http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46010767/ns/...r/#.TxWwWvmguHc

The article is short on details, but a couple of things are worth mentioning. The most obvious is that if he'd had a PLB he'd most likely have been rescued more quickly. He apparently was the only one in the group who knew exactly where they were, so this is a reminder to all of us that having more than one navigator is a real good idea.

He must also have had a good head on his shoulders, to be taken out not just alive but warm and in no need of a hospital, even though he was not equipped to be out overnight. I'm willing to bet that he had a PSK on him and used it.

Sounds like it. He had fire starters at least.



Did he have $20 bills as well? One wonders whether he had to weigh warmth against a substantial sum of money. Well, I'm glad to hear that this accident (he got separated from the group when he fell off a slope) did not turn into a tragedy.

A few friends had to snowshoe all night in -40C but they made it back to the cabin.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/story/2012/01/16/north-whitehorse-snowshoers.html

It is good to hear about those incidents that go well and therefore (almost) doesn't make it into the headline news...

I'd LOVE to hear more about this gentleman: How many fires did he lit? Did he sleep or doze off? Did he have anything to eat and drink? Did he melt snow? Did he improvize some kind of shelter? What exactly DID he have of gear?

If he knew where he was - why didn't he hike out? Was he injuried? Or was that option blocked by terrain features?

Due to the lack of details, I'm guessing here, but I'm thinking he lost his snowshoes in the fall and correctly decided to wait for rescue rather than trying to get out without them.

BRRR!!! -40 and skiing doesn't sound like fun. In my opinion, skiing stops being fun somewhere around 0F (somewhere in the range -15-20C). The shoes are simply not warm enough (unless you use dedicated "expedition boots"). Keeping your feet warm is the single most complicated issue when skiing in very cold weather.

I haven't done much snow shoeing, but my impression is that the bindings leave much more flexibility for you to use whatever boots you like, including those that are rated -40C or colder.

According to the article, this group had no exceptional trouble except having to walk throughout the night to return to their cabin. It simply was too cold for them and their equipment to stay outdoors that long.

The thing that strikes me about this story is the ineptitude of the "group;" With the expertise concentrated in the leader, they didn't even accurately describe the location of the incident, thereby slowing up progress and materially hindering the search. It isn't always true that it is safer to be out with a group; sometimes you are effectively alone...

Yipes. Hope the frostbite wasn't too severe.

HJ

They are all at home now and haven't lost any toes yet.

If they had known the area, they would have followed the unfrozen creek back 500m to the dam and cross at that location. Instead they walked back 8km.

[quote=MostlyHarmlessBRRR!!! -40 and skiing doesn't sound like fun. [/quote]

Skiing is not practical at -40. The skis don't glide. Snowshoes are the ticket for cold weather. Good bindings do allow for footware appropriate for the temperature. My wife thinks I am crazy but I enjoy a trip out in those temps :-) It makes the hot chocolate REALLY GOOD!!

Respectfully,

Jerry

Doesn't that depend upon using the appropriate wax? I could imagine that waxless skis would be ineffective when it starts to get really cold....

We have the same conversations in our house but with the roles reveresed!

No, by those temps the snow is like sand, the wax or waxless surface drags. This is because the ski actually glides on a very thin layer of water. As temps go down and the water layer gets microscopically thin, the friction goes way up.

See a short description at:

http://ffden-2.phys.uaf.edu/211_fall2002.web.dir/Tyler_Freeman/index.html


Respectfully,

Jerry

Plenty of polar expeditions on skis that has pushed on in -40C, but no one said anything about that being a pleasant experience...

I've heard the snow-becomes-sand argument plenty times, and I think there is some merit to it, but I don't think skiing becomes totally unpractical. Forget about skis gliding like you see on winter sport TV and think more about it like a long and thin snow shoe that you move horizontal instead of lifting them. That is closer to what you do when skiing through virgin snow anyway, even at higher temps.

But I have to admit limited experience with these things, the coldest I've been skiing was somewhere just below -20C, and with a light wind. Any stop more than 3 minutes would require me to push it for another 15 minutes before I could feel my toes again... it's a pretty itchy feeling knowing any really long stops exposed to the wind would guarantee frostbitten toes unless you've got something warmer to put on.

But the skis on my snowmobile had no trouble making progress in -40C, though... Big, clumpy boots and proper clothing made that a fun experience.

One of our local writers just posted a nice peice about The Joys of skiing in Alaska at -20 F (-29 C).

Of course, the folks up in interior Alaska think those of us in Anchorage are a bunch of wimps!

I have heard that Alaskans state that one of the nice things about living in Anchorage is that you are just a few minutes away from the real Alaska....

On Denali a "few" years ago, we were routinely skiing in -20C conditions, and I don't recall anyone stopping because the skis wouldn't work (sometimes the skiers wouldn't work, however).

Yes, that's kind of true. Life within Anchorage isn't that much different than any other fairly large northern city (except for a few moose now and then eating your shrubs in your yard ). Yet, if you started walking due east from one of the subdivisions up on the "Hillside", into Chugach State Park.....you wouldn't cross another road for about a hundred miles when you hit the Richardson Hwy north of Valdez. Of course you would have to swim across College Fiord in Prince William Sound, dodging small icebergs and maybe a cruise ship or two.

Life in Alaska can be a study in contrasts. We sometimes have to remind ourselves that people pay big bucks to come up here and do stuff we can do on a long weekend.

Also, skis still work when it gets cold, they just get slow and noisy.

MostlyHarmless

"I've heard the snow-becomes-sand argument plenty times, and I think there is some merit to it, but I don't think skiing becomes totally unpractical. Forget about skis gliding like you see on winter sport TV and think more about it like a long and thin snow shoe that you move horizontal instead of lifting them. That is closer to what you do when skiing through virgin snow anyway, even at higher temps. "

I did not say it was impossible, just impractical. When you start trying to walk on skis, it is not moving horizontal you have to pick it up. Since the ski and binding was not designed to be lifted it becomes a LOT of work. Much more than using snow shoes. I have tried it and will go for the snow shoes any time. Yes, people have used skis to go a long way in very cold temps, they just had to work harder than was necessary. Modern light weight cross country skis might be less of a problem (I have not tried them in those temps.) although reports from friends indicate it is still a chore and you cannot wear -40 capable boots in the modern binding. I go for the warm.

Respectfully,

Jerry

It is quite practical to ski in very cold weather. You don't really need to pick them up that much, if at all. You just don't get nearly much much glide. I wouldn't say they are any more work than snowshoes. These days there is a wide range of ski/boot combinations available. Everything from skinny racing gear, to telemark gear, to alpine touring gear. There are also various kinds of overboots that add warmth. There have been several Anchorage guys who have done some very serious winter trips in the Brooks Range on touring skis. Amundsen used skis on the first successfull expidition to the South Pole, and that has been repeated by other parties in recent years. I've met one of the members of the 1993 Antarctic Women’s Expedition, who skied to the South Pole.

Snow shoes are also a great tool, and as you note, they do have the advantage of working with almost any kind of boot. I mostly use skis, but I also have a couple of kinds of snowshoes. Snowshoes are nice and compact. That makes them handy in thick brushy terrain, or to carry as emergency gear on snowmobiles. I mostly use my snowshoes for SAR stuff, since they are less hassle to take on a helicopter.

Skis...snowshoes....whatever works for you is a good choice, in my opinion.

I respectfully have to disagree about the lifting part here. If the ski is totally submerged (very powdery or very rotten snow, or very thin skis) you may have to lift it upwards. This is of course very tiresome - but under most conditions you can just push it forward, no lifting required.

When pushing forward you let the ski rest on the ground. Your weigth is on your other foot - but you don't have to physically lift the foot that moves forward OFF the ground. Shift your weight to your left foot, (lift your right foot if submerged), let your right foot rest passively on the ground and move it forward.

I've been doing this under a huge range of conditions, from +10 to -20-something C. Heck, I've even skied on dry asphalt (student festival happening). I haven't tried the -40C and "snow as sand" thingy, but increased friction would not prevent me from sliding the non weight-bearing ski forward. We're talking about snow here, not super glue.




I believe both statements. Skiing with poor gliding conditions is a chore, no matter what. (I still don't lift them unless I sink too deep). And the -40 capable boots are a challenge. Such boots / overboots are used by polar expeditions, but are not in regular sale where I live.

I've been looking at those overboots that are for sale, typically some neopren thingy (similar stuff is used by bikers in cold weather). If my climate had been colder I would have bought something like this.

What I'm looking for is an overboot that a) is large enough to accommodate my big leather boot (a leather boot made for super telemark 75mm binding is BIG), b) also works when you take off your ski and start messing around in the snow. Those neopren thingys will act as upside-down funnels and squeeze a lot of snow in between the overshoe and the boots. Not optimal.

A neopren overshoe with some rigid straps under the sole could work... Or one overshoe in combination with some "slippers" that you put on when you take off your skis.

My biggest problem with skiing in the cold (not talking about -40C here, it doesn't get that cold where I live) is that everyone's feet will get cold during lunch, or while we play in the snow, or while we dig that cozy snow cave. Keeping your feet warm while on the move is much less of a problem.

My cold weather skiing has been in plastic shell double boots designed for mountaineering and compatible with ski bindings. For really cold condition, I was carrying full nylon and neoprene over boots that would accept crampons but not ski bindings. On this trip (Denali), we spent a lot of time at a camp at about 14,000 feet. We wore the classic "mickey mouse" over boots which were unfailingly warm and comfortable, down to -80F windchill, the coldest I have ever been. Those, unfortunately, will not play well with either crampons or ski bindings.