Every summer I spend a week or two in Colorado. I do a lot of day hiking by myself. I feel pretty good about the rest of my kit but I always struggle with how much shelter to carry. Most of my hiking is at around 10,000 feet or above so it can be hot, cool, raining, snowing, and get pretty cold even during the middle of the summer. I always think about what shelter I would want if I had to spend a wet and cold rainy night up there. At a minimum I usually land up with an army poncho and liner and a heat sheet blanket. What would you guys recommend for that type of contingency?

Thanks,

David Enoch

i'd suggest a heavy-duty mylar bivi bag, like the one Izzy mentioned, from Adventure Medical (retail $34)

http://www.adventuremedicalkits.com/prod...Thermal%20Bivvy

i carry one like it called a Land/Shark http://www.landshark-online.com/. i always take it along when in the woods.

and like Izzy said, maybe even better is the one they have coming out early next year for $50 (retail) that has a gortex-like fabric cover:

http://www.adventuremedicalkits.com/prod...January%202012!

Sounds like you got it covered. I carry a sil-nylon tarp, tyvek homewrap groundsheet, AMK heatsheet, and disposable poncho. My daypack isn't that big so my shelter system had to be small and light.

I agree. Your stuff should get you through the night. I would suggest that you have some way of preparing hot drinks or food. On my worst mountain bivouacs, that capability has been crucial. A small, light alcohol stove and small pot/mug would work in most conditions.

Looks like you've got the basics covered, David. I like to carry a heatsheet or an AMK bivy for added protection and space.

+1 on the handwarmers and poncho, Izzy!

I concur that your poncho and liner are great choices.
I hike the same terrain (and more!).

If you really DO have to spend the night out huddling over a fire - be sure you have 3 ways to make fire and a metal cup, pan or pot to heat water in. This is a great way to add heat to your body by drinking warm water and will give you something to do while you wait for light. (This is my theory. I've not tested it but have made a point of having something to heat water in as part of all my BOBs.)

I think all of the above recommendations are good ones.

Let me add one that's going to sound a little weird: Dry socks, two pair. If you're out slogging around all day in your poncho, you're boots are liable to soak through. If you hunker down in your bivy with wet feet, you're going to be miserable. I typically carry one pair of athletic type socks and one pair of heavy wool socks, just to wear if I do have to hunker down. Of course I typically have a pair of gloves and a hat too, but those are specifically for having to shelter overnight.

HJ

If you want to get a little more fancy than a USGI poncho, you could go with a hammock setup. Start with a silnylon tarp, add a lightweight silnylon hammock with whoopie slings, and then add an underquilt and a small quilt for the top and you have a very comfortable system that can handle wet weather and temps down below freezing and you'll be up off the ground in comfort. In fact you might even find yourself hoping you get stuck overnight so you can use it.

You did say that you are only at about 10k feet so there should still be plenty of trees and a hammock and underquilt sure beats sleeping on the hard wet ground in a bivy that doesn't breathe.

All of what I just described will squeeze down to less than the size of 2 2liter coke bottles and is less than 4lbs. - so it will fit even in something as small as a kid's book pack. For comparison, a USGI poncho, liner and AMK bivy will run you about $100 and a nice silnylon hammock and tarp setup with quilts will run you about $300 (but you can drop it to $150 by building it yourself)

Some others mentioned handwarmers - that's a good suggestion - I'll add that there are 20 hour handwarmers available and they do last 20 hours.

The cookpot suggestion is a good one too. It changes a miserable survival situation into a completely tolerable primitive campout.

My first priority is clothing adequate for conditions more severe than the worst I expect. First priority is a good shell parka (goretex or similar). I carry this even on short hikes when it looks to be warm and sunny! Probably shell pants as well, and plenty of insulation. I tend to get warm when I hike, even in cold weather, so I'm usually dressed more lightly than my buds, but carrying more clothes in my pack. I also have extra food, fire starting gear, etc.


On day hikes in summer, generally the only additional shelter item I carry is an Adventure Medical SOL Emergency Bivvy (the little lightweight $16 one). http://www.adventuremedicalkits.com/products.php?catname=Shelter&cat=53

Winter is a different story. When backcountry skiing, I swap the little SOL bivvy for the more robust SOL Thermal Bivvy. I also carry an ensolite pad. I also have a shovel (as part of my avalanche gear). In addition, stuffed in the bottom of my pack I have a puffy synthetic filled insulated jacket sized to fit over ALL my other clothing (this is in addtion to my normal goretex and fleece gear noted above). Also dry socks and dry glove liners (vacuum sealed).

NOTE: Thanks Izzy for the tip that Adventure Med is coming out with a breathable bivvy bag. I will have to check that out when they are available.

There are great points on the shelters. I also think there is an excellent point about the extra socks. Quite honestly, I would add extra undergarments as well. Anything that has even the slightest bit of moisture in it will make the night extremely long. I do not mind the extra weight for the t-shirt, underwear and socks.

My $.02

In my opinion, in an emergency overnight ordeal, you will not sleep, either because you will be too stressed out or you just won't feel like sleeping at all...

A basic silnylon tarp will allow you to protect yourself from the wind and rain, you already got a Heatsheet so that's good, and you also need some form of insulation from the ground. A foam bum pad is the minimum, you could get one that's torso-length for more body coverage.

Just build a fire, gather some firewood, sit down and let the night pass... if you've never experienced such a thing, you will realize that the night goes by pretty quickly when you are busy gathering wood (a good folding saw is a MUST), thinking of a better way to keep your fire going, sipping on water here and there, looking through your survival stuff... trust me!

I've spent a few nights in the wilderness without sleeping at all, in the winter (< 5 &#8457; temperature), simply by building a big fire and pitching a tarp properly.

P.S. : Dry socks are a very, very nice touch, always carry a spare pair in your backpack, even for short hikes.

I have slept in such situations, but only fitfully. Even so, I was surprised at how much better I felt in the morning, and how much my energy had rebounded. Simply resting does one a lot of good.

I totally agree about your clothing being your first line of shelter. Dress for worse than your worse case scenario and put what you don't wear in your pack with an extra pair of socks!

Hiking above 10,000 feet you won't have alot of available firewood, or much of anything to string a hammock between (unless you find some really conveniently placed rocks). I vote for a bivvy for shelter, although I tend to carry a lightweight tarptent on longer day hikes where I could find myself out at night. The tarptent isn't a 4-season tent, but I know from experience it would keep me moderately warm and dry, even in snow. I also recently became an owner of a Stephenson 3R, which is a 4-season tent and takes no more room than the tarptent, so I may switch to carrying that on longer hikes. Around here nighttime temperatures and weather call for insulation and staying dry, so carry what you need for that - at minimum a 2x2 sitpad (always useful), better yet a z-rest or better still an inflatable sleeping pad. But at 10,000 feet I think you will want your insulation enclosed in a bivvy or tent to keep it dry and you more comfortable. And imho if you don't already carry enough clothing to stay warm and dry through to the end of every hike, you shouldn't be going out at all.

I spent a night in my backyard in one of the AMK solo bivvies a few years back and wrote about the epxerience here. I was fully clothed as though I was on the trail and spent the night comfortably beneath a friendly cedar in my yard, no real condensation although I've heard others say I must have been drenched with it (I wasn't). Comfortable, but not alot of insulation value. I carry an AMK bivvy in my pack at all times - for the same reason that I once carried a Tacoma Mountain Rescue orange plastic emergency tent, as a last ditch shelter - but usually that's my giveaway to a fellow hiker who needs shelter / assistance (if you can't move them, you can always cut a $11 bivvy open and lay it over them for shelter).

And don't forget a bit of food - food before you settle down for a long cold night food will start your engine (metabolism) a bit and warm you.

I recently read a trip report from a wahoo who went out bushwacking over tough terrain and spent an unexpected night on a steep traverse, no shelter, no clothing except his shorts and a fleece top - and borrowed food and water from his fellow hiker, who followed this twit up the mountain. Lots could go wrong in that scenario, but it didn't, so actually he didn't really learn very much from it. The gods smiled on them so it didn't rain on them all night. Coulda though.

David,

I was raised in that country, and have spent many unexpected nights out without camping equipment there and lots of other places. What you have is a great choice, but I would add a more sturdy version of the heatsheet. I use a Space Sportsmans Blanket. If you are in the timber, pitch the reflective blanket as a lean-to with a fire in front. Use boughs or pine straw as a mattress, covered with the poncho. Wrap up in the liner and enjoy a fair night's sleep in fairly severe temps (at least if you sleep as easily as I do). You may need to tend the fire a few times at night, but a few hours sleep at a time will let you rest well.

Don't expect the lean-to to last if you just string up the blanket. Take some time to make a frame of small wood and, particularly if it is snowing or blowing hard (common in Colorado), cover it with boughs.

Use the other things you carry for help. My ruck has a removable foam backpad. Place it under your hips or shoulders. Remove your boots and replace your socks with the dry ones everyone has recommended. Then use your ruck as a foot cover.

Drink plenty of water (hot is best). Eat some of the spare food so the fire in you can keep going. Fats, proteins and complex carbs feed you longer. Food and drink is particularly important to staying warm.

If you are above timberline, sit on the pad in a protected place (from the wind/snow,rain) put the ruck over your feet, use the poncho, liner and sheet as layers. Pull the liner snug around you. Use the sheet and poncho as a mini tent, not so tight to minimize condensation. Some cannot sleep sitting, but if you can it can be a relatively comfortable night if you brought enough clothes. The Inuit use this technique (although with their large parka as the top and their mittens to sit on) to weather out blizzards. In some really nasty conditions.

Respectfully,

JerryF

when insulation is required inside a bivi bag, i suggest a looking into a Blizzard Bag

http://www.botachtactical.com/blsubag.html

based on the original concept made by MPI Outdoors (which i can't find any longer), this british-version lightweight ultra-thin mylar bag is really three emergency "space blanket" bags nested inside each other and joined by internal baffles. it insulates unlike most mylar bivi bags.







i think this thermo inside a heavy-duty shell would be a perfect combo, allowing one to use the shell alone if warm or just raining, and using the two together in colder environments. its what i carry in the wilderness (but have yet to personally use them).

when these bags first came out i read one review by an ultralight hiker who used a blizzard bag as his primary sleeping bag. he claimed to be comfortable in temps below 20*F.

here's a thread about the concept:
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/...le_pagination=1

and here's a link to an old ETS thread asking about them:
http://forums.equipped.org/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=33608

This thread has produced lots of good suggestions; I would only add that whatever you choose to carry, it would be worthwhile to set up your equipment and give it a trial run. Carry it and use your emergency shelter on a regular trip where you can move into something more substantial if necessary or set up in your backyard. If you ever need to use your rig, prior experience will be very helpful.

IMO, the USGI poncho is too heavy and bulky for what it brings to the table, especially if the user is a dayhiker and not a soldier. In the environment you describe, you should have some type of waterproof/breathable shell (even if it is simply the venerable DriDucks jacket, which is pretty darn good for the money). So "poncho = raingear" shouldn't be part of the thinking. Ponchos suck in general as raingar, but they REALLY suck in windy mountainous areas where you need to see your feet as you move through rough terrain.

A dayhiker's emergency gear has to be uniquely light and compact, compared to an intentional overnight backpacker who expects to bivy. So I would say your emergency shelter system should have 3 components:

1) an emergency bivy bag of some sort, like the AMK models or just a big clear bag to crawl into. Weight: around 5 ounces or less.

2) an improvised tarp of some sort, like the 2-person AMK heat sheet (which is 5'x8') tied off at the corners with a sheet bend. If you have the money consider a 1-man silnylon tarp or go whole hog with a small cuben fiber tarp. Add 50 feet of Kelty Triptease cord for 1 ounce. Weight: 4 to 8 ounces (depending on fabric and size).

3) simple, light, immediate insulation from the ground, like the Gossamer Gear 3/16" evazote foam pad. Evazote is fantastic stuff. This pad gives you an immediately clean, dry, warm(er) place to sit out the nasty weather. Supplement it with natural materials, of course, if they're available. The pad is great material for an improvised splint, and it is useful on every hike during rest stops. Weight: 4.5 ounces.

So for around 1 pound or less, you can have an effective, versatile, and compact dayhiker shelter system that weighs less than a USGI poncho alone. Like hikermor wisely pointed out, practice various setups ahead of time and learn how to best deploy this modular set of gear.

This is just a first-pass idea, there are lots of options out there. In particular, explore the cottage gear makers who serve the light/ultralight markets.

so true. i should for these bags i mentioned never having tried. problem is they're like Pandora's box: once opened they can never packed anywhere near as small again. if i were born a richer man, i'd've bought doubles of each and tested one set. so instead i take a chance they're as good as stated. i've been carrying them for 20 years and just hope i'll never need to depend on them. dumb, i know, so maybe you've pushed me to actually test 'em...

Thanks Glock-A-Roo! Very useful post.

I guess everyones minimum is going to differ. Me for instance when I hunt at low elevation, here on the east coast, I carry an AMK Heat sheet and some Bank line cordage. Thats it. I figure make an A-Frame, build a fire and hunker down.
Now at elevation of 10,000 add in some snow/rain and wind, that set up just would not seem adequate in my mind. It might work, but there are better options. I myself carry a bivy and a sil-tarp shelter combo pictured here. (about 3 pounds all together)

My bivy is probably a bit on the heavy side (650 grams) - but it is heavy duty. I also complement or alternate with a sturdy trash bag, a disposable rain poncho and a AMK bivy bag.

I've read this thread with great interest and I have very little to add to a subject that I find very important.

Just one note of caution: Don't have too high expectations of breathable materials:

- Breathable materials breathe at their best when you have a temperature gradient, such as a tight fitting goretex jacket.

- Even the best breathable materials are what I call "fatigued breathers". I.e. even the best materials don't really breathe nearly ENOUGH. Particular in a bivy bag setting (where the temperature gradient is much less than in a tight fitting jacket).

My personal opinion is that condensation will form inside ANY waterproof bag that you wrap around you and sleep outside in chilly weather - no matter how breathable the material claims to be. Your body is at 100F and lets out a certain amount of water vapor all the time. The inside of the bivy bag is pretty close to the outside temperature. Condensation is inevitable.

Personally I wouldn't bother with breathable bivy bags until they have a well proven track record for keeping you dry for prolonged periods that otherwise cause massive condensation.

As always, I'm more than happy to be proven wrong

Along these lines, I've started carrying an All Weather Emergency Blanket that measures 5 x 7 ft. It is a reasonable weight (285g), is durable and has grommets in the corners so it can be used easily as a tarp. At $15 its an affordable way to cover this need.

One of the other things I like about this blanket is that it is truely reusable so it can be a regular part of my camping / backpacking gear too.

having spent a cold afternoon wrapped up like a tightly rolled taco in an "All Weather Emergency Blanket", with both ends exposed a bit, i grew tired of the wind whistling thought from my feet to head. no matter how i tried to tuck it in around my legs, the problem persisted.

that was when i decided a bivi with only a single opening made a better survival shelter for me.

but i still keep a few of those grommeted mesh-reinforced laminated mylar sheets around for make-shift tarps, or as a ground cloth, or as a loaner, or in the vehicle for back-up, or tucked in a small saddle bag, or to use a red one as a signal flag/indicator.

So true about trying to stuff them back in once they have been used. The AMK Heatsheets Emergency Bivy, small and compact, weighing about 4 oz, can indeed be repacked, although it does take care and a certain amount of time to carefully fold it while compressing all the air out. It is part of my standard kit, along with something for a tarp and some light twine.

Another consideration when doing an emergency bivy is picking your spot with care. Moving just a few feet can make an enormous difference in exposure to wind, cooler temperatures, etc.

Unless you are a Cheetoh or a Potato Chip,I doubt very much you will get any sleep if you have to deploy an emergency mylar bag/blanket! I say keep what you have,& add a Frogg Toggs rainsuit,they are light,fairly durable at least for emergency purposes,you can see your feet while stepping around obstacles,& they are quiet,& inexpensive,If you should develop a hole/rip,the little roll of duct tape in your Doug Ritter PSK should take care of that,Lickety-split!The Best advice has been said,& I will reitterate too,Test what works for you in a docile environment,your backyard.Remember-Potato Chips love to be eaten fresh,cause' they can't Stand that noisy a$$ bag,lol!

That explains the snoring I heard in the snack section at the market!

Have you tested the 'space' blankets by Adventure Medical Kits? They are made of polyethylene, not mylar. They are significantly quieter and more durable.

If it is an emergency, I would have to vote for the Blizzard Bag. I carry the hunter orange and a plb. I hate the idea of a search prior to the rescue. In a non-emergency, I would leave it in the pack and use the Goretex Set and the military poncho. I pack as heavy as I can stand. You won't stay in shape unless it hurts.

someone needs to come up with a version of the military sleeping bag that was vacuum packed.nothing for super sub-zero,just normal hiking weather where you be out without a full pack of overnight camping gear.something like the foil sacks with enough insulation to keep you warm.and a real vacuum pack and not something done with a carpet cleaner.use one and toss.if you could get a bag like that into a Spam,or smaller,size can i would think it would be a life saver.what i really look forward too is a cell phone size PLB under $50

Wiggy's will sell any of their sleeping bags vacuum packed. I guess the US Navy buys a bunch of them that way. It's a bit spendy but for something that could save your life it may be well worth the while.

great..i learn something new every time i log on here,but..the cost of just the vacuum pack would put most people off so they would not buy one.however it looks like the thing someone who needs a "real" kit would pack away.

Yeah, obviously that's an expensive option but someone who spends a lot of time in on the highway in the winter or say a Canadian bush pilot might find it a lifesaver. You could get one behind the seat of a truck were you couldn't fit a regular bag, for instance.

I don't have one of the vacuumed bags but I don't rule out getting one eventually. I have two Wigggy's bags and can't say enough about the quality.