Does BSA offer a Merit Badge in bureaucratic obfuscation? The cited source seems a classic of rigid, unbending regulation...

Yes they do offer the badge, but no one has managed to achieve one as yet !

Yes they do offer the badge, but no one has managed to achieve one as yet !

All the forms are caught up in bureaucratic obfuscation LOL

Mike

Yes ! I think if you actuall get the badge, they fail you, because obviously there isn't enough beaurocracy ... yet !

Its easy to rip on Boy Scouts of America for their policies, but can anyone think of another group comprised of thousands of volunteer adults that spend so much time introducing young boys to the joys of camping and hiking outdoors, while at the same time teaching them to be self sufficient, to be leaders, and grow to be good citizens and great neighbors?

Name another volunteer organization that maintains properties to allow young men and women to backpack in the New Mexico mountains (Philmont Scout Ranch), to canoe the northern boundary waters (Northern Tier), and to experience the wonders of the Florida keys (Florida Sea Base).

The BSA policies are there to keep other people's boys and girls safe. Simple as that.

Requiring the use of commercially designed - and tested - chemical fuel stoves, and requiring adults to supervise the use of these fuels is a simple and common sense measure to avoid the horrid disfigurement or death associated with these highly flammable fuels. I'm happy to leave it to the parents work with their kids to build and use homemade stoves.

About the knife thing, all the BSA policy says is "Avoid large sheath knives. They are heavy and awkward to carry, and unnecessary for most camp chores except for cleaning fish." Personally I agree with that statement. Though I carry both a Ritter Mk3 fixed blade and a Ritter Mk1 folder when camping, the Mk1 gets 99.9% of the usage. The fixed blade really shines in the kitchen and when doing heavy cutting, but for the latter I'm more often using an axe or saw.

Name another organization that teaches hundreds of thousands of youth to how to live outdoors, how to backpack, how to winter camp, how to navigate using a map & compass, how to build outdoor fires, how to cook over them, how to apply first aid, how to shoot with a bow & arrow, and how to safely use knives, axes, rifles, shotguns, and even black powder rifles.

My 16 year old son - a boy with Asperger's Syndrome, a form of autism, is now an Eagle Scout earning his 6th Eagle Palm, and has done ALL of the above. He spent a week at Florida Sea Base last summer, and will be backpacking at Philmont Scout Ranch next summer. Two summers ago the same boy who covered his ears and cried during fireworks came home with the summer camp's shotgun skeet shooting award for weeks' highest score. That little spray-painted clay pigeon is worth its weight in gold to him.

Frankly, I feel bad for young men who haven't had the good fortune of experiencing Boy Scouting. I hope their parents are providing them with this amazing breadth of experience.

Go ahead now - rip on the Boy Scouts of America and their policies, but you're going to come across as kind of foolish.

The United States Marine Corps?

During my life and career in the National Park Service I have had opportunities to interact with Scouts on many occasions, with decidedly mixed results. I would rate the organization as inconsistent. It seems to depend upon the local leaders, and there are a lot of good ones out there, but there are glaring exceptions. Of course, it would be possible to make some of the same observations about the NPS!

The good experiences - I once taught Advanced First Aid to an Explorer Troop. It was a marvelous experience. The students were bright, energetic, and involved. We did the standard stuff and then turned to exercises where we improvised with the things we woudlbe carrying on a backpacking trip. It really paid off a few months later, when one of the participants in the group, now a member of our SAR organization, and I were a team of two looking for an overdue hiker. We found him - in bad shape with numerous injuries. Our FAKs were exhausted and we were improvising like mad. At one point Jeff turned to me and said, "I really appreciate the training you gave us." He is currently a practicing physician. Yes, BSA does good stuff.

On the other hand, I hosted another group of Scouts on Santa Rosa Island. They were rowdy beyond belief. I kept waiting for the adult scout masters to step in and exercise some minimal discipline, but to no avail. Finally one of them told me, with reference to the lead hellion, "We don't say anything to him; his Dad is the Scoutmaster, and we are afraid he might quit if we disciplined his son." I guess those Scouts actually did learn some real world lessons about power and its application.

Then their was the Scoutmaster who threw a hissy fit because his troop could not tour Balcony House (Mesa Verde NP) as one group. The fact that group size was limited because of space and that everyone did get to go through the dwelling was of secondary importance.

Coloring my view was my participation in a long and extensive search over fifty years ago for three scouts who tried to climb Mt Wrightson, near Tucson, AZ, just as an incredibly ferocious storm dumped six inches of snow on the ground in Tucson, with a lot more at altitude. Their troop was planning some sort of survival training the following month. From the analysis of their actions and preparations, it is clear that these kids were totally unaware of what they were undertaking and did not know of the potential hazards. Perhaps BSA should get a pass on this one because the excursion was not an official outing. Still..Like I say, BSA is a mixed bag.

My own sons were in Cub Scouts, but dropped out because the program was, well, mundane. At the time I offered my services to the local scouting group for teaching outdoor and survival topics. I never got any kind of response from the organization.

Making stoves out of cans? Now that's just plain silly. Who would do such a thing?



On a more serious note, I have learned a lot from testing various forms of alcohol stoves. One of the things I've learned is that it's pretty hard to beat a good commercially produced Trangia. You can make a lot of lighter weight stoves though on your own.

The one stove that I've come across with some potential is the "tall boy" stove that can be seen second from the right in the middle row. I've just discovered that design, so I haven't much to say about it (yet). All of the other stoves shown work to varying degrees but none of the other homemade type stoves are as efficient as the Trangia (lower right).

HJ

Jim, when you say efficient, you are referring to some measure of liters of water boiled per ounces of alcohol consumed, right? Do you have figures on how efficient the Trangia is compared to some of the others?

It boils down to the ultimate question - how many days use will it take the more efficient Trangia to overcome its burdensome (3 oz!) weight? Enquiring minds want to know....

How is it possible that no one has as yet favored us with a Titanium Trangia (Tirangia?)?

Very eloquent and point on post Ken. Although BSA and in other countries are not perfect, I have had the opportunity to know and hike/camp with many ex Boy Scouts who really learned a lot about the outdoors, life, leadership etc and are upstanding people in more ways then most would ever give them credit for.