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#234923 - 11/01/11 05:19 PM Gear Up Landing
Jesselp Offline
What's Next?
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/19/07
Posts: 266
Loc: New York


Not something I think I'd want to experience.

How common is this, and how unusual is it that everyone walks away from it?

Any suggestions for what a passenger can do to maximize chances of survival, once it becomes clear you're landing on the plane's belly?

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#234924 - 11/01/11 05:27 PM Re: Gear Up Landing [Re: Jesselp]
boatman Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/10/03
Posts: 424
Loc: Michigan
Non synthetic clothing in case of fire for starters.You wouldn't want them melting on your skin now....


BOATMAN
John

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#234932 - 11/01/11 06:01 PM Re: Gear Up Landing [Re: Jesselp]
Fred78 Offline
Stranger

Registered: 10/11/11
Posts: 20
Loc: US
Taking a brief glance at some of the accident statistics from the NTSB that covers between 1991 and 2010 accidents, where there are multiple fatalities or 1 fatality and major damage to Part 121 (Airline) aircraft, are uncommon.

As far a some survival tips, don't wear synthetic fabrics that melt in high temperatures, do wear real shoes and not sandals, flip flops, know where the closest exit is...keep in mind it may be behind you, if you are sitting in an emergency exit row take a look at the instructions for how to open it before you may be called upon to do it in a hurry, wear your seatbelt, and very importantly listen to your flight attendant they are there for more than serving you beverages.

Unless it's a completely fouled up situation you will be informed before hand that the airplane is making an emergency landing. The times where there isn't time to make preperations are shortly after takeoff where there just isn't time beyond making a brace call.

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#234944 - 11/01/11 08:53 PM Re: Gear Up Landing [Re: Jesselp]
unimogbert Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 882
Loc: Colorado
A true belly landing is very survivable if done on smooth surface and wings level.

If one gear won't come down, you want it to be the nose gear.
That leads to a symmetrical touchdown and slide-out. Also very survivable on smooth surface.

One main gear down is not as good but with underwing engines it's still not too scary. That engine will slide pretty well on pavement though it (the engine) won't be reusable afterwards.

I'd be a LOT more concerned about smoke in the cabin as the outcome of that isn't as much in the pilot's skilled hands.

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#234955 - 11/01/11 10:57 PM Re: Gear Up Landing [Re: Jesselp]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
Does the pilot have the nose pitched up a bit throughout the landing? Looks like all the smoke and dust are coming from the tail section as it slides along the runway.

I don't think there's much to do beyond knowing the standard safety measures that every passenger should familiarize themselves with when they board a flight. Actually, the fact that you "only" have to know that to maximize your chances of surviving are a testament to how safe these planes are.

Did they evacuate everyone using the emergency slides? It's hard to tell from the video. Is that the forward slide deployed, or a stairway, in the video?

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#234957 - 11/01/11 11:10 PM Re: Gear Up Landing [Re: Arney]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
Seems to me that once the aircraft touches down, the pilot is just another passenger along for the ride. Besides shutting stuff down and trying to mitigate any fire danger, the flight controls are pretty much useless.

From that video, it looks like they did a very nice job on approach and touchdown. They stayed on the runway and mostly intact -- very nice.
_________________________
Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

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#234959 - 11/01/11 11:24 PM Re: Gear Up Landing [Re: Jesselp]
Bill_G Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 06/06/08
Posts: 92
Emergency slides were deployed (showed up in a different video).

Nice job by the pilot.

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#234960 - 11/01/11 11:53 PM Re: Gear Up Landing [Re: Russ]
thseng Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/24/06
Posts: 900
Loc: NW NJ
Originally Posted By: Russ
Seems to me that once the aircraft touches down, the pilot is just another passenger along for the ride. Besides shutting stuff down and trying to mitigate any fire danger, the flight controls are pretty much useless.

Not so - you never stop flying the thing until it comes to a stop. Maintaining directional control and proper pitch input would be important.

Retractable gear aircraft are "designed" to belly land - it should be quite survivable. The greatest danger would probably be stampeding passengers.
_________________________
- Tom S.

"Never trust and engineer who doesn't carry a pocketknife."

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#234963 - 11/02/11 12:16 AM Re: Gear Up Landing [Re: Jesselp]
Fred78 Offline
Stranger

Registered: 10/11/11
Posts: 20
Loc: US
Nope, in modern day swept wing jet airplanes you touch down at a speed where the airplane is still flyable and thus have control in the aerodynamic surfaces.

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#234991 - 11/02/11 02:19 PM Re: Gear Up Landing [Re: Fred78]
Jolt Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 11/15/10
Posts: 90
Loc: Maine
Originally Posted By: Fred78
As far a some survival tips, don't wear synthetic fabrics that melt in high temperatures, do wear real shoes and not sandals, flip flops, know where the closest exit is...keep in mind it may be behind you, if you are sitting in an emergency exit row take a look at the instructions for how to open it before you may be called upon to do it in a hurry, wear your seatbelt, and very importantly listen to your flight attendant they are there for more than serving you beverages.



That pretty much sums it up. I would add, when you reserve your seat look at the seating chart for the plane and pick a seat that isn't too far from an exit. What scares me the most when thinking about an airplane evacuation is the thought of being trapped behind a bunch of clueless or panicked people who are between me and a safe exit. In a lot of crashes, people survive the impact only to die from inhaling smoke and toxic gases while waiting to get out. Therefore, I try to pick an aisle seat that is within just a couple rows of the nearest exit if possible (I've thought about going for the exit row, but don't feel right about taking up one of those seats when there are a lot of people who need the extra legroom more than I do...I'm short). I think there was a statistic somewhere that said survival chances go down dramatically once you're more than 6 rows from the exit. I'm not surprised...we all know the traffic jam that happens in the aisle when getting off a plane normally.
_________________________
The rhythm is gonna get you...and if it's v-tach or v-fib, the results will be shocking!

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#234994 - 11/02/11 03:32 PM Re: Gear Up Landing [Re: Jesselp]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
LOL, one comment I heard on the news last night was one passenger saying that it was very smooth. She's had rougher landings on planes with the landing gear down! smile

Were there any injuries? I would expect a certain number of injuries just evacuating the passengers down emergency slides.

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#235029 - 11/03/11 07:19 AM Re: Gear Up Landing [Re: Jesselp]
Markhk Offline
Stranger

Registered: 08/09/03
Posts: 8
If you realize an emergency landing is imminent, you should immediately adopt the brace position.

In this case, the emergency landing was a prepared one - flight attendants would have been able to brief passengers on their nearest exit, removing eyeglasses, pens, sharp objects from their person , stowing all objects that could become projectiles. Part of the prepared emergency landing briefing is to have all passengers practice the brace position before adopting it about 20 seconds before touchdown. Typically the flight attendants will shout "Brace Brace" or "Bend over, grab your ankles".

However, in an unanticipated emergency - such as a rejected takeoff, runway overrun or other sudden emergency - you may not get any warning from the crew. Properly bracing can dramatically decrease your risk of head injury (i.e. avoid you from becoming unconscious post-crash!) and limb injury. Generally in a forward facing seat, you want to position your head on whatever you are most likely to strike (ie place your forehead on the seatback in front of you if you can reach it). It is best to check the aircraft safety card to see what is the airline's recommended brace position (it's required to be on the card.)

Remember, in the US commercial passenger aircraft have a "16 G Survival rule"...you're supposed to be able to walk away from a 16G crash, and thus seats are actually designed to be energy absorbing. Getting in the brace position enhances your survival chances significantly.

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#235042 - 11/03/11 03:29 PM Re: Gear Up Landing [Re: Jesselp]
Jolt Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 11/15/10
Posts: 90
Loc: Maine
A good link with info on surviving a plane crash (I think this may have been where I saw the statistic about distance from exits): http://www.onebag.com/popups/plane-crashes.pdf
_________________________
The rhythm is gonna get you...and if it's v-tach or v-fib, the results will be shocking!

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#235047 - 11/03/11 04:43 PM Re: Gear Up Landing [Re: Arney]
Unca_Walt Offline
Newbie

Registered: 10/03/11
Posts: 27
Loc: Floriduh
Originally Posted By: Arney
Does the pilot have the nose pitched up a bit throughout the landing? Looks like all the smoke and dust are coming from the tail section as it slides along the runway.

I don't think there's much to do beyond knowing the standard safety measures that every passenger should familiarize themselves with when they board a flight. Actually, the fact that you "only" have to know that to maximize your chances of surviving are a testament to how safe these planes are.

Did they evacuate everyone using the emergency slides? It's hard to tell from the video. Is that the forward slide deployed, or a stairway, in the video?



Absolutely, Arney. He was flying the plane even AFTER it touched down. The perfect landing (and the pilot did it) means the LAST thing to come down is the nose.

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#235048 - 11/03/11 04:57 PM Re: Gear Up Landing [Re: Unca_Walt]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
It appears to me that the attitude is set by three points comprised of the lower rear fuselage and the two engine nacelles. Note that the aircraft has the same attitude once it was stopped. After touching down you can pull on the flight controls all you want, but other forces are in control.

If he had landed on his main landing gear you could watch as the pilot held the nose up until he lost enough airspeed, then the nose falls thru regardless of flight controls. IMO
_________________________
Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

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#235049 - 11/03/11 05:45 PM Re: Gear Up Landing [Re: Russ]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: Russ
It appears to me that the attitude is set by three points comprised of the lower rear fuselage and the two engine nacelles. Note that the aircraft has the same attitude once it was stopped.

I had thought the same thing myself at first except that in the video, I don't see any smoke or sparks coming from the bottom of the nacelles, only from the tail section as it drags along the runway. If the engine nacelles were holding up the weight of the entire front half of the plane, I would expect to see more evidence of it.

Hmm, well, unless perhaps the plane was rolled slightly to the left and it was the nacelle on the other side of the plane--away from the camera--that was bearing the brunt of the weight. I feel like we're dissecting a UFO video now. wink

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