While watching the remembrance coverage of the 9/11 attacks, I was reminded of the serious problem of dust contamination that hit the streets of Manhattan when the Twin Towers collapsed.

Ongoing medical studies have since shown that the dust & contaminants that New Yorkers breathed into their lungs have done a lot of damage to their health (esp. first responders, police, and victims near Ground Zero).

This raises the question ... what effective personal breathing protection exists to help people (esp. in urban emergencies)? On the low end of the scale, it's possible to wrap a bandana around your face as a temporary mask. On the upper end of the protection scale, firemen have full-fitting face masks and air tanks that they can use where smoke is a problem. But is there some sort of mid-level solution to this problem, that doesn't cost too much and is not too heavy, that can be used by the average person in the street.

any ideas?

Pete2

I'm not going to endorse it but at least take a look at the Safe Escape Smoke Hood. It sounds promising.

Jeanette Isabelle

Izzy has pretty much got it. In order of worst to best, as far as common solutions go, you're pretty much looking at the following:

Bare mouth
Cloth covered mouth (bandanna or t-shirt)
Wet Cloth covered mouth or maybe a basic paper mask
N95-N100 Mask/Respirator (the ones with one-way valves are best)
R95-R100 Respirator
P95-P100 Respirator
Full face P100 Respirator
SCUBA

For sustained use in a situation like 9/11, I would really want a full P class respirator with a lot of spare cartridges. They're annoying to wear, they're bulky, and they're expensive; but they offer a level of protection that is reasonably well suited to the airborne hazards present in that situation.

For EDC carry though, typical N95 and N100 level masks are readily available, reasonably priced, small, lightweight, and easy to carry. They offer a reasonable level of protection if you're just trying to get out of a dangerous area, but it's not what I would want to wear if I was staying at the scene long term (like a first responder would). The big downside to these masks, though, is that they offer no protection of the eyes, so they have to be paired with some form of eye protection.

For me, that's not such a big deal, as I already wear prescription glasses with polycarbonate (safety) lenses, which affords me some eye protection. Therefore, I just toss a few N95's in my bags and what-not. However, if you're making a dedicated kit, where you would include both safety goggles and dust protection of some sort, it might make the most sense to just go with a full face unit and a few spare canisters. It's expensive, but even basic R95 full-face units offer a significant amount of protection for both the lungs and the eyes.

Funny, I was just using a N95 mask, cleaning out some rodent infestation. They are much better than a bandanna, even a red one, and they are cheap and easy to use. When necessary, I would pair a mask with safety goggles - not as good as SCBA breathing apparatus, but a lot more available.

You can purchase a n95 mask packaged with goggles and ear protection. I have some of these stashed around the premises so that I can get my hands on them when the old castle becomes dust and splinters in the next big earthquake.

I know Home Depot (probably Lowes and other home improvement stores) carries a 3M half face P100 mask with replaceable filters for only $25 in case anyone was looking for something affordable. Fairly comfortable if it fits, although in hot weather your face will sweat in it (gets kind of annoying).

after a couple of decades of fighting with students to wear the darn things....you might want to consider a designated chemical splash goggle in place of a pair of impact goggles... a little more uncomfortable and prone to fogging, but a lot more protection...you need to try them with your mask...in another similar discussion, swimmer's goggles (not faceplate) was mentioned for non prescription glasses wearing folks...

After the 1993 WTC bombing, our company provided each employee with an Xcaper Mask kit. The kit includes a pillow-like mask that is supposed to filter out dust, chemicals and harmful gasses, goggles with a foam gasket, LED keychain flashlight and a signal whistle on a lanyard in a pouch. The pouch can be attached to your arm, belt or bag strap (I keep mine on the shoulder strap for my messenger bag). Cost is $59. http://www.excaper.com.

The Xscaper mask is only good for 20-30 minutes. Assuming this gives you time to get out of the worst conditions but still need dust protection, something additional like an N95 respirator or mask would be needed. There is room in the Xscaper pouch and I've added a couple flat-folding N95 masks (as well as a few other small survival items).

I have an expired Xcaper kit and am going to try to fit a 3M P100 respirator in it for my daughter's kit at college.

When it comes to goggles I prefer something with a gasket so it can seal-out gasses and particles. Regular safety glasses/goggles are not sealed and it can quickly get hard to see in a fire as your eyes sting and tear from the toxic gasses produced.

Mark, you and I seem to have similar urban survival views and experiences. Maybe because we live so near each other. PM me. I too use an Xscaper kit for urban self rescue, I.e. Get me out of this smoke filled building , tunnel, etc. Best bang for the buck,IMO. For dust I use swim goggles, slightly larger than the tiny common models. Bought at Campmor. I also use the flat fold 3M N-95 masks with the oneway valve.

You can purchase a Half Mask made by by 3m and p100 (stick to p100 its loads better then n95) at any Lowes and home depot from my understanding. Getting cart's rated for p100 acid gas and nuisance gas's is also possible at them. Pretty much i believe they are for naturally made gas's and gas's such as chlorine and bleach I believe tho I dont know.

Pete, you should look for smoke goggles. These are sealed, thermally rated and are impact resistant.

The purpose of the goggles is to stop your eyes being affected by smoke and very fine particles (as well as larger particles and debris which may hit you in the face).

You can purchase them form fire fighting suppliers.

It seems to me that there are only limited options for air way protection. From what I read it seems to me that the hood style probably offer the best all round convienicnce and protection for EDC ? Certainly a lot less fiddly than a maks and goggles.

Remember that most people who perish in building fires are actually overcome by fumes (gases) from combustion of man made materials, rather that "smoke" or other particles.

Also by protecting your vision (goggles etc), you will be better able to exit a hazardous area.

That's one of the things that really amazed me about 9/11. There was a ridiculous amount of just nasty soot-laden black smoke. Closest comparison I could make is the smoke that comes from burning tires, but on a massive scale.

My house in NJ is about 15 miles away and you could easily smell it in the air, it was terrible. It's no wonder people got seriously ill from breathing that stuff in.

The problem with fire hoods are that most are prohibitively expensive ($200) and extremely bulky (12x6x6 or larger), making them difficult to EDC.

The Xscaper does seem to protect against CO and various toxic/acidic gases present in fires. And the kit comes in a 5.5x5.5x2.5" nylon pouch. I keep one on the strap for my EDC bag and it is hardly noticeable.

For a smoke/fire situation, I would choose the Safe Escape smoke hood and the Xcaper mask, depending on the storage space situation. Both are reasonably priced and both handle carbon monoxide, so you get the most bang for your buck with them. And the Safe Escape can provide CO protection for up to an hour, which is a huge step up from most smoke hoods that provide 15-20 minutes of CO protection. Hopefully, we are never put into a situation where you can't escape a fire within 20 minutes, but it's nice to know the extra protection is there.

For extended time in a "dusty" situation, those half-face respirators with an appropriate filter cartridge seem to be the best, and aren't too expensive. In a hot environment, or if you're exerting yourself, sweat is going to take a toll on anything made of paper. The face seal is superior on the respirator, although that could become unbearably uncomfortable in hot situations. And if talking to people is important, the respirator can be problematic, too.

Another situation to keep in mind is wildfires, even for urban/suburbanites, like the ones raging in parts of Texas. Toxic gases like carbon monoxide are not such a big concern if you're any distance from the fire, but ash and particulates would be a major lung irritant.

Although I don't get asthma anymore, I have a history of it, so when one wildfire upwind of my neighborhood was pouring smoke on us for a week, I tried wearing an N-95 mask as much as possible, as well as hunkering indoors as much as possible. It's tough wearing that thing all the time. I could not wear one while sleeping because I would often flip onto my stomach and crush the mask.

I assume it helped to wear it, but even with the mask, I started to develop some asthma around day 5 of living with the smoke. Fortunately, that's about when the smoke started to dissipate. I had never really considered wildfires before then. I had the N_95 in my kit primarily for post-quake use, in some dusty environment.

I expanded my supply of N-95 respirators a few years ago once I considered pandemic use, although in reality, considering that pandemics can last years, with waves that last weeks at a time, that's a lot of N-95 masks, and not really practical to buy that many.

Also, N-100/P-100 masks can take a lot of effort to breathe through, if they are worn properly, with a tight seal. Some people, especially older folks with less than ideal lung function, are going to tire of breathing with any extended wear, so something to keep in mind.

I used a cheapo N95 mask (3M V-flex, I think) to deal with the ash fall during the 07 wildfires. It helped a lot with sucking in particulates, but didn't do anything about the smell.

If I have to pick one mask for EDC bag carry, I'd look for a P95 with odor elimination capabilities and a exhale valve to cut down on fogging up your glasses (e.g. 3M 8577).


That is true about the close fitting 99 and 100 rated masks. NIOSH requires a pulmonary test for any working while wearing the tightly sealed respirators. If you're not in the best of healty or expect a fair amount of exertion (evacuating 5-10 miles on foot), they may not be the best choice.

Please remember the limitations of filtering respirators and filtering masks. None provide breathable air in an oxygen deficient environment.

(Mark not directed at you. Your post was just next on the list)

Pete

That's true, an exhalation valve can greatly increase user comfort. And if it helps keep moisture build up down inside the mask, it should help lengthen its usable life.

The only situation I can think of to avoid the exhalation valve is perhaps in a pandemic scenario where you may have some concerns that you may be the one potentially infected and you want to protect those around you, say you have caregiving duties over kids or elders.

Say you've gotten over something that seems like the pandemic disease and you need to get back on your feet but you're not sure if you're still shedding the virus from your lungs. Something like an N-95 will trap the virus particles better than a simple surgical mask. Certainly not foolproof, but it should help if you wear it properly.

That reminds me, I'd like to go see the new movie Contagion. Shhhh, if you've seen it, don't spoil the storyline for me!

I didn't read past the first couple posts but here is my 2 cents. I bought a pair of motorcycle goggles at the Dollar store. They have a foam gasket. Not the best for durability but I have used them in my Jeep in a dust storm and they worked. I EDC a Buff & large bandanna that can be used for breathing barriers, but also have a couple N95 masks in all my vehicles. I have started to carry a Shemagh in my backpack. Not super excited about the look but the results are undeniable if needed.

The 3M 9210 flat-fold N95 respirators are what I've stocked the house and vehicles with. They come individually plastic wrapped, and measure, in the wrap, 1/2" thick, 3-3/4"wide, 9-1/2" long. About the size of an opened empty wallet. One or several easily fit into a briefcase, backpack, fanny pack, BOB. A box of 20 is about $22, I've bought them individually at paint store chains for $2 each.

The 9211 version adds the exhaust valve, which makes longer term use easier. They are twice as thick in the wrapper, and a little more money.

For individuals such as myself who have compensated for a perceived intrinsic lack of manliness by growing a beard, respirators provide little protection due to the poor seal around the perimeter of the mask. My non-NIOSH-approved "solution" to the poor seal is to apply a thick layer of petroleum jelly to the beard before putting on the mask. YMMV. One more item to carry with the mask; one more use for Vaseline.

For lessening offensive odors when the circumstances warrant, applying a layer of Vicks Vaporub on the upper lip/moustache is a help.

With respect to facial hair, it is not just beards that can develop a poor seal. I was wearing my N95 yesterday and realized that a two day growth of stubble, although it might be fashionable, doesn't help the mask seal at all. I guess a disaster is no longer an excuse to skip the daily shave.

This is a useful thread. One request, as you respond, please briefly define the term "EDC" as you imagine it. The term "EDC" for me means what I carry on my person throughout the day. I could compromise here and include what I carry in my brief case. If you're imagining keeping your respirator in your vehicle, then your respirator would have been useless in a 9/11 style attack or similar, and that's the topic of the original post.

If you work in an office building and if you're around your desk a lot, it may be more realistic to store a more effective, more cumbersome mask in your desk. However, I don't consider that option to be EDC.

I don't mean to call anybody out. I'm just looking to make a purchase...

http://www.sitebox.ltd.uk/product/10081637/msa-scap-escape-respirator-in-cardboard-box/

A little pricey but might be worthwhile if working off shore or in a building higher than 5 or 6 floors (higher than a standard fire vehicle ladder).

Some glove protection (even if it was just a pair of merino wool liners)

http://www.thermalshop.co.uk/products/gloves_merino

would be useful for flash over protection.

Stay away from cheap polyester business suits.

EDC 2 me. In my backpack that is on my back or within a few feet of me during the day. I take my pack on all my errands and to all my meetings. Only time its not on or near me is if I am at home of working out. I carry a lot of stuff in that pack that I don't need, but consider the extra weight, an exercise benefit.

Hi

This is the best escape hood I know:
Draeger USA

Draeger is a huge German corporation specializing in breathing apparatus.

Thanks for all the replies so far. I agree that there has been some very useful info on this thread.

I took a look at the items in the two recent posts (by Am_Fear_Liath_More and Armageddon Aviator). They're both interesting pieces of gear - seems like either one would be ideal for dealing with smoke from fires, or the kind of dust pollution that happened in 9/11 on the streets of Manhattan. The British version of the personal hood appears to be (somewhat) fire resistant, whereas the Draeger item seems to offer breathing protection - but not heat protection. I could be wrong about that, though.

I'm taking a look at the various suggestions on this thread. I will definitely add some kind of breathing protection to my emergency gear.

cheers,
Pete2

Hi,

Both models ( Draeger & MSA ) are made of heat resistant material ( will protect against short flame contact ).

I haven't been able to find a "fire-proof" escape hood ( aluminum coated Nomex fabric or similar...)

The Parat C can be purchased here:

Aircraft Spruce and Specialty

My first thought about poor heat/flame resistance is that a wool buff worn over the head (as a hood) it would augment the heat resistance pretty nicely. Wool buffs are super small and really versatile.

If you need a fireproof hood (with or without a mask), you probably need more than just a hood.

So in the context of a escape hood, you really don't need a super fireproof hood. The heat resistant stuff escape masks are made of are good enough for the job.

Tjin

Let me just quickly mention why I was wondering about the fire resistance of the hood.

First, I completely agree with you that if the main goal is just to escape an area in town/city that has smoke, and maybe secondary heat from a fire, then the existing products would work just fine. Same thing probably goes for evacuating your own family from a burning house - so long as you get moving quickly then those hoods should do the job.

But ... we had an incident here in Los Angeles a couple of weeks ago where a stopped car on the freeway was rear-ended at high speed. The impact ruptured the gas tank, and set the vehicle on fire. The mother who was driving the car managed (somehow) to open her drivers side door and pull herself to safety. However, she was unable to open the rear door of the car, and she could not free her 2-year old who was in a car seat (rear seat of vehicle). Bystanders were also unable to approach the car because of the flames, and by the time someone ran to get buckets of water it was too late. The 2-year old perished in the burning car.

Since hearing that story, I have been carrying my emergency crowbar in the back of my Jeep. So I was wondering in my mind if the safety hoods mentioned in this thread might have a chance of withstanding strong heating from a fire for about 30-45 secs ... just long enough to smash a back window of a burning car and extract a child. Seems like it would be a long shot - but it's worth contemplating.

Pete2

Generally, when one sees that some article is fire resistant; it is referring to flammability resistance, not thermal protection. Even Nomex, PBI and other synthetics that are used in protective fire gear, offer minimal thermal protection. These synthetics provide flash protection, in that they will not melt to the skin. Thermal protection comes in the form of these and other synthetics being layered with a degree of thickness.

Turnouts or structural fire fighting gear have two components; the outer jacket/pants are fire resistant and generally have a water proof barrier to provide flash protection and provide a barrier to liquid (water). Then there is then a thicker quilted or fuzzy layer to provide thermal protection.

For protection to the head, firefighters wear a hood made from Nomex, PBI or other fire resistant material, this combined with the ear flaps on the helmet provide a degree of heat protection. However, it is still possible to get burned directly from the heat or from steam generated from water vapor. Ears are especially prone to getting burned.

Despite the thermal protection, due to sweat buildup, wherever there are straps (from SCBA) there exists the potential for getting steam burns.

My best guess is any thermal protection provided by fire resistant hoods used on these escape systems is minimal at best.

Pete

Pete2... a good leather biker jacket (Mandarin collar), full face helmet, and gauntlet gloves might give a Samaratan a little more time...

"These synthetics provide flash protection, in that they will not melt to the skin"

Pete - thanks for the helpful clarification.
Those particular words were sobering :-)

Les - I do have biker gear. Fire might destroy the gear, but I wonder how fast? Seems like that if you had a thick jacket & pants, plus Nomex gloves (with insulation) and some reasonable face protection, the rescue I'm describing might be possible. Of course - it's easy to say all this when sitting in front of a computer. But it's probably a whole different story at the accident scene.

Pete2

Pete2.. it's been so hot down here, I don't even wear my open weave Joe Rocket jacket, much less the HD jacket I got when I bought the Sportster...it's like riding in a turbo oven... the full face Shoei saved me when I decided to jump off the DL1000 and lead with my head (pneumothorax is now on my resume)... my FJR is a rocketship!

I read about that car accident the other day. Tragic. However, these products, like the Draeger or Safe Escape, are smoke hoods, and not intended to withstand direct flames for any length of time. There's also a good chance that if the surrounding air is hot enough to burn you severely, the air from the filter may also be hot enough to burn your lungs. The filters on these smoke hoods do not have any capacity to significantly cool incoming air.

This is probably something that may freak out someone who actually has to use a smoke hood in a fire. They may think that putting on a hood should somehow provide cool, clean air to breathe but it turns out to be hot, too. ParamedicPete mentioned staying out of oxygen deprived areas because they don't carry any oxygen on board. You also need to stay out of areas that are too hot when using these smoke hoods.

For the scenario you described, a big extinguisher might be more useful in buying some precious seconds to extricate a trapped child rather than going into the flames with just a flame-resistant hood on, to say the least of the rest of your unprotected body, like your hands/arms.

Arney - good suggestion. Thanks for the reminder on inhaling hot air - I need to keep that in mind. I'll look into reasonable prices for larger fire extinguishers.

BTW, I really need to brush up my knowledge of basic firefighting. I looked at the larger extinguishers for sale on the Internet (e.g. 4-pound fire extinguisher). They apparently spray monoammonium phosphate on a fire. Is this effective for fires that ignite from spilled gasoline? What are the pro's and con's?

cheers,
Pete2

When I came on the job,we fought fires without hoods or bunker gear, and somehow we survived and the fires went out.The gear IS good, also heavier,harder to move, and hotter. It keeps the heat in so we over heat,but over all it does protect well.

What do I keep in my cars gear wise ? Nothing. Ok I got some old gloves. A 5 pound ABC ext. to put a small fire out but thats about it .

The ones I looked at are rated for B - flammable liquids, also for solids (A) and electrical (C). That is generally the kind of extinguisher to obtain.