AYERS TG: i have had the same problem with scouts i teach in basic survival skills. with me the krux of the problem is time. as i help out with my buddys church scout troop i get about 1 day a week for 3hrs. a night. this does nothing to help these young minds retain the info i give them . so i do the best i can...vince . <img src="images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />