Thanks for your advice guys, I'll probably try again at a later date.
Pete if I started acosting boy scouts or girl guides to ask them about gimps and knots I'd be thrown in jail with no hope of parole! <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
It all make me feel rather foolish... <img src="images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Martin