Every so often, the local fire dept. asks if the locals would like to be volunteer firefighters.

And I always wonder how someone could afford to do that?

I live in a small town, population 2,475. It is mainly a bedroom community for the state Capital.

We have one signal light, one supermarket, one beer/Playboy/candy store, one gas station, one bar, one RV consignment, one attorney, one cafe, one restaurant, one storage shed builder, a tree nursery, a satellite cop-shop, one small auto parts, two sandwich joints, a barber, a PO, 1.5 banks, three churches, a 2-day food bank, a pole yard, and several fly-by-night car repair places.

There are no big businesses that could afford to let their people just take off. Even in the next town south, the only big employer (a mine) was closed down. I don't think there are any multi-shift places down there, either.

So please educate me on how people (mostly guys) can AFFORD to be unpaid firefighters. If they work north (22 mi) or south (12+ mi), I don't see how they would be available to leave on a moments notice for a fire or other emergency.

Own their own business? Independently wealthy? Work at home? How could someone do it, realistically?

Sue

Not sure in the US, but in small towns here some volunteers just close their shop or let one of the employees go.

Current most company's are compensated for the lost labor hours by the local government. In the past they would also do some gentlemen's agreements with the local department. Also a trick is to look volunteer house wife's, one department even wrote a letter to all the ladies in a certain age range to gain more volunteers.

May have just been the area but my cousin got to tax deduct some of the gear he purchased. So if your prepared anyway (i.e. already buying cna carrying around a bunch of gear) you can get help that way. The fare department owned items like the fire trucks, pagers, etc were done bya fund raiser.
The local car dealership he worked for the owner allowed employees to take off for fire calls, I would assume he got certain tax advantages for that as well. IIRC business can get reimbrused some amount plus its helpfull if you ever have an employee get hurt on the job you have help right there.

Hi Sue,

I have been an active volunteer for over 20 years and yes, it can be a challenge. While I do not leave work for fire or EMS calls, I do leave work for technical rescue calls. I use Annual Leave so my employer is not responsible for me whenever I respond or engage in weekday training. For non-work time and I am in town, I am on call 24-7 for all technical rescue calls. I along with most volunteers, miss many family meals and activities, it just the way it is and for the most part our families understand.

Across the county, we have various situations; some employers do allow their volunteer members to leave work. In the more rural areas, many of the farmers are also members of the fire department and make every effort to respond to calls.

Pete

I was in a similar situation as a SAR volunteer, which often conflicted with work, where I also took annual leave, frequently just a few hours at a time. I was able to tweak my work schedule so that i worked four days a week, ten hours a day, which allowed me to have the weekend and Mondays free. There definitely can be conflicts with home and family obligations, and often it was impossible to get away from work. That is why you need a fairly large group of volunteers.

My teenage daughter began to object to my SAR work, because I missed some of her activities. That disappeared when I spent a Christmas Day and the following night searching (successfully) for one of her classmates during a heavy winter storm. As long as I kept things in balance, my employer saw SAR work as community service and therefore a good thing. My ex-wife never did think much of the program.....

You just have to strike a balance and make adjustments, like parting ways with the wife. That will differ with every situation and circumstance.

I was a voluteer during college. Obviously I would not have my pager on during class or during work (worked part-time all through college). All other times, I would have it on.

Obviously, if everyone was like that, there wouldn't be nearly enough people available. But, there were a lot of people who worked at jobs nearby that could leave. Lots of part-time people. Etc...

Somehow, it just all works. May not be an ideal situation, but we certainly had coverage...

I volunteer with a SAR group. We do most of our training during evenings and weekends. For actual rescue call outs on weekends we can get a good turnout. It is true that during weekdays it is harder, and we get fewer people available. One way it works is if your team grows to a certain "critical mass" of volunteers. That way there are always at least some folks who are free at any given time.

I'm getting older and will probably retire in a couple of years. The good news is that I will have more free time to be available for SAR. The bad news is that I'm not as fast going up the hills as I used to be. That means I will probably not be in the "hasty team", instead I will be in the "old slow guys follow on team". But I intend to stay involved in whatever way I can, for as long as I can.

My experience is that volunteer SAR teams are overall some of the nicest people you will run into. It is a self selecting group. We all have our quirks, but the real jerks don't seem to hang around very long, once they find out that it is mostly hard work and not much glory.

I'm a volunteer EMT with a local volunteer ambulance company on Long Island, in the suburbs of NYC. I work closely with the combined volunteer/career department one town over (they provide fire suppression and heavy rescue coverage to my district).

Back in the day, there were plenty of "blue collar" jobs locally, where it was relatively easy to make it to fire calls, and many fire houses were "blue collar country clubs," i.e. the center of the social life for many in the community.

The fact of the matter is that there are many fewer people around here who make thier living locally anymore. Most folks are commuting into NYC.

Our squad is now predominately commuters, and while we have no trouble getting a crew out at night or on the weekend, we often have trouble during the work day. Our automatic mutual aid during the day goes to the combined department in the next town, which has a paid crew to respond, but they take twice as long to get here than we would, if we had a crew.

There are no easy answers. If we go to a paid crew during the day, taxes will invariably go up. I work locally, and own my own business, so I am often able to respond during the day, but at what cost to my business?

As an aside, in New York State volunteer firefighters (and EMTs) get $200 off their state income taxes (not a big number) and after five years get 20% off their property taxes (potentially a big number).

Around here there are regulations that say the employer has to allow volunteer firefighters to go for emergencies and he has to allow them to get some sleep if the emergency required him to stay up all night. The volunteer must tell an employer that he is volunteer when applying for a job.
It is affordable if there is a critical mass so the volunteers can take shifts. A first squad comes on moments notice the reinforcements or second shift has time to prepare.
Some employers actually like to have volunteers. It means they have trained staff in case of an emergency at their place. It also means that insurance companies rate them as a lower risk. That has direct impact on their insurance fees.
And don´t forget: Viewed from the right angle it is a satisfying hobby where guys get to play with heavy machinery they could not even dream to afford from their own salary . Sometimes entire families get integrated in the community so even the problem of lonely wife and kids at home is solved.

Speak of the devil. . .

Minutes after I posted my post above, my pager went off for a Motor Vehicle Accident with Entrapment (a "pin job"). I thought I'd tell you about it, as it shows you the kind of resources necessary to safely respond to a bad, but not out of the ordinary accident.

There were five different agencies that sent apparatus and personell to the scene. My agency provided an ambulance and BLS technicians (volunteer), FD1 provided a heavy rescue with a Hurst tool ("Jaws of Life")(combined), FD2 provided an engine for standby fire suppression (volunteer), FD3 provided a ladder truck with a second Hurst tool, and finally the county police provided ALS technicians, Traffic control, and air support (all full-time paid responders).

All in all, we are talking about more than thirty responders from five agencies to handle an accident that had it happened over the border in NYC would have been handled completely by either FDNY or NYPD, but most likely by both. There is no way that my town could have handled this on its own, and we drew resources from three additional fire districts plus the county police.

I'm not really sure what my point is, other than to say I'm increadibly proud of my colleagues who put down their work to go and do an important job to save lives. I'm not really sure how we continue to have the response that we have around here without volunteers or vastly higher taxes. If you can volunteer, I urge you to do so. You learn great skills, and it is immensely rewarding.

BTW, the patient who had been pinned was extricated after a 20-minute operation and airlifted to the county trauma center with some pretty gruesome injuries. Total time from accident to arrival at the hospital was probably 40 minutes, well within the "golden hour."

Edit: Photos, if anyone is interested.

I'm the guy in the yellow holding up the IV bag



The extrication guys doing their thing:


I'm the guy to the far right in the bunker pants

Okay, thank you all for clarifying how it works.

I could see farmers doing it, since most of them around here just have some cows and grow grass. I hadn't thought of them.

Sue

when I was a vollie EMT, we supplemented the paid guys. I'd just call up the station/shift I wanted (3 shifts, and 8 stations) and say "Hey, can I come along on X-day?" So that was easy.

As former volunteer firefighter, who made it to the rank of Lieutenant and also President of the Fire Company, I will give you a short answer and then a long answer.

The short answer:
They can't, so they don't. Our small fire company (the township is even smaller than yours - only 1,450 residents or so) is slowly collapsing for lack of membership.

The long answer:
If you're in a car wreck at 11:20 AM on a Wednesday afternoon, if you're lucky, an extrication crew will be there in 15 to 20. minutes. If you're lucky. If you're not lucky, it will be 40 minutes from the moment you wrecked until the moment someone with extrication tools rolls up. The (paid) ambulance and police will be there first, but they don't carry extrication tools.

The guys who do respond are:

- a self employed contractor who works in the area
- a retired guy
- an unemployed guy
and sometimes a couple of guys who work at a lumber yard about 4 miles from the station.
I used to work from home, so I would also be a daytime responder. I don't anymore.

There is always the possibility of someone being home for the say on vacation or because they work weekends or nights.

But for the most part, the volunteer service is dying. It's not just the need to "be around" for calls.

The training - the incredible amount of training you "need" to have (and most of it is drivien by liability fears) - makes the time you spend on responses trivial.

For example, despite 7 years of practical experience in auto extrications, in my last attempt to re-join the fire company, just to do car wrecks, which were my skill "sweet spot", is was told I'd need to "re-certify" to technician level. Training would be every Tuesday and Thursday night for 8 weeks, 7PM to 10 PM, plus 4 Saturdays 8AM to 4PM, plus a practical testing day.

On day 1 of the training, there was a slide on the screen with a drawing of a car, with arrows pointing to the "Hood", "Roof" and "Trunk" - um....yeah, my 3 year old can handle that. Let's talk about Boron Steel vs. 30,000 PSI O-cutters and the dangers of gas-charged SRS inflation cylinders or the risks of silicosis for the patient from glass saws or how to deal with the laminated glass on BMW's. By the second week, we had moved on to "vehicle stabilization" - and that was the last class for me.

And that's just the time spent in the evening.

So, over and over, the same thing is happening - there's a gradual shift of "dual role" municipal services.

Just yesterday, I got this email:

"Could you please forward this out to your email list of companies. (Town Name) is looking to hire a public works laborer, and preference will be given to firefighters who can help supplement daytime response. Any qualified people who wish to apply can contact either (person) (president) or myself (sender) and we can help make sure the appropriate people get the resume."

So, basically, you're a "paid" firefighter - but not really - because the municipality keeps paying you to pave the roads, clear the drains, whatever - paying you a "low skill" wage - and when there's a fire call they "let" you respond. Since you're a volunteer in name only (see the email above).

And if you're in a municipality like mine - that has no full-time staff at all?

Well, I'm reminded of a call I once got when I worked from home.

Pager went off, I drove to the station (8 minutes!), I was only one there.

I waited for more guys to arrive (2 minutes) because I can't roll a truck without a crew.
At 10 minutes after the initial dispatch, when there's no response over radio from the disptached station, county radio calls, "Rescue 47 are you responding?" and I reply "No, unable to respond" and so they page two other companies, I back the truck up and close the doors. I left the radio on, and sat and listened as the other two stations didn't respond for 7 minutes. They rolled "undermanned" (with only 3 on board). And that's how it happens now.

The paper mill closed in the 1990's - that was a big source of volunteers.
The local retail shops are mostly gone, and the ones that are left won't let anyone leave for a call.
The small public school that was in town, the one where the maintenance worker was a responder - that's now a private school and, well don't get me started, but I've always pondered why the peace love and granola types that go to/work at that school (where I used to send my kids and I made many good friends) don't ever volunteer for emergency services.

And you're right - most of the people left, can't afford to respond. It's a sad state of affairs.

So it sounds like the worse the economy gets, the less volunteer first responders there will be. I imagine if you're struggling to keep food on the table there's no way you can afford the time or risk of putting yourself in harms way. Especially with no insurance coverage.

Sue, I've been a vol nozzlehead since my senior year of high school back in 1990. Back then the only required training for my dept was the Essentials of Firefighting. About 120 hours or so. Every Saturday for 3 months. Now we require the Firefighter 1 national certification. I was able to challenge the test and get my cert that way. Nowadays, between working two jobs and raising three daughters with my Wife there is no way I could do it. As it is, with 35 members, we get about 4 or 5 for a daytime call. We have partnered with the other two vol depts for automatic mutual aid. We get a daytime call now we know we are going to get at least 2 engines and a tower, with the crews to staff them. We train together several times a year and frankly most of our structure fire calls come in the other areas.
I do sometimes think of giving it up, but I'm just not ready.

Pretty sad state of affair reading Martin's response. Although that would never happen here, because they banned volunteer FF...

Sue, I've read the responses to your question and I share their pain. I have watched the volunteer fire companies in my county, almost without exception, become combination departments (Think Higher Taxes). Most of these are now supplementing both day and evening manpower due to the number of jobs that "left" the area causing our folks to seek employment well beyond the districts borders. I have "retired" from the fire service due to the fact that the knees don't work as good as they used to. However, I have remained active in the local rescue company (Heavy Technical Rescue, non-EMS)having been there 36 years, and the manpower shortage is affecting us as well. The most critical times are 6AM to about 2PM, when most of the best trained and most experienced responders are on their regular jobs. With active recruiting efforts we have managed to remain 100% volunteer and we endeavor to remain that way for the foreseeable future. The cost of recruiting, training, and equiping the folks is staggering to the department, but even more expensive is the time and personal expenditures made by the members themselves. The key, at least in our area, is pride and dedication. Without those factors in play we wouldn't be able to sustain the service levels currently provided.

Well, in PA at least, if you're a volunteer, you're covered under the townships' workman's compensation policy during responses.

Yeah, I've read about that. Maybe not the worst thing, in the long run.

Yes, yes and 1000 times yes.

Let me give you an example of the "staggering" cost (my previous post about the time covers the personal cost).

Here in Bucks County, they installed a 500Mhz digital radio system to replace the "ancient" 46Mhz analog system that was in use (we called it the "low-band" system.)

When the new radio system came online, in the early 2000's (I think 2001, but I'm not sure) let's just say that it didn't meet expectations, but we still got an invoice for $36,000 for the radios. This is for 6 trucks and a few handhelds. Not dozens of radios. We're talking about 12 radios here.

Fastforward to today, and the whole county radio system needs to be replaced with a totally new setup in the 700Mhz band, and it's going to cost $100 Million dollars in the county, of which AT LEAST $120,000 - that's one hundred twenty thousand dollars - is going to be the burden on the little fire company where I used to run, and their entire annual operating budget was only $80,000 or so.

Think about that. That's a LOT of pancakes to flip to make that kind of money. They get a tiny tax allocation, but you try raising taxes on a community. There are no grants.

Here's a good article on this:
http://news.heartland.org/newspaper-arti...ost-100-million

From my experience as a volunteer, the big issues with me are: time away from my employer, and the amount of time to meet minimum standards. Looking at what is required for a volunteer organization in emergency management (or even fire ), the number of hours of training are ridiculous. Most of these classes are simple to me, and forced to sit for 4 hours something I can understand and complete in 1 hour.

Thank you for all the responses and explanations. I just couldn't figure how the volunteers could put it all together, it would have to be incredibly difficult, and the turnover of volunteers would probably be enormous.

Here in my little town, the general rule of thumb: for medical emergencies, they'll be there pretty quick. But if your house is on fire, just cry, because they won't/can't be there in time to do much to save it.

Sue

Or if your very rural the fire response is about 1 hour if they are sober.
I was in high school and just after we went to bed one night we had a knock at the door, a neighbors son had ran the mile down the snow covered roat in bare feet to use the phone because their house was on fire. It was an hour later when the fire trucks came by. Its about a half hour drive to town normally, longer if the weather is bad then all the volunteers had to get from their homes to the station so that took some time.
They were lucky the phone actually worked, its dead more often than not in bad weather.

Thanks so very VERY much for your service all!!

My wife's extended family is filled with Chicago fire fighters, and her father - who had serious health issues - was literally raised and put through college by Chicago fire fighters.

We plan to retire in northern Wisconsin, where volunteer fire fighters are critical. Though right now we only have a plot of land in the area we do everything we can to support the local fire fighters - buying into any fundraisers they have ... and we will continue to do so.

You guys ROCK!!!!!!!