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#231756 - 09/09/11 04:28 PM Re: Interstate 5: It's a chute! [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
paramedicpete Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1920
Loc: Frederick, Maryland

Quote:
Plugging a tire will damage it because air will get between the inner and outer layer and cause a rupture.



As long as the leak is not in the side wall, plugging a tire works quite well for small leaks such as those caused by a nail. I have had many a tire plugged with no problems.

Pete

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#231769 - 09/09/11 06:11 PM Re: Interstate 5: It's a chute! [Re: paramedicpete]
Jeanette_Isabelle Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 2985
Loc: Nacogdoches, Texas
Originally Posted By: paramedicpete

Quote:
Plugging a tire will damage it because air will get between the inner and outer layer and cause a rupture.



As long as the leak is not in the side wall, plugging a tire works quite well for small leaks such as those caused by a nail. I have had many a tire plugged with no problems.

According to an independent tire place I have been going to for years (a business so honest they even turned down a job because the customer did not need the service) only patch tires, not plug them, for the reason I stated.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
I'm not sure whose twisted idea it was to put hundreds of adolescents in underfunded schools run by people whose dreams were crushed years ago, but I admire the sadism. -- Wednesday Adams, Wednesday

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#231773 - 09/09/11 07:36 PM Re: Interstate 5: It's a chute! [Re: Susan]
JohnN Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/10/01
Posts: 966
Loc: Seattle, WA
Hmm. AFAIK, Discount Tire plugs + patches tires.

-john

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#231775 - 09/09/11 07:46 PM Re: Interstate 5: It's a chute! [Re: Susan]
Teslinhiker Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/14/09
Posts: 1419
Loc: Nothern Ontario
Very timely topic, Sue.

Just an hour ago, a 6.7 earthquake hit about 300 KM west of here. So far no report of damage near the area. When the tremors hit here, I was just coming from the store and was in the middle of a small bridge off ramp. I felt the car handle very differently for a couple of seconds and knew from experience that this was a tremor. My first thoughts were to get off the ramp which occurred about 10 seconds later and by then the tremors were gone.

By time I arrived home about 10 minutes later, the earthquake was already on the radio and news websites here. people are mostly taking it in stride and were reporting shaking light fixtures etc and no damage. Due to the tremors occurring during lunch, some had extended lunch breaks until their respective work places gave the all clear report.

Getting back to your post. Around here, there are not many freeways as compared to Seattle and we do not have the lined barriers etc that you do. I have seen these freeways down there on the occasional trip for a NFL or MLB game and have often wondered what and how bad it would to be stuck there during a major disaster...
_________________________
Earth and sky, woods and fields, lakes and rivers, the mountain and the sea, are excellent schoolmasters, and teach some of us more than we can ever learn from books.

John Lubbock

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#231776 - 09/09/11 07:58 PM Re: Interstate 5: It's a chute! [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
Teslinhiker Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/14/09
Posts: 1419
Loc: Nothern Ontario
Originally Posted By: JeanetteIsabelle
Originally Posted By: paramedicpete

Quote:
Plugging a tire will damage it because air will get between the inner and outer layer and cause a rupture.



As long as the leak is not in the side wall, plugging a tire works quite well for small leaks such as those caused by a nail. I have had many a tire plugged with no problems.

According to an independent tire place I have been going to for years (a business so honest they even turned down a job because the customer did not need the service) only patch tires, not plug them, for the reason I stated.

Jeanette Isabelle


I agree with Paramedic Pete. I have previous professional tire repair experience and most nail type punctures are easily and safely repaired with plugs as long as the puncture is not in the sidewall. Any reputable shop will not plug nor patch sidewall punctures of any type and if a shop tells you it is ok, find another shop.


_________________________
Earth and sky, woods and fields, lakes and rivers, the mountain and the sea, are excellent schoolmasters, and teach some of us more than we can ever learn from books.

John Lubbock

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#231780 - 09/09/11 08:50 PM Re: Interstate 5: It's a chute! [Re: paramedicpete]
celler Offline
Addict

Registered: 12/25/03
Posts: 410
Loc: Jupiter, FL
Originally Posted By: paramedicpete

Quote:
Plugging a tire will damage it because air will get between the inner and outer layer and cause a rupture.



As long as the leak is not in the side wall, plugging a tire works quite well for small leaks such as those caused by a nail. I have had many a tire plugged with no problems.

Pete


I am 100% with Pete on this one. I would not recommend Fix-a-Flat for anything other than the most dire emergency, especially if your vehicle has a tire pressure monitoring system. Additionally, it makes huge mess inside the wheel and is known to be corrosive.

I have also successfully used plugs, my favorite is the commercial grade Safety Seal. As long as the damage is at least 1/2 inch from the sidewall, you should not have any problems. I have never had a Safety Seal plug leak and I've done dozens of them. I have a Safety Seal kit in each car and they have saved me much time.

The reason some of your franchise shops won't do plugs any more is simply because of legal concerns because of stupid lawsuits involving improper use or overuse of plugs.

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#231781 - 09/09/11 08:51 PM Re: Interstate 5: It's a chute! [Re: Susan]
JBMat Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 745
Loc: NC
Interesting problem.

Abandon car with some survival items onboard to walk out carrying items. You're more or less at the mercy of the crowd there. You are a have, they are the have-nots.

I think I would try and get off the road ASAP, parking the car on the side, then get over/through a fence if needed, and make my way home on the surface/secondary roads. Could be problematic. While I've only been to the PNW once, I know the type of roads you mean.

In this case, the radio may be the most important item to have, short term. At the very least you could find the source of the problems and any expected solution times.

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#231784 - 09/09/11 10:10 PM Re: Interstate 5: It's a chute! [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
Eric Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/09/06
Posts: 323
Loc: Iowa
Originally Posted By: JeanetteIsabelle
Originally Posted By: paramedicpete

Quote:
Plugging a tire will damage it because air will get between the inner and outer layer and cause a rupture.



As long as the leak is not in the side wall, plugging a tire works quite well for small leaks such as those caused by a nail. I have had many a tire plugged with no problems.

According to an independent tire place I have been going to for years (a business so honest they even turned down a job because the customer did not need the service) only patch tires, not plug them, for the reason I stated.

Jeanette Isabelle


A patch or plug won't help on sidewall (or near sidewall) punctures due to the lateral stresses involved. The plug cannot transfer the stresses and all glues used for patching will eventually fail due to the lateral stresses. This sets up a situation that can easily lead to a catastrophic tire failure. Fix a Flat or equivalents are also not going to help this situation and should not be used.

Plugs are part of the NHTSA recommended permanent repair procedure for tread punctures and great for a temporary fix (temporary being loosely defined). The design of modern tires means the lateral stresses are carried by the "belts" so all the plug needs to do is seal the hole to prevent or reduce pressure loss. From a physics point of view this is exactly what Fix a Flat etc. will do though the plug is a much better solution since it has actual friction working for it in addition to bonds from polymers/glues. It is recommended that a patch be installed on the inside of the tire in addition to the plug, usually within a few weeks so you have some time to schedule the repair instead of treating it like an emergency. Many consider patching a properly plugged tire to be like wearing belts and suspenders - it goes under the can't hurt / might help philosophy so prevalent today.

Fix a flat etc. are popular because they require little to no skill or knowledge to use. The trade off for this convenience is that you need to get directly to a tire shop or service station and get the tire cleaned up and properly repaired. A proper repair should include both a plug and a patch.

I was unable to locate any reported incidents of a correctly plugged (and not patched) tire rupturing in the manner described above (or in any other fashion). There are several "hearsay" reports of this type of failure but I was unable to find a formal incident report documenting this. Apparently there are laws about this but again, these apply to proper repairs (as sold by tire shops etc.) and not "temporary" repairs.

Plugging is generally not considered sufficient for "permanent repair" for highly worn or some of the lower profile tires that are currently popular. In some areas plugs are not a legal permanent repair for commercial tires.

-Eric
_________________________
You are never beaten until you admit it. - - General George S. Patton


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#231787 - 09/09/11 11:45 PM Re: Interstate 5: It's a chute! [Re: Eric]
Jeanette_Isabelle Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 2985
Loc: Nacogdoches, Texas
Originally Posted By: Eric
A patch or plug won't help on sidewall (or near sidewall) punctures due to the lateral stresses involved. The plug cannot transfer the stresses and all glues used for patching will eventually fail due to the lateral stresses. This sets up a situation that can easily lead to a catastrophic tire failure.

I can't find anything I have said that could have alluded to a patch working on a sidewall.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
I'm not sure whose twisted idea it was to put hundreds of adolescents in underfunded schools run by people whose dreams were crushed years ago, but I admire the sadism. -- Wednesday Adams, Wednesday

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#231788 - 09/09/11 11:55 PM Re: Interstate 5: It's a chute! [Re: Susan]
RayW Offline
Addict

Registered: 12/06/01
Posts: 601
Loc: Orlando, FL
+1 on the Safety Seal plugs. I have used 100's of the plugs on my own rides and on a few of my friends cars. And I have never had a problem with one of the the safety seal plugs.

Two of my cars have no spare tire and being wide low profile tires act like a magnet for nails and screws. I always carry a plug kit and a 12 volt compressor in the back, just in case. My record so far was after a trip though a home depot parking lot and I had 5 drywall screws in my tires, three screws in one tire.

Have also been told all kinds of horror stories of why you should never use tire plugs. But the flip side of this is one of my friends is a dealership mechanic on very expensive cars (the high end models top out at nearly $300k, cool cars but out of my budget) he uses the Safety Seal plugs on his customers cars. They do not charge anything for them and do no paper work so that there is no record of the tire being repaired for liability reasons. But they have had no trouble with plugged tires.

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