Well boo to you <img src="images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />. I also got a load of maya wood and wax paper. He really is a great bloke. I payed by buying him some stuff from raymears.com. Maybe my starflash will arrive tomorrow, the race is on (unless you've already got yours).

well i got mine starflash yesterday ! <img src="images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> bit smaller than i expected, but much more clearer than mine BCB mirrors. come's with a peel off layer protective layer, and placed in a ziploc baggy.

Well <img src="images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> to BOTH of you - I have had an AUTHENTIC, ORIGINAL Starflash for a couple of weeks now, thanks to TOB9595. I also got wire saw, lifeboat matches and tiny little amber glass vials. So, I guess I am not that far behind!

(PS. If you are interested in trading stuff, please PM me - I can trade opinal knives (in diffenent colors as well!), MagFire magnesium firestarters and biltong <img src="images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />. Well, If I think of anything else i'll let you know!)

Alright, you both beat me on the Starflash front. Well I have Moras <img src="images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> and ........uh, Brit army webbing, hexi burners, water bottles, clothes, gloves. So there PC2K <img src="images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Alright, thats enough. <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I'll never forget what my dad told me. I asked him about doing volunteer work for something or other, and he replied, "If they're not going to pay you, then someone considers that it's not worth getting paid for."

I'm not saying I agree with him, but it has given me food for thought over the years.

Whenever someone promotes getting out in the world and volunteering, they're telling you to go do something that society thinks it's not worth getting paid for. You have to be able to afford not getting paid.

When I heard how little NYC firefighters were paid, I thought it a crime. It's a dreadfully important job and should be compensated accordingly. It is not.

Some CEOs make horrible decisions that cost ordinary people their life savings. Then they get raises and bonuses.

It sure is one cockeyed world.

With all due respect, I could not disagree with you more. Volunteering to perform a duty for your community has nothing to do with financial compensation that individuals receive for the performance of their chosen career and everything to do what is a basic human value – the desire to help others with your skills and time. The countless number of hours that Scout Leaders, Emergency Service Responders, Big Brother/Sister, school mentors and hundreds, no thousands of other job descriptions, are not valued less by society, in fact I would argue are valued more, for they are from the heart. Individuals motivated to volunteer in their communities are the heart and soul of that community, the unsung heroes, they represent the noblest of attributes, the desire to help others, for nothing more than the knowledge it is the right thing to do. This, in no way diminishes the dedication or value of those individuals who perform these tasks as a chosen career, for they too often are undervalued in terms of their compensation. Pete

I think I failed to state my case clearly. Maybe I had yet another migraine at the time. I'll try again.

I am not looking down my nose at the people who volunteer to serve in jobs that don't pay much or anything at all. My own community has an all-volunteer fire and ambulance department. God knows how we'd get along without them.

My question is, is this country so badly off that we cannot pay these volunteers a living wage? We citizens are taxed to the ceilings as is. Take some of those taxes, and either start paying these volunteers or pay them more. Pay them a living wage.

While we're on this subject, why are some Fire Deparment and Ambulance Corps members "volunteers," but Police are always paid?

Why aren't there any volunteer Police Departments?

Auxiliary Police Programs??? That's voluntary

You've got me there. I never knew such a thing existed.

Hey, I learned something today!

I agree with paramedicpete that being a volunteer does not necessarily mean that people don't value your services. Often, the people you're serving may simply not be able to afford to pay a salary to everyone involved.

Having said that, I do have a problem with organisations that are turning a handsome profit on their activities, but use volunteers because they're too cheap to pay for the service. (For example, I volunteered at a "Western Days" county fair east of Calgary last summer. They were attracting huge crowds, and I'm pretty sure they were making money hand over fist; but I spent 12-14 hours there volunteering and they made us pay for our own lunch.) But I think what goes around, comes around; organisations that don't appreciate the work their volunteers put in end up finding it difficult, or impossible, to attract those volunteers. It's the volunteer organisations that treat you like a valued guest, rather than an unpaid employee, that get people wanting to participate. Personally, I'm never going back there.

As polak187 has pointed out, there are volunteer positions with some police departments, but I don't think you'll ever see a wholly volunteer police department. The problem is that police have a lot of power, and some might well volunteer for the wrong reasons or let it go to their heads. Whereas, very few people volunteer as a firefighter because they wanna bust heads...

A friend of mine, who used to run her own catering company, has been volunteering with her church, that has a large soup kitchen program. The minister in charge dearly wants the soup kitchen to be entirely run by volunteers. My friend has tried, so far in vain, to convince the minister that this is simply impossible. Volunteers may mean well, but soup kitchens have to meet the same health code as any other restaurant, and without a professionally trained restaurant manager (food services manager, whatever you want to call them) they could end up being shut down by the city, or worse. (Being a charitable organisation does not make you exempt from lawsuits, as the Roman Catholic Church and the Canadian Red Cross have found out.)