I know this topic pops up frequently, but I was pretty angry reading about this recent dog attack in San Diego county here.

Four pit bulls attack a group of siblings out for a run on a trail. Two brothers, 21 and 20, then two sisters, 18 and 15. And finally, a 9 year old niece. The dogs attack the second runner, one of the brothers, and the other brother comes to his aid but the dogs are attacking both of them.

The part that really gets me is this part of the article:


Walked? I sure hope the neighbor is like 95 years old, otherwise you gotta wonder about the character of a guy who walks over when a pack of his pit bulls is mauling two grown men.

Fortunately, the younger girls were not attacked, but the article says they were traumatized. Poor things. Grrrr, there really isn't need for this to happen.

There are so many attacks by Pit Bulls that the press and the public has gone numb. In Idaho, many attacks never hit the media. The public has their heads in the sand. It doesn't matter what kind of dog - be prepared.

Protect yourself by whatever means you are comfortable with.

My wife was attacked by three "cow dogs" while jogging our six llamas in Eagle, Idaho. She sprayed all three with high grade OC Pepper spray. One drowned in an irrigation ditch. One was never found. The third hid under the owners house. It was shot a week later.

I asked my wife why she used the OC Spray. She said the .357 was in her other hand and she didn't need it. The dog owners were quite polite. Their new dogs are well fenced. We don't exchange Xmas cards.

A friend of mine with two Samoyeds was alarmed by a pit bull attack at a park near her in which three pits were being walked on leash, two got loose and the owner ran off with the third while a jogger was hospitalized after they mauled him. Police are still looking for the pit owner.

I've known some very sweet pits, terrible shame that they became popular with bad people.

http://www.abc2news.com/dpp/news/region/anne_arundel_county_/jogger-attacked-by-pit-bulls


I've long carried pepper spray when walking my dog to protect her from off-leash dogs. Never had to use it but did once threaten to when an owner failed to call back his German Shepherd who was approaching aggressively.

Many people who have only seen the gentle side of the pit breeds think they have been unfairly labeled as killers. They obviously don't understand what the 'pit' part of the name indicates: dog fighting pits.

The Greeks used them as war dogs, the Romans used them in their arenas and coliseums for their grisly 'blood sports', the Normans fostered the sport of the prolonged torture called 'bull-baiting', which advanced to sports of using the dogs on bears, boars and horses, and finally, dog against dog. The dogs were bred for their strength and tenacity, but especially for their viciousness.

Now we have the drug-and-pitbull 'aficionados', who have been redeveloping the pit breeds (and mixes) for the same ugly end. This trash breeds only for strength and viciousness. The individual dogs that aren't strong enough or mean enough for their purposes are either used as victims, or simply dumped alongside the road.

These dogs are then often picked up as strays by Animal Control or by well-meaning dog lovers and turned into the shelters. Some shelters simply put them to sleep. Others make gallant attempts to rehome them. But the breeding is still there, often not obvious, but it's there. And all too often, the sleeping demon is awakened.

The first of the pit breeds I knew was Rudy, an American Staffordshire Terrier. He was well-mannered, obedience trained, very sweet, loved children, the perfect pet. Until... he got within reach of another animal. He literally would try to strain himself through chain link fencing to kill another dog. He was the perfect Jekyll and Hyde dog.

I know a woman and her adult son who did some pitbull rescue, and kept four of the dogs for several years. Then one day she came home and one of the dogs was dead, it's head nearly ripped off. A few months later, two of the dogs attacked the old female right in front of her son, who dived in to stop the attack and got both his arms badly mauled. The human and dog medical bills on that was well over $5,000 after insurance.

I don't like breed bans, because politicians always overdo things like that. But the problem is there, it's escalating, and I don't even pretend to know how to control it.

Sue

One thing Sue left out is the Locking jaw,Yes!Pitbulls have Locking Jaws,& when they are puppies like any other puppy,tug o'war is a very popular game to play with any pup,however pitbulls learn early that they have the lock jaws,& If the owner trains their dog to attack,that locking jaw will be utilized,Each & Everytime.Now factor in the bloodlines,& you have a potential 4-legged Killer! They are short statured dogs,so if they do attack another dog,especially larger than themselves,they will home in on anything at their level,usually the throat & stomach,then they shake their heads back & forth till it rips/shreds,they then bite deeper till the threat is neutralized.Ex-cons have these dogs,as it is against the law for them to own certain Knives & All Firearms,there are many ex-cons so there are many of these dogs with the same mindset as their owners,not to mention the scumbags that raise them for the sole purpose to fight other dogs.I had a Pitbull for 16 yrs,I'm proud to say he was family!

Sorry no - there is nothing unique in the jaw mechanisms of the pit bull compared to other dogs and it does not contain a locking mechanism of any sort. This is well documented as a myth.

A similar myth is a exaggeration of the jaw strength of the pit bull. While pit bulls may be on the upper end of canine bite force they are not unusually strong compared to other dogs with strong jaws.

- Eric

Eric,Do you have documented proof,for or against the locking jaw of a Pitbull?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=pitbull+locking+jaw

Thanks Eric!Speed racer,sorry Speed Demon's got yer'six! I apologize for misleading the readers of this forum! One thing I'm very sure of is,the Pitbulls tendency to not let go when those jaws clamp down on something!No other dog exhibited that behaviour or capability that I am aware of in my lifetime!

No problem - that is why this is a forum - a good place for discussions. Thanks to speedemon for the link since I don't get back here as often as I'd like to.

Pit bulls tend to have a crushing and tearing type of bite where they get a very solid grip and then try to shake or tear things loose. This and along with what I would call stubbornness is what makes them so intimidating. To get a pit bull to release its bite is not easy and if it has a hold on you the circumstances don't exactly promote thinking through the problem rationally.

No offense intended to any pit bull fans out there but I'll stick to my German Shepherds, Labs and Samoyeds.

-Eric

Any large dog is potentially dangerous. They are strong graceful animals with purpose built teeth and the cognition of a couple year old human child. Combine that with the fact they are *not* little humans, they have a different social programming, it is totally unrealistic to think they are safe without direct adult supervision and control.

Add in more dogs and the pack mentality and adrenalin, the prey drive, etc., and the situation is all that much worse.

Now add in poor or nonexistent rearing, training and socialization.

It isn't the fault of the dogs. We have chosen to keep these animals, we have shaped their evolution. We have a responsibility to protect them, and that includes protecting them from themselves.

The reality is the breeds seen as "problem breeds" attract owners who are often at best inadequately understand the situation and responsibilities of dog ownership, but often and sadly in many cases, actively program these dogs for poor behavior, either because they don't understand what they are doing, or because they *desire* the dog to become a dangerous instrument.

While I do feel there is a genetic element to dog behavior, I think the big problem here is the owners. Unfortunately, the dogs are the ones who end up paying the bill. That, and random people along the way.

Breed based laws make about as much sense as laws that regulate people based on their ethnicity. We need to hold the owners accountable, regardless of what type of animal is involved. It doesn't matter if they own a Labrador Retriever or a Cougar. Their responsibility to keep their animal from hurting others is the same.

That said, I would urge people to try to learn about dog behavior. Many dog encounters that are seen as "aggressive", are not inherently deadly encounters and can be diffused.

Considering the number of dogs out there, people are likely to encounter them and as a result, it stands to reason it is a prudent skill to learn and to teach our children. Think of it as another aspect of being (mentally, intellectually) Equipped to Survive.

Lastly, we should all keep in mind that it is our *personal* responsibility to keep ourselves and our loved ones safe. Bad things happen. Animals do attack. Bad people happen. Since it *does* happen, it means it could happen to any of us. And that means *you* and that means *me*.

Be safe,

-john

Oh, and just to be fair...

Any human is potentially dangerous. They are strong animals with great intelligence and the ability to make use tools both directly and indirectly.

Add in underdeveloped empathy, hormones, pack mentality, adrenalin, pride and desperation and the situation is all that much worse.

Now add in poor or nonexistent rearing, training and socialization.

:-)

-john

Excellent parallel comparison. I work with a canine rescue and we've seen many very good dogs come in needing only socialization and human contact/interaction. In general I trust canines more than I trust unknown humans because canines do not lie.

In the OP, I see a typical pack that has not been socialized with humans outside the pack (the owner being considered part of the pack, not necessarily the Alpha), encountering a human that is not part of the pack. That's fine for guard dogs (junk yard dogs) which are geographically controlled, but not so much for dogs running loose.

If you are going to have a dog or dogs, you really need to be a strong leader (Alpha) so that there is no doubt who is in charge. Having dogs as strong and physically capable as Rotties, Dobies, German Shepherds & Pit Bulls is all the more reason to be in control and aware of what your dogs are doing. From what I read, it seems this owner was not in charge.

Who knew the danger...? OK, we should ban humans from now on. I'll start the petition.

Love how it's always specific breeds that do this. One wonders if it's inherent in the breed, or sensationalist media coverage?

I know my dog, a 30lbs mixed breed (hound, maybe German shephard), is POORLY socialized. I've tried everything I can think of, but she mixes poorly with other dogs - very alpha female. I can beat her, ignore her, probably taser her, and it won't stick. She's even raised hair a couple times at kids of our friends. Would love advise on what to do (feel free to IM).

With adults, total sweetheart. Maybe she hates competition?

I love animals. Even though I still have the scars from 29 stitches in my right calf, courtesy an unrestrained dog in my yard. Said dog died shortly after the fight, lead overdose. And it wasn't the dogs' first, or even 4th bite.

I carry a knife most of the time I am out. If the dog wants to try, I am willing to go a few rounds. Teeth versus steel. Then I find the owner and sue the everloving snot out of him. There are leash laws for a reason.

Just saying, sometimes I don't play.

Some dogs don't like kids. Some dogs don't like other dogs. Some dogs don't like people/humans they don't know.

When your dog raised its hair at your friend's kids, what were the kids doing?

Some dogd just don't like certain people. My parents dog does not like my, likes everyone else but will growl and try to bite me. Even though I've attempted to make nice with her by giving her treats. Normally any other animal will come right up to me but for some reason this one doesn't like me.
My old neighborhood there was a dog that always got loose and one day as we were in the back yard it came running fast up to our gate. I walked over to the gate and swung at it trying to give it a tap on the nose and told it to go away. The owner pulled up and glared at me as she saw that so I pulled out my cell phone and held it out so she could tell I was ready to take a picture and she called the dog and left. I figured if my neighbors little yappy dog could make it over the fence this bigger one could too and I had no way of knowing if my kids were safe or not.
If that lady had said any word to me I was calling the police as that dog had charged other people before, some other lady pushing a stroller looked at me and told me to restrain my dog as the real owner pulled up to get him when he came charging out from around the other side by my house.
Unfortunately thats the kind of person that shouldn't have a dog which seems to happen a lot in the city anyway. people get the pet and then its too much work to keep up with the walking so it gets neglected then the dog gets over excited.

Walking? A dog needs to be walked?

I think far too many dog owners, especially in the city, think that letting the dog outside just long enough to relieve themselves constitutes a proper "walk" with Fido.

Just got back from the daily evening stroll with our pooch. The walk is good for both of us...

You're right about some people who shouldn't have pets.

Dogs are frequently bought as impulse items, like candy or checkout aisle toys. No thought is made to what the pet needs, only what the new owner wants. And they think the pet should automatically know (by ESP?) what the owner wants them to do, or not do.

They buy from puppymillers who only ask one question: "Cash, check or card?" The trash breeders are only interested in the money, not the dogs. They use poor-quality (maybe even not purebred) dogs with health and genetic problems, no OFA evaluations of hips and elbows, no DNA testing, no CERF eye exams. They feed the cheapest food they can find. The pups/dogs often aren't socialized or trained for even the very basics.

Buy from a pet shop? They come from puppy mills, every single pup. Ask, and they'll say they come from local, responsible breeders, and that is a 100% lie. Good breeders don't breed for impulse-buying pet shop buyers!!! Ask for the breeder contact info, just for laughs -- they'll refuse to give it to you.

By the time the pups pass the cute stage, they're often totally untrained, uncontrolled and boisterous, so they're relegated to the back yard or a chain. Esp when chained, they're often teased by kids and adults, frequently creating a vicious biter.

Spayed or neutered? Of course not! They chain the girl in the yard and 63 days after mid-heat she has puppies, which are either killed or dumped at the local shelter, or abandoned alongside a road in the country.

Just like people, they're often victims of their growing years. Sometimes they can be socialized and trained, but often not. Taking on an abandoned dog is a real crap shoot. I did it once, and will never do it again. And it wasn't the dog's fault. I lay all her faults on the idiot owner who got tired of her and turned her loose.

I only buy from a good, responsible, stable breeder, which is harder to find than you might think (last time took 2 yrs).

Look at the dogs for sale on your local Craigslist. Our economy is tanking, but the junk backyard breeders and 'designer dog' (*gag*) breeders are still breeding. And the morons are still buying.

And Animal Control is putting them to sleep almost as fast as they come in.

Sue

and here's another -- Pit Bull Tears Off Part Of Bridgewater Grandmother’s Face.

ALL dogs need to be controlled at all times. Training, Socialization, Training, Socialization, Training, Socialization. Huge fail on the grandson's part.

MINOR BITING INCIDENTS?????

Some people are obviously attempting to redefine the word 'stupid'.

Sue

I also found that interesting. Two bites meant the Pit Bulls normal inhibition to biting people (one facet of the breed standard) had been overcome. As I understand, Pit Bulls were bred to fight in a ring and handlers were also in the ring. Pit bulls that exhibited aggression to a person were removed from the gene pool. IMO there were serious problems with this PBT before it came to grandma's house.

A few stats for you to think about...

You are more likely to get bitten in the US by a Miniature Dachshund than a Pit Bull.

I know someone who runs a shelter in the US and more Golden Retrievers fail his aggression tests that Pit Bulls. GRs are about the most popular breed in the US and are extensively puppy farmed as a result.

Here in Australia you are more likely to get bitten by a Maltese Terrier or a MT cross breed. They are also the most popular breed(s) sold in pet shops and extensively puppy farmed.

Pit Bulls were originally bred to fight other dogs, but to be friendly to humans. Its not in their historical breeding to be aggressive to humans, quite the opposite.

Lots of breeds have a history of being bred for agression to other animals. Pretty much all terrier breeds for example. Jack Russells were bred for killing rats. Dachshunds for killing badgers. All these breeds are more than capable of biting humans.

Many 'pit bull attacks' aren't actually committed by Pit Bulls. One case over here, where a couple of Pit Bulls were identified as the breed of dog responsible for a bad attack, turned out they were labradors. Most people can't identify a pit bull from photos. The media has whipped up a frenzy against a particular breed, as it sells newspapers. Politicians go ahead with breed bans as it pacifies the uneducated public and its cheaper than fixing the actual causes of the issues.

Since they banned Pit Bulls in the UK in the early 90s, the RSPCA estimate that there is now 4x the PB population. Ban something and the wrong type of people want it.

The major problems with dogs in the western world comes from the way we raise them. Puppy Farms produce badly socialised dogs, and badly socialised dogs are ill equipped to deal with our way of life and therefore are much more likely to become aggressive.

If you want a well balanced dog;
- choose a breed that will suit your lifestyle. Getting a border collie without having the time to properly exercise it (body and brain) is only asking for trouble, for example.
- Find a reputable breeder. Meet both the pups parents and decide if they are dogs you like. Talk to other dog owners who have a dog from this breeder. Are they registered with the right kennel club? They should be.
- Never take a dog at less than 8 weeks old. If the breeder offers you the dog at 6 weeks old, they aren't a reputable breeder
- Don't choose the puppy that comes straight up to you, its likely to be dominant. Don't pick the pup cowering in the corner, its likely to be timid. Pick a pup that stays in the midle of the room with the other pups when you go in, but is happy to be picked up and will play with you when you approach it. This pup is likely to be well balanced
- Socialise your puppy! It should meet 100 people and 50 dogs by the time it is 16 weeks old. This is critical!!! Unsocialised dogs are ill equipped to deal with our way of life and this can frequently lead to aggression.

So if I am going on off topic, this is a subject very close to my heart (I work with dogs daily and see the issues first hand. It can be very rewarding but also heart breaking).

Mdinana - your dog sounds like mine. Its partly in the breed, German Shepherds can be bad with other dogs (a lot of solo sheep herding dogs can, animals outside their flock are a potential threat) but I bet its fear based due to poor socialisation. My boy is a rescue Rottweiler X German Shepherd who is beautiful with people / children but a nightmare with other dogs because he has never met them, he sees them as a threat, and because he is usually on a leash outside the house his 'fight or flight' response choice has been reduced to 'fight'. Once he is off leash with other dogs (in a controlled environment) he cowers away. If its causing you issues get in a properly qualified dog behaviorist.

Very interesting information. What is your opinion of mixed breeds from the Humane Society or similar organizations? I ask because that has worked for me rather well - and extremely reasonably priced.

Thanks, Ken, for that post. A very small dog is certainly capable of horrific injuries, and many infants and young children have suffered as a result. A "toy" dog is certainly not a harmless toy, just as not all pit bulls are vicious biters. (Well, to be accurate, I guess it's fair to say that all dogs are capable of being vicious biters, under certain circumstances).

You have to differentiate between killings/maulings and relatively simple bites, as there is a world of difference.

Some dogs will bite in fear or warning, and then back off. Others continue the attack to the death. Pits and Rotts fall into the second category, to the tune of two-thirds of the fatal U.S. incidents.

But most of the problem falls back on the irresponsible breeders and owners.

Sue