I have had good luck with it on insects but even with our discussion a while back had indicated it wasn't useful on snakes. I still would probably try it, if I had nothing to lose and help wasn't coming or self rescue wasn't possible. I had remembered the story nighthiker had told with the marine who got bit on the hand/arm and he tried it and it still had swollen up, etc..
I wish something would work but it seems no matter if it's electricity, suction, voodoo doll or what have you, if you don't have antivenin you are going to be in big trouble.

http://forums.equipped.org/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=99868&page=3

One thing I have long wondered about as an emergency treatment for snakebite.

Sugar and salt both have absorbing effects on certain things, esp moisture.

I believe salt is used for curing meats (I've never done it, my knowledge of the how-tos are very vague).

An older method of dealing with a uterine prolapse (inside out) of dairy cattle after/during giving birth was to cover the exposed uterus with quite a large amount of sugar, to shrink the organ enough so it could be put back into the cow.

It has occurred to me that if I were snake-bitten, with no help coming anytime soon, and I had a goodly amount of either salt or sugar at hand, I would try it: pile some on, wait a bit, scrape off any salt/sugar that had absorbed any moisture, then add more salt or sugar, and repeat.

I don't know how much good it would do, but I don't think it would do much harm, either.

This is just my own idea, I have never seen such a thing advocated online or anywhere else. I've seen quite a few snakebites, and the idea of just sitting there watching my leg or arm swell and turn red and then black as the skin dies just doesn't appeal very much.

Any thought on this idea from medical personnel? Good, bad, ineffective idea?

Sue

It's an intriguing idea, but if it worked, I think people would've figured this particular question out a long time ago.

Actually, assuming that there's any similarity, brining a turkey makes it more moist and juicy as some of the salt penetrates the bird. Drawing more fluid into the affected area seems to be the opposite of what you think it is going to do. The salt in the brine also serves to help break down the turkey meat. If you've been bitten with venom that is trying to break down your tissues, helping it along also doesn't seem to be a wise idea.

Besides, even if you were able to somehow only draw out fluid from the swollen bite site and that's all, I'm still not sure that's the best thing to do. Any remaining venom and toxins that your damaged cells are releasing as they die and split open would tend to get more concentrated as the water content in the swollen area decreases. It doesn't matter after some point, but again, I don't think it helps any.

But that's just my Food Network-based opinion, so I'm all ears on alternate answers.

Its very interesting to read that different countries take different approaches to snake bite.

In Australia, for many years now, Pressure Immobilization has been the prefered treatment for all snake bites. Of course we have a lot of neurotoxic snakes here, and (I think) fairly high levels on en-venomation (ie even when a snake bites, it does not always inject venom, and the amount of venom can vary too).

I carry two (quality) compression bandages (and a couple of safety pins to secure them) to be used to apply pressure to the limb. Here's a copy of the "Crisis Card" which I carry with the kit:

Pressure-immobilisation
• REST and REASSURE the casualty
• BANDAGE FIRMLY, initially cover the bite site then cover the whole limb starting from fingers/toes
• IMMOBILISE limb.
• DO NOT wash the bite area
• DO NOT elevate the limb
• Call Ambulance on xxx or xxx from mobile
(Different numbers down here)


Here's a good Australian article on Pressure Immobilization, its well worth a read:
http://www.avru.org/compendium/biogs/A000066b.htm

Has anybody else had snake nightmares after thinking about this topic too much?

I know sugar has been used as coagulant and topical antibiotic for gunshot wounds dating back to the 18th century. Sort of an early Quikclot. I have no idea what it would do against the snake venom, but keeping the venom concentrated near the wound site doesn't sound like a good idea. I'm guessing it would damage the local tissues much more severely then if it had diluted.

On the other hand, would you rather lose your leg or your life?

Rattlesnake bite not cheap. Antivenin per vial $500-1000 x 5-20+ vials, depending on variables. Plus provider costs (physician, hospital etc).

That stuff has really gone up. I had to pick up a couple of doses from the local hospital pharmacy in Glendora, CA when I worked for the vet there. I signed a receipt for $34 for both.

Sue

If I'm in remote country, I usually carry a Sawyer extractor with me. My main hope is to use it for insect bites, and skin punctures due to thorns. In both cases it has the potential to be very helpful for those types of wounds. I would also use it on a needle-stick accident, if working around patients where blood is being drawn. Always the same basic idea ... get blood flowing out of the body, and hopefully carrying any infectious agents out with it.

Sawyers were invented for snakebite, but I think research has shown that they only remove maybe 5-10% of the venom. Something like that. You've got to get the Sawyer directly onto the bite as soon as possible after it happens. It's probably very worthwhile for neurotoxic venoms. Of course, if you wait too long then the venom diffuses through the veins and capillaries.

I would still use the pressure immobilization treatment for a rattlesnake bite. But the concerns here are valid. That toxin eats away flesh in nasty ways. Victims who don't die from a rattlesnake bite often lose large amounts of flesh in the bitten extremity. It's not pretty at all - quite debilitating. The moral is ... DON'T get bitten!! Stay alert.

I looked into carrying anti-venins, but they are expensive and unless you've got a lot of training it's probably a no-go. It might work if you positively know that the threat only comes from one kind of snake e.g. Pacific diamondback rattlesnake. i.e. you've working a specific area where such a snake is common. But otherwise there's an immediate issue that you don't have a positive ID on the snake, you're scared because the dumb thing just bit you, and there's no guarantee that you've got the correct anti-venin for the situation. Polyvalent anti-venons do exist, but again you need to be sure you've got the right species of snake. Might work in parts of the USA.

cheers,
Pete2

Hi everyone. I know I'm a noob here, but I need to say this. Throw your Sawyer Extractors in the trash. They do more harm than good. I'm a nurse practitioner in SoCal, and I happen to have been charge nurse in an ED where Sean Bush, MD used to work (Yes, the guy from the Venom ER show on Animal Planet). He is brilliant, knows snakes, and last I heard held a presidential commission to treat any ennvenomations the president might encounter. That being said, the guy also keeps live rattlesnakes *in his house*.

Anyway, he has done studies on the Sawyer Extractor (using pigs, whose skin is very similar to human's) and found that: 1) They don't extract any venom, and 2) they actually seem to cause necrosis (death) of the skin where they are used, making a wound in addition to the envenomation. Here is a link to the abstract of the paper he published on it.

It seems to me that the concept behind the Sawyer is based on a fallacy. There is no pocket of venom to be sucked out of the tissue. This should be obvious to anyone who has used a flavor injector on a turkey. Basically a giant syringe, you use them to add flavor and moisture to your turkey before you cook it (I recommend white wine in turkey, or OJ into duck). Other than the tiniest dribble when you pull the needle out, the fluid soaks into the tissue almost immediately. By the time you've sat down, gotten the kit out, opened up your pant leg, etc. it's too late. Get to the nearest ED.