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#236723 - 12/02/11 04:27 PM Re: Another dog mauling [Re: Arney]
JohnN Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/10/01
Posts: 966
Loc: Seattle, WA
Any large dog is potentially dangerous. They are strong graceful animals with purpose built teeth and the cognition of a couple year old human child. Combine that with the fact they are *not* little humans, they have a different social programming, it is totally unrealistic to think they are safe without direct adult supervision and control.

Add in more dogs and the pack mentality and adrenalin, the prey drive, etc., and the situation is all that much worse.

Now add in poor or nonexistent rearing, training and socialization.

It isn't the fault of the dogs. We have chosen to keep these animals, we have shaped their evolution. We have a responsibility to protect them, and that includes protecting them from themselves.

The reality is the breeds seen as "problem breeds" attract owners who are often at best inadequately understand the situation and responsibilities of dog ownership, but often and sadly in many cases, actively program these dogs for poor behavior, either because they don't understand what they are doing, or because they *desire* the dog to become a dangerous instrument.

While I do feel there is a genetic element to dog behavior, I think the big problem here is the owners. Unfortunately, the dogs are the ones who end up paying the bill. That, and random people along the way.

Breed based laws make about as much sense as laws that regulate people based on their ethnicity. We need to hold the owners accountable, regardless of what type of animal is involved. It doesn't matter if they own a Labrador Retriever or a Cougar. Their responsibility to keep their animal from hurting others is the same.

That said, I would urge people to try to learn about dog behavior. Many dog encounters that are seen as "aggressive", are not inherently deadly encounters and can be diffused.

Considering the number of dogs out there, people are likely to encounter them and as a result, it stands to reason it is a prudent skill to learn and to teach our children. Think of it as another aspect of being (mentally, intellectually) Equipped to Survive.

Lastly, we should all keep in mind that it is our *personal* responsibility to keep ourselves and our loved ones safe. Bad things happen. Animals do attack. Bad people happen. Since it *does* happen, it means it could happen to any of us. And that means *you* and that means *me*.

Be safe,

-john


Edited by JohnN (12/02/11 04:30 PM)

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#236724 - 12/02/11 04:44 PM Re: Another dog mauling [Re: Arney]
JohnN Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/10/01
Posts: 966
Loc: Seattle, WA
Oh, and just to be fair...

Any human is potentially dangerous. They are strong animals with great intelligence and the ability to make use tools both directly and indirectly.

Add in underdeveloped empathy, hormones, pack mentality, adrenalin, pride and desperation and the situation is all that much worse.

Now add in poor or nonexistent rearing, training and socialization.

:-)

-john

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#236726 - 12/02/11 05:06 PM Re: Another dog mauling [Re: JohnN]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
Excellent parallel comparison. I work with a canine rescue and we've seen many very good dogs come in needing only socialization and human contact/interaction. In general I trust canines more than I trust unknown humans because canines do not lie.

In the OP, I see a typical pack that has not been socialized with humans outside the pack (the owner being considered part of the pack, not necessarily the Alpha), encountering a human that is not part of the pack. That's fine for guard dogs (junk yard dogs) which are geographically controlled, but not so much for dogs running loose.

If you are going to have a dog or dogs, you really need to be a strong leader (Alpha) so that there is no doubt who is in charge. Having dogs as strong and physically capable as Rotties, Dobies, German Shepherds & Pit Bulls is all the more reason to be in control and aware of what your dogs are doing. From what I read, it seems this owner was not in charge.
_________________________
Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

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#236732 - 12/02/11 06:04 PM Re: Another dog mauling [Re: JohnN]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: JohnN
Any human is potentially dangerous...

Who knew the danger...? OK, we should ban humans from now on. I'll start the petition. wink

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#236739 - 12/02/11 07:50 PM Re: Another dog mauling [Re: Arney]
MDinana Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 2208
Loc: Beer&Cheese country
Love how it's always specific breeds that do this. One wonders if it's inherent in the breed, or sensationalist media coverage?

I know my dog, a 30lbs mixed breed (hound, maybe German shephard), is POORLY socialized. I've tried everything I can think of, but she mixes poorly with other dogs - very alpha female. I can beat her, ignore her, probably taser her, and it won't stick. She's even raised hair a couple times at kids of our friends. Would love advise on what to do (feel free to IM).

With adults, total sweetheart. Maybe she hates competition?

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#236741 - 12/02/11 08:14 PM Re: Another dog mauling [Re: Arney]
JBMat Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 745
Loc: NC
I love animals. Even though I still have the scars from 29 stitches in my right calf, courtesy an unrestrained dog in my yard. Said dog died shortly after the fight, lead overdose. And it wasn't the dogs' first, or even 4th bite.

I carry a knife most of the time I am out. If the dog wants to try, I am willing to go a few rounds. Teeth versus steel. Then I find the owner and sue the everloving snot out of him. There are leash laws for a reason.

Just saying, sometimes I don't play.

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#236743 - 12/02/11 08:22 PM Re: Another dog mauling [Re: MDinana]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
Some dogs don't like kids. Some dogs don't like other dogs. Some dogs don't like people/humans they don't know.

When your dog raised its hair at your friend's kids, what were the kids doing?
_________________________
Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

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#236751 - 12/02/11 11:18 PM Re: Another dog mauling [Re: Arney]
Eugene Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 2997
Some dogd just don't like certain people. My parents dog does not like my, likes everyone else but will growl and try to bite me. Even though I've attempted to make nice with her by giving her treats. Normally any other animal will come right up to me but for some reason this one doesn't like me.
My old neighborhood there was a dog that always got loose and one day as we were in the back yard it came running fast up to our gate. I walked over to the gate and swung at it trying to give it a tap on the nose and told it to go away. The owner pulled up and glared at me as she saw that so I pulled out my cell phone and held it out so she could tell I was ready to take a picture and she called the dog and left. I figured if my neighbors little yappy dog could make it over the fence this bigger one could too and I had no way of knowing if my kids were safe or not.
If that lady had said any word to me I was calling the police as that dog had charged other people before, some other lady pushing a stroller looked at me and told me to restrain my dog as the real owner pulled up to get him when he came charging out from around the other side by my house.
Unfortunately thats the kind of person that shouldn't have a dog which seems to happen a lot in the city anyway. people get the pet and then its too much work to keep up with the walking so it gets neglected then the dog gets over excited.


Edited by Eugene (12/02/11 11:18 PM)

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#236753 - 12/02/11 11:52 PM Re: Another dog mauling [Re: Eugene]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: Eugene
...seems to happen a lot in the city anyway. people get the pet and then its too much work to keep up with the walking...

Walking? A dog needs to be walked? crazy

I think far too many dog owners, especially in the city, think that letting the dog outside just long enough to relieve themselves constitutes a proper "walk" with Fido.

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#236756 - 12/03/11 01:02 AM Re: Another dog mauling [Re: Arney]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Just got back from the daily evening stroll with our pooch. The walk is good for both of us...
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