which is about 99% of the time, it is irrelevant. This is correct, assuming one is orienting the map to terrain (which is what one does ~99% of the time). However, the comment was in reference to using the compass to orient the map. The implication (at least to me) of the comment I referenced was that someone could just align magnetic north from the compass parallell with the magnetic north line on the little diagram, to orient the map. This can get you into trouble. (This would work on a compass rose on a nautical chart, since there the angle of the diagram is correct. However, on a USGS topo map, the angle on the diagram is schematic only.) To various people who have commented on the amount of magnetic declination, and how fast it changes:This really depends on where you are. For example in Chicago, declination is only 3 deg 28 min W, and is only changing by 5 min W per year. In Chicago you could probably ignore declination and get away with it for many purposes. However, where I live in Anchorage it is currently 18 deg 23 min E, and is changing by 18 min W per year. That means it changes by almost one degree every 3 years. Not a good idea to ignore it here. To the original poster JeanetteIsabelle: Don't let all these technical details scare you off. It really isn't that hard to aquire a basic working knowledge of navigation. Take it one step at a time. Use the old 'walk before you run' approach. Don't worry about a compass or GPS at first. Get your hands on a basic book, any of the several that have been recommended should be fine. Get a topo map of some area that you know well or that you plan to visit. Just start walking around, map in hand. You soon will develop a feel for how things are portrayed on the map vs the ground you are walking on. Ideally, find a place where you can get up high a bit and get a view of the surrounding area. The top of a hill, or even up a few floors on a building will work. Again, just start comparing map to terrain. Once you have a basic feel for how things are portrayed on a map, then start thinking about learning how to use a compass. Again, just start simple, and work your way into more challenging situations. Here is where the book might be very helpful, or one of the free classes offered by REI or similar places. Don't even think about getting a GPS until you have a good handle on basic map and compass stuff. Besides a very useful skill, you will find that navigation can be a lot of fun for its own sake.
Edited by AKSAR (01/25/12 09:10 AM) Edit Reason: typo
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"Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas any more." -Dorothy, in The Wizard of Oz
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#240059 - 01/25/12 11:14 AM
Re: Learning Navigation
[Re: AKSAR]
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Geezer in Chief
Geezer
Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
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One other little tidbit about USGS maps and their idiosyncrasies. Natural features like land contours are printed in brown and water features (springs, creek, etc0 are printed in light blue. Cultural features (houses, roads, etc are often depicted in black. In using the map you will often find that the map was produced some twenty or thirty years ago. The result is that the natural features, brown and blue, are often very correct, while the cultural stuff is outdated - roads are built, cabins are torn down, etc. Maps get photo revised (the revision are depicted in purple), but even that doesn't happen consistently. The upshot is that you can rely on hills and crags being there, while the road or trail on which you are traveling may not be shown at all.
In my corner of the world, I used maps older that most of the members of this forum (made in 1943); the landscape was fine; roads, etc. were laughably inaccurate..
All this stuff about different datums is a bit arcane and technical. Its relevance depends a great deal upon the purpose for which you are using the map. If you are traveling and trying to reach the proper summit, pass, or drainage, it probably doesn't matter. If you are trying to located or find an archaeological site or fossil locality, it can be critical.
The thing about the different colors (red works its way into the scheme for showing dense urban areas) is that the USGS has good taste and the maps make great wall decorations - at least in my opinion. Others, like my wife, may not agree......
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#240071 - 01/25/12 04:08 PM
Re: Learning Navigation
[Re: hikermor]
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Veteran
Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1233
Loc: Alaska
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In my corner of the world, I used maps older that most of the members of this forum (made in 1943); the landscape was fine; roads, etc. were laughably inaccurate.. Very true. Also, the older the map, the more the magnetic declination will have changed. For general navigation you always want the most recent edition. When orienting a map, always look first to the big terrain features. Mountains typically don't change much. Manmade features change a lot with time. All this stuff about different datums is a bit arcane and technical. Its relevance depends a great deal upon the purpose for which you are using the map. If you are traveling and trying to reach the proper summit, pass, or drainage, it probably doesn't matter. If you are trying to located or find an archaeological site or fossil locality, it can be critical. Yes. You put it much more articulately than I did. Also, even at that datums are only important when working between paper map and GPS, or when using someone else's published waypoint. If you are only using your GPS, it doesn't really matter. For example, if you use your GPS to take a waypoint at your camp in the morning, your GPS can still lead you back to that camp at night, no matter what datum you use. Sometimes datums matter, but often they aren't that crucial. The thing about the different colors (red works its way into the scheme for showing dense urban areas) is that the USGS has good taste and the maps make great wall decorations - at least in my opinion. Others, like my wife, may not agree...... True indeed. Long ago, I took a bit of cartography in college. The professor taught us that a good map is a thing of beauty. I still believe that. My home office has maps on the walls. However, I can't always convice my wife to put them up in the living room.
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"Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas any more." -Dorothy, in The Wizard of Oz
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#240073 - 01/25/12 04:31 PM
Re: Learning Navigation
[Re: AKSAR]
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Geezer in Chief
Geezer
Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
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AKSAR, as a broad generalization, would it be safe to say that the further north (or south, if you are in the southern hemisphere), the more attention you should pay to magnetic declination and its rate of annual change. It seems pretty clear that the declination is more significant in Alaska than in Arizona. Is it just a matter of simple geometry?
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Geezer in Chief
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#240079 - 01/25/12 05:53 PM
Re: Learning Navigation
[Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
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Old Hand
Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 882
Loc: Colorado
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JeanetteIsabel- have you got what you need?
Or do we need to continue debating how many angels can dance on the compass needle at its current declination? :-)
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#240082 - 01/25/12 06:16 PM
Re: Learning Navigation
[Re: hikermor]
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Addict
Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 418
Loc: St. Petersburg, Florida
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AKSAR, as a broad generalization, would it be safe to say that the further north (or south, if you are in the southern hemisphere), the more attention you should pay to magnetic declination and its rate of annual change. It seems pretty clear that the declination is more significant in Alaska than in Arizona. Is it just a matter of simple geometry? Hikermor, Not quite simple geometry, but in a gross sense close. There is a line (in simple terms, which it is not) through the geographic north pole and the magnetic north pole (somewhere near Ellesmere Island) where the declination is 0. The closer you are to that line, the less of a problem you have. The greater your angle from that line the more the declination. Since the magnetic pole is in constant motion,the closer you are to the poles the faster the declination changes. If you are on the north end of Ellesmere your compass would point south if it could work. Respectfully, Jerry
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