Since reading that great article at Outside Magazine, "Totally Psyched for the Full-Rip Nine", I've been paying more attention to my most common driving route on Interstate 5, Everett to Chehalis.

If a major shake hits during peak traffic hours, it's going to be one awful mess!

This freeway has been designed (apparently specifically) NOT to let anyone off the freeway except at designated ramps.

Wire fences would not be a problem, I would just go through those, but just about the only fences I see are really in the flatter areas around the exits and onramps.

The sides of the freeway are lined with either concrete barriers, concrete walls (tall), closely-growing trees, very dense/tall wild blackberry bushes, or slopes so steep that I couldn't even climb them with lower 4WD.

So, any section of freeway that has a collapsed overpass sitting on it and doesn't have an open exit ahead is going to be a parking lot. Even if there was room for people in the right lane to turn around and creep back to the exit, more vehicles would be lining the onramps behind. And, of course, if a few little cars had left enough driving room ahead of them and stopped that way, then maneuvered to get turned around, the morons behind them would move up to block the openings they left.

So, this would be an interesting dilemma.

I could wait for hours in place, hoping the people behind me could get turned back and exit via the onramps (or alongside them), so eventually I could exit there.

Or, I could just get out and start walking (a long walk, with my luck).

Even after getting off the freeway, movement is likely to be strictly curtailed due to some serious debris and downed power lines.

Jeez, I hope I'm home if it happens!

Sue

OK, assume it happens, and at the worst possible point for you (e.g. longest walk to 'civilization').

It seems to me that there are 2 key questions:
1) how long do you wait in the traffic jam before you abandon the truck (and what I assume is more equipment then you can carry/drag along with you), and,
2) can you realistically safely walk out under bad conditions (the assumption automatically assumes some bad conditions, but maybe add bad weather) to 'civilization'?

Good Intelligence, that is, good real time information, about what is going on, could be key to this decision. How to get it? Rely on local news? CB radio reports? other? Do you trust the sources to get it right?

I was once trapped in my car by bad weather (snow) for about 12 hours. It was not clear if it was better to stay put, or try to walk out. It is a tough decision to abandon relative safety for the unknown. I stayed put: at the time, it seemed to me that cold and dry beat cold and wet.

Another consideration is that the initial mega-quake will be followed by lots of aftershocks -- some of them major quakes.

Whether the situation will warrant staying with the truck or hoofing it, I'd be wanting a good size and comfortable backpack full of the gear-supplies we discuss here constantly.

And comfortable hiking boots and extra socks. And cash.

Do you currently carry that stuff on a routine basis?

A brisk walking pace would be 3mph.

You're going to want constant access to news reports to guide your decisions -- so a portable AM-FM radio and extra batteries should be part of the mix. It would save running your car battery down.

If the local radio stations are knocked out, be on the lookout for a vehicle that may have satellite radio. It will be important to know the epicenter and magnitude of the quake.

I'm guessing I'd want to stay with my vehicle unless and until it was absolutely necessary to abandon it. Especially in the winter. If there's a major quake then emergency services will soon be checking out I-5 -- helicopters will be flying over in short order -- and they'll be very eager to restore that major transportation route to some degree of functionality -- including punching through guardrails if necessary.

Folding bicycle? (and a gun to ensure you can keep it)

Good point. My own suggestion would be one that also has HF (aka shortwave) bands in case all the local stations are out. I have a Grundig Mini-world am-fm radio with 6 HF bands that is about the size of a pack of cards and runs on 2 AA batteries. I've carried and used it on many overseas trips. It rivals my, now museum piece, Zenith R-1000 short wave radio, which is huge and takes something like 10 D cells to power and weighs about 5 pounds or more.

as bws48 commented...you are in an OODA loop with your decision making process, and those of us not living in the earthquake region can only offer suggestions not made from actual experiences...I'll offer some generic comments..

my GHB(hydration pack built in) is in the car...and even at my age can probably make 30 miles a day provided I can access water I can purify (Sawyer filter bottle)...food for two days @ 2 meals a day plus snack....additionally in the car...16 pack of water dedicated, plus partial case of water and GatorAde I use for shooting competitions...Swiss Ranger stove and Sterno to cook with...fence pliers/machete if I need to make a short cut through a chain link fence

tarp and cordage, poncho and mosquito netting in GHB... for sun shade if I wait for help and camp in car

handgun, extra mags, Israeli dressing and QuickClot in a non threatening shoulder bag

pretty extensive trauma FAK

12v charger for EDC'd cell phone... connected it may give you extra charge to access to marginal towers if local ones damaged

my GPS is a Garmin nuvi 500 and has topo maps of the US...also an old copy of an Rand McNally Road Atlas

I drive about 150 roundtrip miles a week on the interstate, so have a "peaked" CB with a 12v cigarette power cord...although semi permanent mounted with velcro and plastic cable ties to the underside of the ash tray...could easily be stowed in a gym bag..I purchased a good magnetic mount antenna and adjusted the standing wave ratio to a location on the rear roof of my Explorer...even with the antenna tied down to enter my garage door, get a couple of miles range...I get good intel from truckers as to traffic slowdowns and open alternative routes... small portable AM/FM battery portable in GHB

for vehicle support...good pair of jumper cables, full size spare, tire plug kit, assorted hand tools, and hand air pump

I have no immediate need to make it home...I'm single, no pets to feed, and not a care giver...I would like to think that I could if the circumstances required it...

good luck

Hmm, this is a tough one.

Just playing devil's advocate here, but even if you know that you can walk all the way back to "somewhere", you could also be making the situation more difficult for other people.

Drivers who abandon their cars make it harder to clear the road and reopen it to traffic, and major freeway like I-5 will be a priority. Reports of people hopping the guardrail and hoofing it cross-country could waste valuable resources on SAR teams sent to make sure those people are all right or to give them a lift because they're too tired or dehydrated to go on. Even walking back along the freeway, at some point, you may encounter free flowing traffic again, and people walking on the shoulder of an interstate is not a very safe mix.

Yeah, it's a tough call. What seems common sense to you as an individual may just cause bigger headaches to the folks trying hard to help all of you stuck in the same situation. It's like people stuck on a jet plane on the tarmac in winter. "Obviously" turning the plane around or bringing those movable stairs to the plane so you can walk back to the terminal seem like common sense solutions, but people don't realize the difficulties involved that prevent such "common sense" actions from taking place.

I certainly don't have a ready answer for this since there are so many variables involved.

I would be inclined to stay with the vehicle. It can hold a lot more useful material than I can carry on an impromptu hike. As you point out, there are many variables and circumstances vary.

That happened here this past winter when "snow-jams" crippled the metro area at rush hour. On the GW Parkway along the Potomac, many cars (usually out of fuel) were abandoned by owners.

The scariest scenario, to me, is such an earthquake happening during a particularly cold winter week.

Summer days west of the Cascades are usually quite tolerable without air conditioning. But an earthquake striking during below-freezing temperatures means people freezing when the fuel runs out in their cars or the power goes out in their homes. Pipes would freeze in unheated homes.

Especially in winter - everyone everywhere should have means of staying warm in their vehicle if it breaks down for any reason.

Yes, it's a puzzlement!

I do have a smaller backpack that I keep in the car, with some basic stuff in it, but not as much as I would like. We can't keep too much on board because the rail crews usually carry a LOT of gear with them, and even two or three of them will fill up the back of the Suburban.

I have the RR radio anchored in the vehicle, with multiple channels (plus NOAA weather), but I don't know if I could trust info from the RR any more than I could from the 19-YO gumchewer in the next car.

But I am suspecting that if it happened, many people would just abandon their vehicles where they sit and walk away. This has already happened in Seattle in an ice storm a few years ago. It was a real mess.

I know the interstates were actually designed as runways, but I'll bet the govt would have to do a lot of clearing of abandoned vehicles before they could land a single plane. It would be easier if people left their keys in the ignition, but you know that won't happen. Maybe semi bobtails could do a little tractor work, and shove them to the side of the road.

The bridges could be interesting, too.

Sue

Susan,

Do you drive the same Suburban every time?

Could you break a few things out into pouches that you could put on your backpack's hip belt and shoulder belts?

Perhaps the pouches could be stuffed under the seats. I'm thinking a pouch that has some energy bars. Another that has essentials such as are in Doug's PSK.

Sounds like you often have passengers - would that be good or bad when an earthquake strikes? That many more peops in the vehicle needing water and food....

But I'd rather not be alone. Depends on the peops, I guess.

Hi Sue - interesting dilemma. I had something perhaps peripherally related (way LESS drama than your scenario), but perhaps something that can apply.

Snowbound/stuck in traffic on interstate. http://forums.equipped.org/ubbthreads.ph...true#Post217978

The maddening thing for us was, with a nearly full gas tank, never turned off the car, never cold or in the dark, functioning radio, functioning smart phones for calls and Internet connection, we could get almost ZERO relevant information...we were within probably a half mile or less of an exit. Were they working to clear the roads so we could exit to surface streets and bypass the traffic jam and make it home? Were we going to have to resign ourselves to staying the night in the car?

We could never get any answer on that - no online news, no radio reports, even repeated calls to local and state police non-emergency lines (which were swamped) could give us any indication that any resources were coming our way to help get us off the interstate. The police of the city we were approaching the exit of appeared to have no idea that clearing a handful of stuck cars/trucks might open up the exit we could almost see.

So, getting that kind of information is really key to making your decision, but you may find that almost any kind of technology won't get you the answer you need. At least, that was my experience in this case.

Another time, years ago, during the '03 blackout, an AM/FM radio was all that was needed to get the right info. I was stuck in a subway car (above ground) and news reports eventually made it clear there wouldn't be any return of power in the near term - so I could make the decision to hoof it (and convince some people determined to wait for the next train there wouldn't be one).

Good luck in your planning

Dave

Information is exactly why having and using a highly capable digital scanner is so helpful. Hearing the agencies around you as they respond gives you nearly instant information on the situation. They aren't inexpensive and can be complex to program but it's the next best thing to being there.

With sites like RadioReference.com you have all the info you need to program the radio. (I do this for my commute and for any roadtrips I have planned. Including Colorado to Seattle and back last Christmas.)

Yes, I drive the same one every time.

I actually have two stashes, one is under the middle seat. But they'll be dumping my rig in less than 50,000 miles, so I'll either get a newer Suburban or one of the Chevy vans (*gag*). But the newer Suburbans have less stash space than mine. They have absolutely NO space under the seats. For such a large vehicle, they have no storage space other than the rear compartment.

I'm usually alone half the time. I'm hoping that I don't have anyone with me at the time. All of them except one live north, and I live south. There could be some conflict there!

Sue

Just FYI, Interstates were never designed to be runways.

Here's a little info on where the myth may have originated.
http://www.backcountrypilot.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5305&start=0

In my part of the world they plant close growing trees too, but their purpose (apart from aesthetics and noise reduction) are to act as a barrier "net" to slow down and stop an out of control vehicle.

Consequently the type of trees chosen tend to be (relatively) small, narrow trunk species, rather than big heavy trunked trees which would stop a vehicle like a brick wall.

So perhaps you could add a saw to your kit; it would take time, but perhaps you could cut your way out ? With a Suburban (in low), you may even be able to push through, or half cut the trunks then push through ?

If you abandon your vehicle, it would be best to move it as far off the side of the road as possible. That way it will not block other vehicles and is less likely to be damaged if authorities start to “push” abandoned vehicles off the road. If you do need to abandon it on the road, leave the keys in it – what have you got to lose ?

The trees here are usually Douglas fir and alder. It would be a job cutting them down.

Sue

Well, with this massive blackout in the San Diego region (and which almost reached my neighborhood in Orange County), there's another reason to end up stuck on the freeway. I was reading this USA Today article on it, and someone mentioned that they saw a dozen drivers back up on the freeway to reach an exit behind them because they didn't want to sit in gridlock up ahead. Yeah, that's smart.

Yes, I would start out with the assumption that after a decent sized quake in this area cars will be paralyzed.

-john

Instead of a tire plug kit, I recommend a can of Fix-A-Flat. It is easy to use and it will get you to a garage that will patch a flat tire rather than plug it. Of course, when you get to the garage, inform them that you used Fix-A-Flat. Fix-A-Flat does not harm your tire but you need to inform them for their safety.

Plugging a tire will damage it because air will get between the inner and outer layer and cause a rupture.

Jeanette Isabelle

As long as the leak is not in the side wall, plugging a tire works quite well for small leaks such as those caused by a nail. I have had many a tire plugged with no problems.

Pete

According to an independent tire place I have been going to for years (a business so honest they even turned down a job because the customer did not need the service) only patch tires, not plug them, for the reason I stated.

Jeanette Isabelle

Hmm. AFAIK, Discount Tire plugs + patches tires.

-john

Very timely topic, Sue.

Just an hour ago, a 6.7 earthquake hit about 300 KM west of here. So far no report of damage near the area. When the tremors hit here, I was just coming from the store and was in the middle of a small bridge off ramp. I felt the car handle very differently for a couple of seconds and knew from experience that this was a tremor. My first thoughts were to get off the ramp which occurred about 10 seconds later and by then the tremors were gone.

By time I arrived home about 10 minutes later, the earthquake was already on the radio and news websites here. people are mostly taking it in stride and were reporting shaking light fixtures etc and no damage. Due to the tremors occurring during lunch, some had extended lunch breaks until their respective work places gave the all clear report.

Getting back to your post. Around here, there are not many freeways as compared to Seattle and we do not have the lined barriers etc that you do. I have seen these freeways down there on the occasional trip for a NFL or MLB game and have often wondered what and how bad it would to be stuck there during a major disaster...

I agree with Paramedic Pete. I have previous professional tire repair experience and most nail type punctures are easily and safely repaired with plugs as long as the puncture is not in the sidewall. Any reputable shop will not plug nor patch sidewall punctures of any type and if a shop tells you it is ok, find another shop.

I am 100% with Pete on this one. I would not recommend Fix-a-Flat for anything other than the most dire emergency, especially if your vehicle has a tire pressure monitoring system. Additionally, it makes huge mess inside the wheel and is known to be corrosive.

I have also successfully used plugs, my favorite is the commercial grade Safety Seal. As long as the damage is at least 1/2 inch from the sidewall, you should not have any problems. I have never had a Safety Seal plug leak and I've done dozens of them. I have a Safety Seal kit in each car and they have saved me much time.

The reason some of your franchise shops won't do plugs any more is simply because of legal concerns because of stupid lawsuits involving improper use or overuse of plugs.

Interesting problem.

Abandon car with some survival items onboard to walk out carrying items. You're more or less at the mercy of the crowd there. You are a have, they are the have-nots.

I think I would try and get off the road ASAP, parking the car on the side, then get over/through a fence if needed, and make my way home on the surface/secondary roads. Could be problematic. While I've only been to the PNW once, I know the type of roads you mean.

In this case, the radio may be the most important item to have, short term. At the very least you could find the source of the problems and any expected solution times.

A patch or plug won't help on sidewall (or near sidewall) punctures due to the lateral stresses involved. The plug cannot transfer the stresses and all glues used for patching will eventually fail due to the lateral stresses. This sets up a situation that can easily lead to a catastrophic tire failure. Fix a Flat or equivalents are also not going to help this situation and should not be used.

Plugs are part of the NHTSA recommended permanent repair procedure for tread punctures and great for a temporary fix (temporary being loosely defined). The design of modern tires means the lateral stresses are carried by the "belts" so all the plug needs to do is seal the hole to prevent or reduce pressure loss. From a physics point of view this is exactly what Fix a Flat etc. will do though the plug is a much better solution since it has actual friction working for it in addition to bonds from polymers/glues. It is recommended that a patch be installed on the inside of the tire in addition to the plug, usually within a few weeks so you have some time to schedule the repair instead of treating it like an emergency. Many consider patching a properly plugged tire to be like wearing belts and suspenders - it goes under the can't hurt / might help philosophy so prevalent today.

Fix a flat etc. are popular because they require little to no skill or knowledge to use. The trade off for this convenience is that you need to get directly to a tire shop or service station and get the tire cleaned up and properly repaired. A proper repair should include both a plug and a patch.

I was unable to locate any reported incidents of a correctly plugged (and not patched) tire rupturing in the manner described above (or in any other fashion). There are several "hearsay" reports of this type of failure but I was unable to find a formal incident report documenting this. Apparently there are laws about this but again, these apply to proper repairs (as sold by tire shops etc.) and not "temporary" repairs.

Plugging is generally not considered sufficient for "permanent repair" for highly worn or some of the lower profile tires that are currently popular. In some areas plugs are not a legal permanent repair for commercial tires.

-Eric

I can't find anything I have said that could have alluded to a patch working on a sidewall.

Jeanette Isabelle

+1 on the Safety Seal plugs. I have used 100's of the plugs on my own rides and on a few of my friends cars. And I have never had a problem with one of the the safety seal plugs.

Two of my cars have no spare tire and being wide low profile tires act like a magnet for nails and screws. I always carry a plug kit and a 12 volt compressor in the back, just in case. My record so far was after a trip though a home depot parking lot and I had 5 drywall screws in my tires, three screws in one tire.

Have also been told all kinds of horror stories of why you should never use tire plugs. But the flip side of this is one of my friends is a dealership mechanic on very expensive cars (the high end models top out at nearly $300k, cool cars but out of my budget) he uses the Safety Seal plugs on his customers cars. They do not charge anything for them and do no paper work so that there is no record of the tire being repaired for liability reasons. But they have had no trouble with plugged tires.

I did not mean to imply that you had and in re-reading my comments I can't find anything I wrote that implied or alluded anything along those lines.

There are multiple documented instances of failed sidewall repairs leading to fatal car wrecks so I wanted to include the information for completeness, and place it first to make sure anyone stumbling across this discussion understood both the risks and the reasons why it is not a good idea.

My apologies for the misunderstanding,

- Eric

Four times I've gotten a flat tire, and tried to use Fix-A-Flat. In every case, it did not work. If it works for you, great, but I've stopped buying it.

Also, I'm told that if your wheel has a tire pressure sensor, Fix-A-Flat isn't good for them.

Fortunately, we only have to worry about weather here in the northeast. Or terrorist attack, as we are currently under a semi-secret alert in our area.

Getting stuck in traffic for hours is no fun. I know, I just went through this today as several highways and major boulevards are closed due to flooding. But at least you have movement, even if it is measured in meters per hour instead of miles. You come to realize the wisdom of packing quart-size bottles of Gatorade, as the empty bottles are a convenient option -- at least for guys -- when the nearest rest room is too far off to contemplate. For the females in my company, though there were none today, I pack a "Freshette" female urination director, which with some care, extends the convenience of the Gatorade bottle option to those lacking exterior plumbing. A good supply of napkins and pre-moistoned wipes is a recommended accessory.

The Gatorade rests in one of my favorite Jeep accessories, a 12V/DC Engel refrigerator in the cargo area, along with bottles of spring water. 4 quarts of Gatorade and 4 half-liter bottles of water fill the 14-quart cooler nicely (how do that measure that?). Unfortunately, the fridge does not prevent things from freezing in the winter, but the bottles are tough enough to withstand multiple freeze/thaw cycles without bursting or leaking. Since I normally drink one bottle every day or two, rotating fresh stock is not a problem.

Two years ago Costco was selling First Aid Only brand survival kits. These included a 2400-calorie lifeboat ration, six 0.25L packets of water, hand warmers, mylar blanket, disposable poncho and some other baubles for $16 each. I bought two for each vehicle, added some extras and mounted them under the front driver's and passenger's seat. There's also a good FAK, LED flashlight, jumper cables, multi-tool, wrecking bar, folding snow shovel, tow strap, signal flares and triangles, and a dry bag containing a micro-fleece blanket and two sets each of insulated leather gloves, micro-fleece toques, and wool socks stowed either under the rear seat or in the trunk. These things are considered part of the vehicle, just like the jack and spare tire, so even if one of the kids goes out with no other preparation, they have some minimal survival items.

Then I have my GHB. I'd like each of the kids to have a GHB in their vehicle, but they have resisted the idea. I tried just putting GHB's together for them and putting them in their vehicles, and they shortly found their way into the garage or storage shed to make room for one thing or another. After a few cycles I gave up.

My GHB includes 2 changes of underwear/socks/liners, one complete change of clothing, a mid-weight base layer, mylar sleeping bag, thermal sleeping bag liner, inflatable mattress, tarp/poncho, non-perishable food, alcohol stove w/8oz fuel, FAK, multi-tool, flashlight, cash and other essentials to either survive in my car or on foot for 3 days.

Sue

I commute daily from Lakewood to Olympia, what many here don't realize is there really is not an alternative route except to have a plan to head out to the penninsula and take a ferry from Bremerton.
In the event of a catastrophic earthquake, I doubt many of the bridges and overpasses would survive. Counting the rivers between Everett and Centralia quickly adds up to over a dozen bridges, depending upon the time of year crossing some of them could be quite perilous.
Honestly, a good contingency plan problem should include networking friends and relatives along the way that could offer you a place to stay. In that kind of event you very well could be several weeks until you get home.
We are very vulnerable and I don't have to tell you that we are already too congested. Any disaster would make the situation quite untenable.
Do you know anyone with a boat? The only way you could be sure to get from one end of Puget Sound to the other after infrastructure failure would probably have to include water or airlift...

Punctures less that 1/4" in the tread area can usually be safely repaired. Proper repair consists of both plugging and patching the puncture, or using a mushroom patch (combination patch+plug). The patch reseals the inner liner to prevent air from leaking, while the plug seals the outer layers to prevent moisture from getting into the belts/cords. The puncture must be plugged, the plug trimmed flush, then innerliner must be cleaned, buffed, cemented, patched and coated. Neither one by itself is considered ideal. This is official tire industry (Rubber Manufacturer's Association) "best practice." Most tire shops will follow this procedure, not only because it promises the best results, but because by following "best practice" it limits their liability should the repair fail resulting in an accident. But this is not a roadside repair, so from a survival perspective it is impractical. (Also note that many manufacturers consider the tire's speed rating void if it has been repaired, even following best practices.)

Plugs are coated with vulcanizing glue to provide an air-tight, water-tight seal. If applied correctly they can and do adequately fix most small punctures. I have driven on tires I've plugged myself, occasionally more than once, for months and years, until the tread was used up, without issues. Granted, I'm not driving a sports car at high speeds and G-forces, so your mileage may vary, but I do put on over 30k miles a year, mostly highway.

Going further, as I mentioned in past posts, I do a lot of off-roading. It is not uncommon to experience major cuts or punctures on the trail. I can tell you from practical experience that it is indeed possible to plug both larger tread punctures and even sidewall cuts. It will take lots of plugs. I think our club's current record is 30 plugs in one sidewall cut. The most I've personally seen is 12. No, it is not safe to drive at highways speeds. But it can be done in an emergency to get out of a hazardous situation and make it to someplace where the tire can be replaced while you wait in safety. I have seen fellow club members continue to use tires repaired with multiple plugs for months on the trail and for around-town driving. Not recommended, but it is an indication that even a horrible plug job can be used to get you to safety.

Finally, doing a roadside plug repair does not mean you can't then have the tire properly repaired. A single plug is one part of the ideal repair procedure. Once you can get a to a tire shop they can finish the job by trimming the plug and applying a patch. This means there is no downside to using a plug. Worst case is you have to use more than one plug to seal the hole, but that tire would require replacement anyway, so there's really no downside and the upside is you are mobile again, albeit at a slower rate with possibly limited range.

So in an ideal situation, where you have a spare and can safely change your tire then drive to a shop for repair, having the repair done properly with a plug and patch is the way to go. But if the situation is hazardous, a quick plug and air-up can get you going in minutes, then deal with the final repair later.

As for fix-a-flat, slime and other tire sealants, I have never seen them work, either. But I have seen them make a big mess that is time consuming to clean when the attempting to repair or change the tire.

It certainly would be an interesting challenge, wouldn't it?

I read somewhere that the metal bridges (such as over the Nisqually) are more likely to hold together than the concrete ones. They probably have more give to them.

I wonder how well JBLM would fit into the equation, esp in the area of your commute?

As long as I'm hoping that I'm home when it happes, I'll hope you're home, too.

Sue