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#230500 - 08/24/11 10:48 PM Re: 2 found dead in Joshua Tree NP [Re: sheldon]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
Plan your breakdown for sometime other than August.

Set up some shade outside the car.

You can't have too much water.
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Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
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#230502 - 08/25/11 12:02 AM Re: 2 found dead in Joshua Tree NP [Re: LED]
comms Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/23/08
Posts: 1502
Loc: Mesa, AZ
Well 106 degrees is only the reported temp, not the real temp on the ground. Radiate heat off sand, rock, asphalt can easily top 130+ degrees. Last summer when it was 110* by weather centers, I aimed an IR temp gauge at the ground in the parking lot I was standing in and it read 156 degrees! Since then I carry a temp gauge on my backpack and earlier this week I went on a desert geocache, obstacle course type run and that gauge read 135 degrees at its highest recording. I whipped out my iPhone to take a picture but the phone was too hot and shut down. Finally at 130 degrees it came up for a second and i could snap that.
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#230504 - 08/25/11 12:17 AM Re: 2 found dead in Joshua Tree NP [Re: sheldon]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Originally Posted By: sheldon
It's a national park and there are roads and ranger stations and such, so it doesn't feel very wild or remote. .

Incidentally, what are some strategies to stay cool in a broken down car in a desert? Cover the car with tarp or mylar, open the doors, have ice in portable freezer. Any other ideas?


While most national parks do have road access, they contain plenty of raw, screaming wilderness and many locales that are quite remote. There are large areas of some Alaskan parks that essentially have never been visited, by rangers or anyone else.

Keeping cool in desert conditions is a matter of creating shade and opening up to breezes as much as possible. The classic structure is a ramada - think a roof supported on poles - open on all sides to the open air. I would get out of the car and use my tarp to cover as wide an area as possible, using brush to support the covering. Expend as little effort as possible in doing this.

Rather than stay in the car, I would use the car to support part of my ramada.

Another option is seeking the shade of an arroyo bank, rock shelter, or anything else that offers shade. Arroyos will also support vegetation and possibly moist soil or water pools that would aid considerably.

Whatever you do you don't want to walking in the sun at midday, even with a hat with a generous full brim. Wait until sundown to travel. The best hours for hiking are usually from midnight to around 8 AM - then hole up.
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#230508 - 08/25/11 01:09 AM Re: 2 found dead in Joshua Tree NP [Re: LED]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
I can understand how some people get into deadly situations. Some are just accidents, some are poor planning, some are sheer stupidity.

But people who go into the desert in the middle of summer without some careful consideration are totally lacking in any kind of common sense. Or self-preservation.

These people KNOW the desert is very dry. They KNOW it is very hot. Presumably, they know it is dangerous because they've all seen the news articles and the movies of what the desert is like.

So they head for the desert in a low-clearance vehicle and carry two 20 oz bottles of water and a bag of Oreos.

I've been to the Eagle Mountain Mine (7 miles east of there). The area is deadly in summer. No water, almost no shade, no cell phone coverage, no people, no help. Old, washed-out roads, mostly rocks alternating with deep sand and creosote bushes.

Yes, these people were foreigners, but didn't they know danger when it was staring them in the face?

Sue

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#230512 - 08/25/11 01:28 AM Re: 2 found dead in Joshua Tree NP [Re: LED]
Dagny Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/25/08
Posts: 1918
Loc: Washington, DC

That's so sad. An unforgiving environment, to say the least.

I was planning a cross-country trip a couple years ago (which did not actually happen) and was very concerned about logistics for the stretch from Las Vegas to my cousin's place in Ridgecrest and then on to Yosemite -- and that's paved highways!

It was going to be just me and my dog. Though I have a very reliable vehicle (knock on wood) and it would be a well-traveled, paved route, the prospect of breaking down in that environment was very daunting to me.

I wouldn't do that Joshua Tree drive in those conditions if Cody Lundin was riding shotgun.

May the victims RIP and condolences to their loved ones.

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#230515 - 08/25/11 01:42 AM Re: 2 found dead in Joshua Tree NP [Re: Dagny]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
Once off-road out here especially in Death Valley, the Mojave Desert (Joshua Tree) or any other large, flat, dry, relatively uninhabited area, you are on your own.

Going there in August is something you do when you know your vehicle can handle the heat and off-road conditions and you have a real reason to go. Casual tourist site-seeing? I don't think so. My 2WD truck doesn't go there.
_________________________
Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

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#230519 - 08/25/11 02:06 AM Re: 2 found dead in Joshua Tree NP [Re: LED]
Glock-A-Roo Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 1076
I recall that the temps reported in the bottom of the Grand Canyon were for a temp sensor in the shade. In open sun the effective heat load is much higher.

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#230523 - 08/25/11 02:45 AM Re: 2 found dead in Joshua Tree NP [Re: Glock-A-Roo]
LED Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/01/05
Posts: 1474
I wonder if this tragedy was partly due to GPS tunnel vision. I find with maps, I'm generally more alert to the surroundings, paying close attention to landmarks, etc.

They were relatively young too, 38 and 44.

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#230527 - 08/25/11 06:28 AM Re: 2 found dead in Joshua Tree NP [Re: Glock-A-Roo]
MostlyHarmless Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/03/09
Posts: 982
Loc: Norway
Temperatures recorded should always be air temperature. The temperature sensor is always shaded from radiaton from the sun and other sources. In fact, shielding from radiation is exactly why the termometers are placed inside a beehive-like box that allows air flow, but shield from the sun.

If you want to know how much heat that is radiated from the sun, asphalt, rocks and so on then you need a different kind of instrument.

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#230547 - 08/25/11 03:36 PM Re: 2 found dead in Joshua Tree NP [Re: LED]
Glock-A-Roo Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 1076
Great info, NightHiker; thanks.

I'd like to point out something about operating in extremely high temps i.e. Death Valley during a heat wave. It is certainly wise and true to carry and drink plenty of fluids. But I think some people get the idea that if they just stay hydrated, the heat won't hurt them. This is not true.

If it is hot enough combined with your activity level and personal factors, you can be perfectly hydrated and still die of heat stroke. It becomes a matter of heat gain and loss. If the environment is heating your body beyond the rate at which you can cool yourself, you will get a net heat gain. If this gain heats your brain beyond a certain point, you get heat stroke and die.

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