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#238828 - 01/07/12 03:27 AM Wolf attack in Jasper
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 3250
Loc: Alberta, Canada
A resident wolf pack targeted, took down, and ate a dog that was walking with its owner on a trail near Jasper, Alberta.

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/Death+cautionary+tale+about+wolves+Jasper/5959552/story.html

This hits close to home, too close. I walk solo on Pyramid Bench every time I'm in Jasper.


Edited by dougwalkabout (01/07/12 03:27 AM)

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#238830 - 01/07/12 03:44 AM Re: Wolf attack in Jasper [Re: dougwalkabout]
Paul810 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 1428
Loc: NJ, USA
Wolves are making a huge comeback after being nearly extinct. While that's great for the species, one does have to keep in mind that they are an apex predator for many areas and will treat many pets, and even humans, as potential prey. Due to this, there becomes an increased level of danger that people need to be aware of.

This is the problem we are/were having in NJ recently. We've had a lot of black bears coming into people's backyards, homes, dumpsters, ect due to an increase in the bear population. This, of course, caused an increase in complaints. So, the government recently opened a bear season/hunt to help quell population numbers. Of course, they caught a lot of complaints/protests from that too. smirk

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#238831 - 01/07/12 03:56 AM Re: Wolf attack in Jasper [Re: dougwalkabout]
Teslinhiker Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/14/09
Posts: 1419
Loc: Nothern Ontario
It's been a few years since I have been in Jasper. However if I recall, Pyramid Bench is also within the confines of Jaspar National Park which like many of our National Parks, has a dog on leash rule in place.

Although I feel for the lady that her dog died, however it is also mentioned that she gives out trail advise and tips of the general area and we always hear that keeping dogs on a leash is the best way to ensure their safety and well being. Although we will never know, had her dog been confined to the leash, there could of been a different outcome...

Stepping back and looking at the big picture though, Jaspar and the other surrounding parks and mountain areas attract hundreds of thousands of trail visits per year so the likelihood of these types of wolf attack incidents will always be far more rare then common.
_________________________
Earth and sky, woods and fields, lakes and rivers, the mountain and the sea, are excellent schoolmasters, and teach some of us more than we can ever learn from books.

John Lubbock

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#238832 - 01/07/12 04:26 AM Re: Wolf attack in Jasper [Re: dougwalkabout]
Richlacal Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 02/11/10
Posts: 778
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
After learning about that incident,I would tote a short barrel shottie,as you Canucks call them!Wolves were never close to extinction in Canada,so this is normal behaviour for a Timber Wolf.It's not going to affect anyones path of life adversely if a few wolves meet their maker!If that were me walking my dog,there wouldn't be that"Dog bitey sound"that's for sure!I have family/friends living in Montana & N.Dakota that are having problems with that very same species,that were transplanted 10 yrs ago,Real Brilliant planning by people of whom do not inhabit those area's!Sorry!,I almost started to rant,I bid you Good thinking for any future walks in that realm!

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#238846 - 01/07/12 07:17 AM Re: Wolf attack in Jasper [Re: dougwalkabout]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 3250
Loc: Alberta, Canada
It's a national park. The wolves are supposed to be there. Along with the black bears, grizzlies, and cougars.

(I should point out that firearms are prohibited in Canada's national parks, excepting park staff and peace officers. Given the speed of events, I doubt one would have been helpful except as a noisemaker. And anyway, I have yet to see a jogger willing to schlep a scattergun and ammo -- I can barely convince them to carry a fanny pack and water bottle.)

I agree with Teslin_ that this is statistically not a big deal. I have hiked this area for 20 years and have yet to see a wolf. (Though they may have seen me.) The real hazards in winter are icy trails, avalanche terrain, and the usual suspects such as hypothermia. When I walk there in winter, I hardly even think of large animal hazards, since the elk rut is over and the bears are all in bed.

It's the wolf's utter indifference, running right past an adult human, that gives me pause. A little too tame (habituated?) for comfort. In future, I might just keep a few useful items closer at hand on my solo forays.

As the owner fully recognizes, the dog should have been on a leash, and that might have tipped things the other way. To her credit, she takes responsibility for her mistake. Still, I feel for her loss -- it's hard not to second guess and beat yourself up over something like this.

(As for the concept of dogs on national park trails as a whole, well, I will only say that I leave mine at home and encourage others to do the same.)

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#238851 - 01/07/12 10:50 AM Re: Wolf attack in Jasper [Re: dougwalkabout]
Phaedrus Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 3172
Loc: Big Sky Country
In a place where you can't carry a firearm maybe bear spray would tip the odds in your favor were you to have a run-in with the local fauna.
_________________________
“I'd rather have questions that cannot be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” —Richard Feynman

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#238855 - 01/07/12 02:20 PM Re: Wolf attack in Jasper [Re: Phaedrus]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Bear spray is actually more effective than bullets is protecting yourself against bears. Bullets are not likely to kill the animal quickly enough to prevent escalation of the attach and will lead to serious injury.

Something like 90% of the time, bear spray will deter the attack with no serious consequences. The most important thing is to keep a clean camp (a really clean camp) and be aware.
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#238860 - 01/07/12 05:22 PM Re: Wolf attack in Jasper [Re: dougwalkabout]
Hikin_Jim Offline
Sheriff
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 1804
Loc: Southern California
I bet wolves wouldn't be any more fond of bear spray than a bear. I tested mine ONCE. Just a quick spray. I only caught the tail end of the cloud. That was enough to convince me. This stuff works.

HJ
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#238862 - 01/07/12 05:55 PM Re: Wolf attack in Jasper [Re: Hikin_Jim]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3851
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Hikin_Jim
I bet wolves wouldn't be any more fond of bear spray than a bear. I tested mine ONCE. Just a quick spray. I only caught the tail end of the cloud. That was enough to convince me. This stuff works.


Some people are not seriously effected by capsaicin sprays, and I'm told some dogs are not either. I don't want to discourage anyone from carrying bear spray, especially in bear country, but I wouldn't recommend relying on it alone to deter wolves.

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#238864 - 01/07/12 06:10 PM Re: Wolf attack in Jasper [Re: dougwalkabout]
AKSAR Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1233
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: dougwalkabout
It's a national park. The wolves are supposed to be there. Along with the black bears, grizzlies, and cougars.....I agree with Teslin_ that this is statistically not a big deal. ..... The real hazards in winter are icy trails, avalanche terrain, and the usual suspects such as hypothermia. .....(As for the concept of dogs on national park trails as a whole, well, I will only say that I leave mine at home and encourage others to do the same.)

I totally agree with doug & Teslin on all points.
_________________________
"Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas any more."
-Dorothy, in The Wizard of Oz

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#238865 - 01/07/12 06:59 PM Re: Wolf attack in Jasper [Re: chaosmagnet]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Originally Posted By: chaosmagnet


Some people are not seriously effected by capsaicin sprays, and I'm told some dogs are not either.


References? I did a little cursory googling and most of what I found stated that OC spray was effective on canines (mostly dogs). Interesting possibility that there is immunity. i would bet such folk would be in high demand for protests, demonstrations, and other such events.
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#238866 - 01/07/12 07:10 PM Re: Wolf attack in Jasper [Re: dougwalkabout]
clearwater Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 1185
Loc: Channeled Scablands
Those statistics won't apply if you bring a wolf magnet
(AKA pet) with you.

Pepper spray would probably work for the first wolf or two of
the pack.

Wolves are being established now in NE Washington State. Local
livestock losses last year ran about $48,000 for a tiny section
of range called "the Wedge".

One of the state Senators is proposing local folks buy non-resident hunting licenses for British Columbia to take wolves, before more work their way in the US, since they are protected here.

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#238868 - 01/07/12 07:24 PM Re: Wolf attack in Jasper [Re: clearwater]
Teslinhiker Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/14/09
Posts: 1419
Loc: Nothern Ontario
Originally Posted By: clearwater

Wolves are being established now in NE Washington State. Local
livestock losses last year ran about $48,000 for a tiny section
of range called "the Wedge".

One of the state Senators is proposing local folks buy non-resident hunting licenses for British Columbia to take wolves, before more work their way in the US, since they are protected here.


I don't think the politics of wolves should be discussed here as it has nothing to do with Doug's original post...
_________________________
Earth and sky, woods and fields, lakes and rivers, the mountain and the sea, are excellent schoolmasters, and teach some of us more than we can ever learn from books.

John Lubbock

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#238872 - 01/07/12 08:56 PM Re: Wolf attack in Jasper [Re: dougwalkabout]
Roarmeister Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 09/12/01
Posts: 960
Loc: Saskatchewan, Canada
While the focus of the story is on a "lone" wolf attack, the reality is that when they found the kill site they found a pack had killed the dog and ate it. The one animal that the owner saw might have been warded off by bear spray but you can bet the other pack animals that she wasn't aware of would have finished the attack. "Two adult and three juvenile wolves — the Pyramid pack — had chosen Helio for dinner."

Unfortunately for the owner, there is nothing practical that she could have done to ward off the attack once begun. After watching some film of wolves in action and see how they take down prey like elk or even turn on a loner within their own pack - once they set their mind on something, thats it. She was lucky it was only her dog they were after.

Malcolm preaches caution: move in groups, make noise, bring pepper spray, and keeping children and pets close. If you run into a predator, assess what’s happening. “We try to get people to differentiate between a predatory and a defensive attack, because your actions determine your success,” Malcolm said. “If it’s defensive, not aggressive, create space, use bear spray, remove yourself. If it’s a predatory attack, that’s not going to work.”

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#238893 - 01/08/12 02:30 AM Re: Wolf attack in Jasper [Re: Teslinhiker]
Blast Offline
INTERCEPTOR
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 3760
Loc: TX
Originally Posted By: Teslinhiker
Originally Posted By: clearwater

Wolves are being established now in NE Washington State. Local
livestock losses last year ran about $48,000 for a tiny section
of range called "the Wedge".

One of the state Senators is proposing local folks buy non-resident hunting licenses for British Columbia to take wolves, before more work their way in the US, since they are protected here.


I don't think the politics of wolves should be discussed here as it has nothing to do with Doug's original post...


The senator isn't proposing a law or any other political solution, he's just saying go hunt them in Canada before they cross the border. I'm okay with Clearwater's post paraphrasing the senator.
-Blast
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#238905 - 01/08/12 12:24 PM Re: Wolf attack in Jasper [Re: dougwalkabout]
LED Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/01/05
Posts: 1474
Sad story. But nothing a fixed blade knife couldn't have solved. Even a decent folder would've been effective.

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#238908 - 01/08/12 01:51 PM Re: Wolf attack in Jasper [Re: Richlacal]
wildman800 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 2851
Loc: La-USA
This is why I carry a small semi-auto pistol when I backpack/camp in US National Forests which allow open carry.

Our threats down here are Mountain Lion, Coyote, and Black Bear. I feel that the sound of a ground discharge would discourage a Mountain Lion and Black Bear but a dead coyote won't come back to create mischief.

My nephew that goes with me didn't want the extra weight but I feel it is worth it and 1 is sufficient to deter or put an end to an animal attack.
_________________________
QMC, USCG (Ret)
The best luck is what you make yourself!

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#238911 - 01/08/12 03:45 PM Re: Wolf attack in Jasper [Re: hikermor]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3851
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: hikermor
References? I did a little cursory googling and most of what I found stated that OC spray was effective on canines (mostly dogs).


It's all anecdotal from police officers I know. They've told me some people are tolerant because they're whacked out on illegal drugs, others can build up a tolerance through exposure to capsaicin sprays or supposedly from capsaicinoids in food. An officer I know had to shoot and kill a dog after pepper spray failed to repel it (and as far as we know the dog was neither high nor had been eating lots of spicy peppers).

Quote:
Interesting possibility that there is immunity. i would bet such folk would be in high demand for protests, demonstrations, and other such events.


Wouldn't it be easier to carry gas masks?

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#238914 - 01/08/12 05:11 PM Re: Wolf attack in Jasper [Re: dougwalkabout]
BruceZed Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/06/08
Posts: 319
Loc: Canada
Wolves need to eat, don't take your dog to the woods or it might get eaten
_________________________
Bruce Zawalsky
Chief Instructor
Boreal Wilderness Institute
boreal.net

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#238922 - 01/08/12 08:31 PM Re: Wolf attack in Jasper [Re: chaosmagnet]
Roarmeister Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 09/12/01
Posts: 960
Loc: Saskatchewan, Canada
I could be wrong but I think the OC spray that the LEOS carry is less potent than good bear spray. Yes, I've heard about some drugged out people whom have been sprayed with little effect. This happened locally a few years ago, they ended up nonfatally shooting the addict with their sidearm.

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#238925 - 01/08/12 08:58 PM Re: Wolf attack in Jasper [Re: chaosmagnet]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
I guess people who are high on drugs constitute a special case. I have heard anecdotally, that such folks don't respond to normal come-along holds - at least not until you twist their arm out of its socket and beat them over their head.....
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Geezer in Chief

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#238954 - 01/09/12 02:11 PM Re: Wolf attack in Jasper [Re: Roarmeister]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3851
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Roarmeister
I could be wrong but I think the OC spray that the LEOS carry is less potent than good bear spray. Yes, I've heard about some drugged out people whom have been sprayed with little effect. This happened locally a few years ago, they ended up nonfatally shooting the addict with their sidearm.


It depends on the agency and the bear spray. Counter Assault is 2% capsaicin, where some pepper sprays marketed to law enforcement contains 10%. I expect delivery is far more important than percentage of capsaicin.

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#239248 - 01/13/12 08:43 PM Re: Wolf attack in Jasper [Re: dougwalkabout]
clearwater Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 1185
Loc: Channeled Scablands
Wolf attack in Wallace Idaho on dogs

and wolves now returned to
the Colville Indian reservation after 80 years.

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2012/jan/13/nw-today-dogs-attacked-wolves-n-idaho/

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