Have you read this story about an off-duty NYPD fireman that drowned while kayaking with his 5 year old son? A short quote:

The widow of an NYPD veteran killed in an August kayaking accident says her husband's final words to their 5-year-old son were "just blow that whistle and someone will find you."

Caden Luca was the last person to see his father, Patrick Luca, alive.

Only Caden was wearing a life jacket when father and son were thrown from their kayak into Smithtown Bay. As he struggled to hang on, Patrick handed his hat to Caden and told him what to do to survive.

"Caden always had on a safety whistle and emergency light, and he said to him, 'Just blow that whistle, and someone will find you,'" said Stephanie Luca. "Then he told him that daddy is going to go under the water and not come up. He was going to go to heaven."

Incredible! A fire/rescue professional out there with a five year old and not wearing a PFD! It boggles the mind. He was courageous to try to prepare his son for what was going to happen, and I hate to bag on a guy who's gone, but to make your kid watch you die right in front of him simply because you failed to take the most elementary precautions...it's staggering to me. Even with a PFD, a five year old out there alone...

What a sad, sad story all around.

Is anybody else confused as to the sequence of events of the drowning? How did a drowning man have the wherewithal to relay instructions and to say he's going to heaven, etc.? Was the water so cold that it caused his body to stiffen?

Yeah, as always with these news stories it seems like there's some stuff missing. The comments from his wife, though, did imply that he chose not to wear a vest- not that it was lost, etc. That's the part that blows me away.

I wonder if cold wasn't part of it...I wish we knew more. So sad for the family, especially the little boy who lost his daddy in front of his eyes.

Wow, that really is sad. He obviously made sure his son had a vest, so clearly he had some "safety mindedness" about him. Why not a vest for himself? Maybe he's a good swimmer and didn't realize how the cold water would sap his strength? I guess we'll never know.

HJ

That reminds me, was a bit back on here someone had a backpack sternum clip that continaed a whistle, anyone have that link.

We went out on a small boat last summer, the PFD's at the boat rental place were nasty so we didn't put them on. Went out afterward and bought the kids their own so if we did go again we have theirs, still need to buy ours though.

Tragic.

I see this often in boating where adults don't wear a PFD, kids are made to. It's the "do as I say, not as I do" crowd.

Reminds of the parents I see our riding a bicycle with their kids. Kids all have helmets, parent(s) do(does) not.

There are certainly situations where being an adult makes you less susceptible to some harm that might befall a child. However, when it comes to safety equipment to be worn on the water or when doing potentially dangerous activities, being an over-confident or macho so-called "adult" only proves you are irresponsible and stupid.

I don't have a link, but it's getting more and more common to see those whistles embedded in a sternum strap buckle. Only problem I see with them is that if you take your pack off and wander around the meadow with your camera or whatever, then there goes your whistle.

Maybe I'm a little over cautious, but I like wearing a whistle, a compass, a p-38 can opener, a little key chain type LED squeeze light, and an ID tag around my neck.

I actually find the compass and the little light useful around town. I pulled out of a parking garage the other day. The exit was on a totally different street than the one I entered from. I saw no recognizable landmark. I pulled out my compass. I immediately knew I was headed south and therefore needed to turn left. I drove a block or so, saw a street I recognized, and was on my way. Handy.

HJ

I like to keep a small LED light and a whistle on my pack and a backup on my person. My Maxpedition Kodiak is a great day pack and has a clip on the sling, a good place for both.

Whistles are so light that it's easy to carry more than one in different locations. I didn't realize how light whistles are until I picked up a set of ten plastic whistle I have that are connected on a key chain. I couldn't feel hardly any weight in my hand.

I'm thinking one for them to carry and the one on the pack, I remember seeing the link somewhere for the one that attaches and thought it was something I would get.

I'm a big fan of the lanyard too Jim. My current set-up is a Fox40, a keychain LED, a firesteel and a Gerber micro multi-tool.

Not wearing a life jacket, while on the water in a boat, seems like a dumb way to die, especially for a fireman. Such a simple solution.

I guess that the human capacity to NOT let knowledge influence his actions and routines is beyond comprehension...

As a father you have obligations to the next generations, such as sticking around until they reach maturity. Having two kids does not mean that I won't do some risky things, but I am more than willing to modify my behavior on some risk that are just too plain stupid to die from. Such as not using seat belts or PDF's.

If I engage in something risky (which usually I don't, I'm not a high risk seeker) then it should at least give me a little adrenalin fix. Not wearing PDF's isn't exactly one of those occasions.

But I'll give credit to his effort to make his son survive in the best possible style when things went awfully wrong.

I pray for the kid. The mental image will be burned on his brain forever. Unfortunately, this incident will likely be his biggest childhood memory. I can't imagine.

I totally agree with the comments about adults who put PPE - helmets and life jackets - on their kids and then do not wear them themselves. The emotion that is aroused in me is not anger, however, but sadness and a certain amount of admiration for a dad who could keep it together for his kid in that situation - probably better than simply slipping away silently. Let's hope he had good survivor benefits because it is going to be tough for mom.

Yeesh. Yeah, you got that right. Poor kid.

HJ

There is something else about this situation that is rather odd. "Being thrown from a kayak" should not constitute a life threatening emergency. Elementary kayak training teaches one to get back into the kayak, either through an Eskimo roll (a bit tricky) or a wet exit (much more straightforward). No one should have died, unless there are circumstances that aren't mentioned.

Agreed. Sometime, cost may be an issue. Parents provide their kids with PFD / helmet. etc. While the parents themselves feel they could handle the risk without safety equipment, to save some money.

I know of people having their personal self inflating PFD. But when they are on a boat, their PFD is nearly stored in their bag. Reasons for not wearing PFD is uncomfortable, embarrassed to be seem wearing one.

These people believe that they have sufficient time to put on their PFD before things get ugly.

I don't understand the stigma of wearing a PFD, but admit that its there. The new self-inflating models are comfortable and not nerdy at all. When I see an adult wearing one, I think "that's a smart guy", not "what a geek". But then again, I'm an old married guy who frequents this forum. I'm likely not the 99%.

The standard PFDs are bulky and awkward to wear. There are 'working' type PFDs with handy pockets that are somewhat better, but they are not readily available and are a bit pricy. The best compromise is a float coat which works very well when things are a bit nippy out on the water. models with a beaver tail will also do a better job of conserving body heat, a job at which the typical PFD fails miserably. in cold water, a PFD is nothing more than a handy marker for those retrieving bodies.

Some additional information

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/suffo...n-bay-1.3094729

So, there's no use in wearing a standard PFD in cold water?

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It would be good to edit the original post to change the word "fireman" to "officer". I don't see he was a fireman anywhere in any article. This whole time, I had "fireman" in my head because of the original post.

WRONG!!!
As the Canadian Dr. Gordon Geisbrecht (aka "Professor Popsicle") has repeatedly demonstrated, with flotation you won't become unconcious from hypothermia in cold water for about an hour. However, swim failure occurs in ~5-15 minutes, and without flotation you will drown at that point. The vast majortiy of "hypothermia" deaths in cold water aren't hypothermia at all. They are simply drownings, from swim failure due to chilling arm and leg muscles. Even with a PFD you can't stay in cold water indefinately, but you can survive at least an hour, and maybe much longer. This greatly increases your chances of being rescued.

Prof. Popsicle has developed the "1-10-1" principle of what happens in cold water immersion:

Cold Shock (gasping,hyperventilation) last about One Minute.

Swim Failure (due to chilling of your arm and leg muscles) in about Ten Minutes. Without a pfd you drown at this point.

Unconscious due to Hypothermia (takes this long for your core to cool) in about One Hour.

See http://www.umanitoba.ca/faculties/kinrec/about/giesbrecht.html for more information about Dr. Geisbrecht. In particular follow the links to "Cold Water Boot Camp" and to the Discovery Channel Canada link on "Cold Water Survival". Both these have some graphic examples of how long one can survive in cold water WITH A PFD.

For more information on hypothermia, see the current Alaska Cold Injuries Guidelines for EMS (developted in part by Dr. Geisbrecht) at:
http://www.ems.alaska.gov/EMS/documents/AKColdInj2005.pdf

For a recent example of how several girls (wearing PFDs) survived two hours in 40-45 F water see:
http://www.alaskadispatch.com/article/kenai-girl-credited-saving-friends-tustumena-lake-accident

Also note that modern PFDs developed for sea kayaking and white water kayaking are very easy and comfortable to wear. For other kinds of boating, the new inflatable PFDs are even less unobtrusive.

There is no longer any excuse for not wearing a PFD!

What he said! (Thanks for not having to do all that typing.)

Very interesting, and I stand corrected. Thanks for such a detailed refutation. I would still prefer to be wearing a wet suit if immersed in cold water. The record of survival in our local, rather chilly, waters is rather impressive.

note that my avatar is a PFD with pockets bulging with survival gear.when your on vacation "down south" you can spot the people from Minnesota when they get in the water--"oh wow..it's warm"---

I see a lot of occasional paddlers don't wear PFD's, probably because they aren't comfortable, particularly in warm weather. I sometimes take mine off in flat water to cool down, my thinking is that I can put it on if I go in the drink. It's hard to imagine a situation out in the bay where the dad couldn't get to his vest and put it on. I can't imagine the father didn't have a PFD in the boat, not being out on open water.

Average temps in LI Sound are in the 70's during August. Smithtown Bay would probably be warmer. This past summer was warm. I don't see hypothermia being an immediate threat. Most (all now?) yak's have flotation chambers or Styrofoam so they float when capsized. Why couldn't he hold on to the boat?

As for the sternum-strap whistles, a couple of my day packs have them. REI also sells them as an add-on to your existing pack or vest. I can't find it on their website, but saw them in my local store near the first aid supplies.

It happened just days ago; one would think the water was probably pretty cold- lord knows it's cold here. A red flag popped up for me in another article when I read "inflatable kayak"...maybe they're fine but it doesn't sound like something I'd paddle around an ocean bay. It puzzles me why he couldn't just hold on to it unless he was too cold.

When I'm out in the boat fishing in the lake, I do occasionally take off my vest or at least unbuckle it in glass-calm flat water. Especially when I'm sitting down. No freak wave could possibly come along and never once in my life have I ever been out in the boat alone. If there's any "chop" at all I have my vest(PFD) on.

From the originally posted article:

Ah, I guess I was just going by the date of the story I read. Doesn't seem it should have been that cold. I wonder what we're not being told?

This story makes me mad too, because one of my brothers died this last summer... he was whitewater rafting with friends... he jumped in the water to retrieve a dropped oar... they had all been drinking and he wasn't wearing a lifevest! He chose to live his life on the edge, but it was selfish of him to leave his 2 teens so carelessly.

Water seems to be one of those things that people often underestimate.