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#232707 - 09/25/11 06:36 AM Montana hunter died by partner's bullet, not bear!
AKSAR Offline
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Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1233
Loc: Alaska
Acording to a recent article, the hunter who recently died in a grizzly attack in Montana was killed by his partner's bullet, not the bear. See: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2016301708_apushuntergrizzly.html

Alaska writer Craig Medred's article on this at http://www.alaskadispatch.com/article/think-gun-makes-you-safer-around-alaska-bears-think-again also includes a link to a study from the Journal of Wildlife Management on the effectiveness of bear spray. See: http://www.alaskadispatch.com/sites/default/files/Bear%20Spray.pdf
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#232709 - 09/25/11 07:24 AM Re: Montana hunter died by partner's bullet, not bear! [Re: AKSAR]
Phaedrus Offline
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Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 3164
Loc: Big Sky Country
What a horrible tragedy! Sad that not only did man and bear both lose their lives, but a 20 year old kid is gonna have walk around for the rest of his life bearing the burden of knowing his shot killed his friend. Terrible.
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#232713 - 09/25/11 02:18 PM Re: Montana hunter died by partner's bullet, not bear! [Re: Phaedrus]
7point82 Offline
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Registered: 11/24/05
Posts: 478
Loc: Orange Beach, AL
That is awful. I can't imagine.

Prayers out to all involved and the families of both hunters.
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"There is not a man of us who does not at times need a helping hand to be stretched out to him, and then shame upon him who will not stretch out the helping hand to his brother." -Theodore Roosevelt

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#232716 - 09/25/11 02:53 PM Re: Montana hunter died by partner's bullet, not bear! [Re: AKSAR]
Lono Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/19/06
Posts: 1013
Loc: Pacific NW, USA
A terrible tragedy.

I'd like to offer up this account of another grizzly encounter that ended far better for all involved - http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2011/sep/18/gutsy-wrangler-huge-horse-save-boy-from-charging/. It hinged on the most unlikely of things, getting a horse to respond and charge a grizzly and not to follow instinct and run away. I have never seen one myself but I'm convinced that a grizzly encounter is like being in the path of the tornado - sometimes you get the bear, and sometimes the bear gets you.

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#232718 - 09/25/11 03:30 PM Re: Montana hunter died by partner's bullet, not bear! [Re: AKSAR]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
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Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078

Will there be any manslaughter or the criminal charges brought up the against the hunter for the killing of an animal on the endangered list?

Criminal Manslaughter does include death due to irresponsible and incompetent behaviors. Adrenaline fueled blood lust/panic isn't really an excuse.

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#232722 - 09/25/11 04:27 PM Re: Montana hunter died by partner's bullet, not bear! [Re: AKSAR]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
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Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Highly unlikely. In most jurisdictions, panic under the described circumstances would be extenuating. Good luck on finding a jury that would convict. IANAL.
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#232731 - 09/25/11 09:47 PM Re: Montana hunter died by partner's bullet, not bear! [Re: Lono]
AKSAR Offline
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Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1233
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: Lono
I have never seen one myself but I'm convinced that a grizzly encounter is like being in the path of the tornado.....
They are incredible animals. When you see them just lying around, they can seem kind of clumsy and rolly polly. But when they run....it is just shear raw power and muscle.

Some years ago I shot a brown bear on Kodiak (a sport hunt, not a defense shooting). It was a great adventure, but these days I find I really enjoy just watching them.....with my binoculars from an appropriate distance. On my most recent trip to Denali National Park , a week ago, we were priviledged to see several groups of bears, doing their bear thing.

I would urge people to check out the link to the article on the effectiveness of bear spray. It makes for intersting reading. Here it is again: http://www.alaskadispatch.com/sites/default/files/Bear%20Spray.pdf
Even though, as noted above, I am quite handy with firearms, these days my personal choice is generally to only carry spray when I am out hiking.
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"Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas any more."
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#232735 - 09/25/11 10:38 PM Re: Montana hunter died by partner's bullet, not bear! [Re: ]
Blast Offline
INTERCEPTOR
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Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 3760
Loc: TX
Quote:
The D.A. said that the law, as he interpreted it, didn't protect any species from someone trying to protect themselves.


Izzy, you just gave me a little bit of hope for the world.
-Blast
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#232741 - 09/25/11 11:51 PM Re: Montana hunter died by partner's bullet, not bear! [Re: Blast]
7point82 Offline
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Registered: 11/24/05
Posts: 478
Loc: Orange Beach, AL
Originally Posted By: Blast
Quote:
The D.A. said that the law, as he interpreted it, didn't protect any species from someone trying to protect themselves.


Izzy, you just gave me a little bit of hope for the world.
-Blast


That made even me smile Blast.
_________________________
"There is not a man of us who does not at times need a helping hand to be stretched out to him, and then shame upon him who will not stretch out the helping hand to his brother." -Theodore Roosevelt

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#232762 - 09/26/11 02:56 PM Re: Montana hunter died by partner's bullet, not bear! [Re: ]
Denis Offline
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Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 631
Loc: Calgary, AB
Originally Posted By: IzzyJG99
There was a case not long ago where a man was getting attacked by an angry Bald Eagle here in Florida... The D.A. said that the law, as he interpreted it, didn't protect any species from someone trying to protect themselves.

I guess the only catch with this case is the hunter originally shot the grizzly thinking it was a black bear; the self defence only came later as they tried to track down the bear he shot.

It will be interesting to see if he ends up getting charged under the Endangered Species Act based on the fact that he shot a protected species due to his misidentification of the animal.
_________________________
Victory awaits him who has everything in order — luck, people call it. Defeat is certain for him who has neglected to take the necessary precautions in time; this is called bad luck. Roald Amundsen

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#232766 - 09/26/11 05:05 PM Re: Montana hunter died by partner's bullet, not bear! [Re: AKSAR]
clearwater Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 1185
Loc: Channeled Scablands
Looks like the Alaska Dispatch's Craig Mildred has written another
'do as I say not as I do' article about firearms and bears.

He is kinda harsh on the kid trying to save his friend, not having
been there.

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#232767 - 09/26/11 05:06 PM Re: Montana hunter died by partner's bullet, not bear! [Re: AKSAR]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
Two inexperienced hunters... sigh.

Be careful of what you're hunting, and with whom you're hunting.

Sue

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#232780 - 09/26/11 06:00 PM Re: Montana hunter died by partner's bullet, not bear! [Re: ]
Jeanette_Isabelle Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 2985
Loc: Nacogdoches, Texas
Originally Posted By: IzzyJG99
Oh? I didn't catch that part of the story. With that bit of knowledge now in my pocket I can see why he might get charged with something. It reflects poorly on him as a sportsman, outdoorsman and hunter if he cannot properly identify a black bear from a grizzly bear.

I still don't think the D.A. will charge him. You throw in the fact that his friend is dead by his hand, punishment enough if you ask me, and the fact that he only misidentified the bear. There's worse poachers out there who're killing bears just for the paws and gall bladders.

Accidents happen and when they're straight forward accidents? No one need be punished, frankly.

All things considered this kind of situation is somewhat par for the course when you're hunting.

If a hunter cannot tell a black bear from a grizzly bear, he should not be hunting bear.

Jeanette Isabelle
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#232781 - 09/26/11 06:05 PM Re: Montana hunter died by partner's bullet, not bear! [Re: clearwater]
AKSAR Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1233
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: clearwater
Looks like the Alaska Dispatch's Craig Mildred has written another
'do as I say not as I do' article about firearms and bears.
Not quite sure what you mean by that? Medred shot the bear. He didn't shoot another person by mistake.
_________________________
"Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas any more."
-Dorothy, in The Wizard of Oz

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#232786 - 09/26/11 07:21 PM Re: Montana hunter died by partner's bullet, not bear! [Re: AKSAR]
Denis Offline
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Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 631
Loc: Calgary, AB
Originally Posted By: AKSAR
Originally Posted By: clearwater
Looks like the Alaska Dispatch's Craig Mildred has written another 'do as I say not as I do' article about firearms and bears.
Not quite sure what you mean by that? Medred shot the bear. He didn't shoot another person by mistake.

I believe clearwater is refering to the fact that Mr. Medred clearly advocates the use of bear spray as a ones primary defensive weapon against bears, especially for those not highly proficient with firearms, and yet to chooses firerarms as his own primary defense weapon and has even used them successfully as such.
_________________________
Victory awaits him who has everything in order — luck, people call it. Defeat is certain for him who has neglected to take the necessary precautions in time; this is called bad luck. Roald Amundsen

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#232790 - 09/26/11 08:08 PM Re: Montana hunter died by partner's bullet, not bear! [Re: Denis]
AKSAR Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1233
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: Denis
I believe clearwater is refering to the fact that Mr. Medred clearly advocates the use of bear spray as a ones primary defensive weapon against bears, especially for those not highly proficient with firearms, and yet to chooses firerarms as his own primary defense weapon and has even used them successfully as such.

Yes, Mr. Medred does suggest that those not highly proficient with firearms should not rely on them for bear protection. I happen to agree with that. Unfortunately, I have met far too many people who carry do firearms for bear protection, yet who can't even reliably hit a paper target on a range, let alone a charging bear in the brush.

Mr. Medred also indicates that he is highly proficiant with firearms. I have no problem with him or anyone else who is truely proficient with firearms carrrying them for bear protection.
_________________________
"Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas any more."
-Dorothy, in The Wizard of Oz

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#232794 - 09/26/11 08:44 PM Re: Montana hunter died by partner's bullet, not bear! [Re: AKSAR]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2322
Loc: Colorado
Quote:
It was unclear how many times the bear was hit, or whether the bullet that killed Stevenson had first hit the bear. Bowe said that possibility was under investigation.

It sounds like the authorities don't know if the shot was directly to the friend, or via some bizarre ricochet/penetration of the bear. People, don't be too quick to judge the surviving hunter here! All the details are not available yet.

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#232842 - 09/27/11 04:16 PM Re: Montana hunter died by partner's bullet, not bear! [Re: ]
clearwater Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 1185
Loc: Channeled Scablands
I wonder if he'll ever want to hunt again.

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#232915 - 09/28/11 04:43 PM Re: Montana hunter died by partner's bullet, not bear! [Re: AKSAR]
clearwater Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 1185
Loc: Channeled Scablands
Couple more articles,

Bullet ricocheted

"Investigators have indicated to her family they believe the bullet likely hit the bear first, "

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2011/sep/24/gunshot-killed-hunter-during-grizzlys-attack/

---

Bow hunters use pepper spray successfully.

http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/outdoors/2011/sep/28/bear-spray-worked-bowhunters/

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#232922 - 09/28/11 06:10 PM Re: Montana hunter died by partner's bullet, not bear! [Re: clearwater]
Mark_R Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 863
Loc: Southern California
Originally Posted By: clearwater
Couple more articles,

Bullet ricocheted

"Investigators have indicated to her family they believe the bullet likely hit the bear first, "

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2011/sep/24/gunshot-killed-hunter-during-grizzlys-attack/

---

Bow hunters use pepper spray successfully.

http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/outdoors/2011/sep/28/bear-spray-worked-bowhunters/



On the first article: That's gotta help. Knowing that shooting his friend was bad luck and not directly his fault.

On the second article: You'd be suprised how many people don't carry bear spray. I was up in Kings Canyon/Sequoia NP a couple a years back when a sow and cub wandered into camp (backcountry, not campground). There were a dozen of us, and I was the only one who had bear spray. Thankfully, the bears detoured around us instead of raiding the kitchen area.
_________________________
Hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane

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#232931 - 09/28/11 07:59 PM Re: Montana hunter died by partner's bullet, not bear! [Re: AKSAR]
Denis Offline
Addict

Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 631
Loc: Calgary, AB
Just noticed this (somewhat related) story: Camper accidentally shoots friend in face after thinking he hears bear

The two were camping near Nitinat River early Saturday when one of the men was woken up by what he thought was a black bear trying to get into their tent, Const. Grant Desmet of Lake Cowichan RCMP said.

The man grabbed a shotgun and fired several rounds in the direction of the "bear."


It looks like the friend, who was in the same tent, got caught in the crossfire and caught a few stray pellets. Luckily for the friend, the shooter was using bird shot.
_________________________
Victory awaits him who has everything in order — luck, people call it. Defeat is certain for him who has neglected to take the necessary precautions in time; this is called bad luck. Roald Amundsen

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