While not as experienced as some here, I thought I'd share some recent experience with saws. <br><br>Gathering wood around the place for future fires seemed a percect opportunity to do practical evals on some of my toys. The timber was about 3" diameter and both hard and soft. <br> <br>BCB Commando saw - It will cut but slow. It has a tendency to bind when used with the finger rings. A green branch was pushed between the rings to fake a bow saw. In this mode, it was slower but easier, with less binding. It tended to bounce a bit though.<br><br>Glock Folding Shovel w/ saw - Attached to the handle, it's very uncomfortable, and the telescoping handle does just that - it telescopes in and out with annoying regularity. I tried just holding the saw itself with acceptable results, but it's a bit dangerous. I wouldn't want to try it in less than optimun conditions.<br><br>Gerber Legend - Yes, I too occasionally suffer from Newer, Better, Shinier Disease. This is a classic case. The Rem-Grit saw quickly clogged and was about useless. It's not really easy to unclog, so I thought "What the hell" and dug out my 14 year old<br><br>Victorinox Swiss Army Camper - no longer made, but the SAK Fieldmaster is close. No, the blade doesn't lock, but otherwise a joy. It cuts well, although it seems slower in softer woods. The blade would start to clog, but just wiping it on the bark or your jeans cleaned the shavings out. My pick of the litter. <br><br>Result - The Legend is out and my old SAK is in my pocket. It is half the weight at 4 1/4 oz. (weight watchers scale), and I am finding it much more useful. The saw is better, and for everyday tasks so are the scissors (IMHO). It has an acceptable file, stitching awl, tweezers and my toothpick. I wish it would lock, and had a better main blade. That's why it's partnered with an A G Russel Featherlite. <br><br>Let me know what y'all think. You may fire when ready, Gridleys...

>>>The Rem-Grit saw quickly clogged and was about useless<<<<br><br>I just love it when others' experience validates my own write-ups. <br><br>>>>I wish it would lock, <<<<br><br>For those who prefer a locking blade on their SAK, remember that Wenger does make a number of classic size SAKs with a locking main blade. It's not the most elegant lock, but it does work.

I have used a one foot long folding saw, much like a gigantic folding knife. I dont know if its sold under a different brand in the US, but here in Sweden its known as the Sandvik (manufacturer) Laplander (toolname). I used it with good results in the north of Sweden where the birches are so hard grow (and frozen) that any ax will bounce! Its not the smalest saw avaliable, but it does work pretty good!<br><br>-Has anyone tried ordinary carpenters saws in arctic conditions to both cut firewood and hard-packed snow to be used in snow-shelters?<br><br>Stefan, Sweden

>>remember that Wenger does make a number of classic size SAKs with a locking main blade<<<br><br>Victorinox has some SAKs with locks, too. Although these aren't the ones commonly seen in store displays, they can be viewed at www.victorinox.com.

I double checked and unless I'm missing something, always possible, Victorinox doesn't make a locking blade in the classic size SAK, only the larger "modern" ones with their slide-lock, which they refer to as "pocket tools."

That's right. The "pocket tools" were what I was referring to. I didn't realize they were larger than the traditional SAKs. I've just seen the pictures on the website. Thanks for clarifying.

The fact that any of these expedient saws work at all is a small miracle. Traditional crosscut saws came in several tooth variations for both hard and soft woods, with rakers to remove chips and arched bodies for stroking smoothness. Then they had to be periodically sharpened and the teeth "set" with the radius maintained. A saw out of tune wasn't called a "misery whip" for nothing! If a larger wood saw is required ; Stefan's Sandvic is excellent, as is a simple bow saw. A one man crosscut ( assymetric blade, accessory handle for two man ops) is very stowable, but the maintenance is again problematical. I just carry spare bowsaw blades and fashion a wood handle out of a green sapling.

Thanks, all. I found the Victorinox WorkChamp, which is a bit like my old Camper with a small pair of pliers with wire cutters and small phillips so I can change the batteries in my Photon II. The main blade locks. It doesn't seem to be available domestically, but can be ordered for about $60 including shipping. (Return subtle hint, Cliff)<br><br>No, it isn't ideal, but it has most of the commonly used tools at the ready in your pocket without unsealing a tin, and appears to fit about as well as my old SAK in the pocket. Therefore it will be available when needed. No matter how good a tool is, if it ain't on you, it ain't too useful. So far, Victorinox has a good reputation for quality and durability, so it will work acceptably when needed. And a SAK is non-threatening, especially compared to fixed blades for everyday use. Important after 9/11.<br><br>Thanks for the assisstance <br><br><br><br> <br><br>What I like about

Yes,any good pruning saw taken out of the handle is a good addition to a kit. They are extremely flat and take little space. Mine is an ARS, but I'm not sure where the steel is made. They are agressive cutters and require little effort to cut a two or three inch limb. May I suggest a high quality hack saw blade with 16 to 18 teeth per inch. They cut dry wood surprisingly well and are excellent for cutting triggers for snare trips and self snagging fishing lines. Would appreciate location information on Sandvik pruning saw blades.

There has been a lot said about the non-threatening look. IMHO I feel criminals are less likely to attack if they are standing next to a man that looks threatening. TO( censored) with looking submissive and defenseless. As long as you are legal why worry. Of course you don't want to go looking like Crocodile Dundee to a Board meeting.

Sorry Hunter but I disagree. Ideally we should be the "grey man", neither a threat nor a helpless oaf. Let's face it, when we see someone with all new shiny Gucci kit, our first response is to think of that person as someone with more cash than capability. Therefore they are a wonderful and profitable victim. A threat intimidates thereby never learning all they need. An obvious victim gets, well, victimized. Me, I want to be the grey man. It's the ideal camoflage, and preserves the element of surprise, should that be needed. When I see someone with practical and a bit worn kit, it tells me they are experienced, and therefore have some working knowledge. It isn't flashy but it works.<br><br>Of course, ideally, we keep our brains turned on and avoid that 95% of havards that can be avoided. Getting home to the wife is the best reward, but it means sacrificing some juicy over-a-beer stories.

Another advantage to keeping a low profile with your gear is that you are more likely to hold on to it. Remember Doug's problem with his Leatherman Wave being stolen right off his belt in Miami Beach? If it can't be seen, it's less likely to attract the attention of a thief and more likely to be there when you really need it.

I looked around and found the Laplander at: http://www.gardensgreen.com/folding_saws.htm<br><br>Have a look there!

Oddly enough, I've found that a drywall saw is a handy tool in the yard for puning small branches (up to 3 inches, YMMV). Appox. 5 inch blade, aggresive teeth thgat don't glog, sturdy handle, and cheap!

Anyone had a chance to compare the saws found in SAKs vs. the saws found in Leatherman's Juice and Wave?<br><br>I bought a BCB saw for my survival tin. I haven't played with it much, but my initial impression was I'd far rather rely on a saw in an SAK.

What are you going to saw? None of these tools is going to lay in a cord of wood for a winter camp. The small saws on multi tools are very good at making precise notches for deadfalls or for lashing paracord to poles when you want a little more finess. the wire saw's strength is in it's compactness and manipulation. If you had to disarticulate a large game animal, they are good for getting into cartilagenous tissue and awkward cuts requiring flexibility.

Doug wrote the following about the Wave's saw in his review:<br><br>"The double row wood saw is 2 15/16 inches (77mm) long with aggressive teeth for 2 1/2 inches (64mm). The cutting portion is the same size as that of the saw in the Super Tool and it works just as well, equal to the best and very effective on both hard and soft wood with minimal clogging. As with the knife blades, there is a definite advantage to having the cutting edge of the saw aligned with the "bottom" of the tool when working with it."<br><br>Based on my observations, the Victorinox SAK saws are essentailly identical to the Wave's with identical measurements. I haven't done a head-to-head cutting test, but I would be surprised if you could tell any difference at all.<br><br>I'm not sure about the Juice's Saw, but I believe it has the same tooth design, but the size is a bit scaled-down to fit in the smaller tool. Probably losing between 1/4 and 1/2 inch in cutting length and also losing some depth, particularly at the base.<br><br>I agree that I wouldn't expect to get a lot of heavy cutting through regular use of a wire saw. I see mine as purely an emergency device. I don't intend to use it for much more than cutting a few shelter poles, gathering a little fire wood and a few other cuts here and there. I'm sure it will stand up to that, but I won't be building a log cabin with it.

The BCB, or any wire saw I suspect, is prone to binding, especially when wrapped about halfway around the wood. I know this is the instinctive way to use it, but I find it works better rigged as a bow saw with a green limb. You're right, a SAK saw is much better, but the BCB will get the job done in a pinch. I haven't gotten to play with the Leatherman's, but I am a bit surprised that none of the tools on the juice lock....

I found a small orange handled folding saw at wally world with a metal and a wood cuttting blade.
they are just shortened hack saw blades but work pretty good.
then I took a recip blade and modified it to fit this folding saw.
now it has one very good blade and 2 decent blades.
only drawback is it doesn't lock.
not too big a problem when cutting on the back stroke.

hey i just came across this link, they are selling the knives there.
not sure if its the same you had but it might help.

http://www.shopping.com/xDN-Sport_and_Outdoor--camping_and_hiking-sp_brand_victorinox

Just a quick thought on the wire saw....

I recently purchased two Coghlans wire saws. I thought I'd test one and put the other in my kit. Being fairly cheap, i didn't expect too much out of it, but was still disappointed.

This is the single wire type which cuts via "teeth" notches raised in the saw.

My hiking trip last weekend was an excellent opportunity to try out my new saw. I got it out with a bit of optimism. Found a dead Oak branch with a diameter of about 2 1/2 inches. I thought this was ideal test material because it's a hardwood and had be dried for some time.

I got about 2/3 through the branch when the binding occured. I was able to force cut my way through the rest, but this was entirely too much work. When i was done, the Saw looked like a curly-q. The second cut went even worse. About 1/2 way into the cut the wire saw kinked. when I removed it I tried pulling the ends away from each other to "un-kink" the saw, and it broke.

I was standing there with two rings in my fingers with a useless saw. Needless to say I took the other out of my kit and I'll hopefully have better luck with the braided type wire saws.

Has anyone had any similar experience?

--Luke

Yeah, the Coghlan's are pretty poor. If you compare their's to say one from BCB, you will see the differance. All mine came from England, I do have a couple that are US military issue, and I like the BCB better. A little hint, when possible try to find a piece of wood and make a "bow saw". This helps with the kinking issue and is easier for you. In any kit larger than a PSK I include a small folding saw. I like the FS 2 from Allway tools, about $3 or $4.00, has 2 blades.

that reminds me of the cheap wire saw i got with a "rambo" survival knife i bought in the 80s.

it barely worked, and then snapped completely.

I have a BSA red Folding Pocket saw. It looks like a large lock-back knife. I've used it quite often and it is a great saw. It cuts very well and is pretty easy to clean out a clog. I find it to be just the right size for normal camp work.

BSA as in Boy Scouts America ? Thanks, Dave

Yup, however, checking just now I don't see it on the website anymore.
<img src="images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Thanks, I'll keep an eye out for one.

SAK Backpacker model with non-locking saw are available for $7.99 at www.cdnninvestments.com

I was thinking about wire saws after reading this thread, and although I carry a Varco Govt. Issue saw in my kit, I was doing a little reading on the web, and read about an older USMC issue wire saw. You can access the site http://www.donrearic.com/main.html . This site is accessable via ETS survival links, and Don has a lot of interesting things to say. Anyway, he tested out the wire saws, and I was impressed on his thoughts about the wire saws. I looked for one of these older USMC issue saws, and found it on eBay. I decided to pick one up. For most, $12 for the saw as opposed to $5 or 6 for the Varco may be steep, but there are 2 saw blades and it seems much more adaptable. I will get the saw later this week and let you know what I find. Will do a side by side comparison with some dead wood around the house. Do any of you have any experience with this saw?

Coghlans has two versions of the wire saw; the single strand one that you tried and one they call the Commando Wire Saw. Their Commando version is an 8 strand stainless steel saw that is identical to the BCB saw and is even made in England. I don't know if they are made by the same manufacturer, but they look and cut the same. Retail on the Commando saw is about $7.50.

Semper Fi, George