Is the fox 40 Pearl Whistle as effective a survival wistle as the classic? Does the lower tone hinder the distance it can be heard from?

Paul810,

If my memory serves me correct, the lower the tone the farther it can reach (natuarly depending on the output "energy". Like radio frequencies, the long wave reaches thousands of klometers while the shortwave depends on bouncing against a layer in the stratosphere and Earth and so on.

The ACME 2000 also seems to use 2 frequencies and I wear earplugs when I use it so loud it is.

Best Scouting wishes from Holland,

Bagheera

Paul810,

I'm sorry Bagheera, but I believed it was just the opposite: the higher the tone, the farther it carries. Higher tones are also more distinguishable from ambient noise like traffic.

I recall trying out how far the sound of my cousin's Casio sportswatch carried underwater in a pool, the high tone was audible 20 m away. Of course that's underwater. But in the open air, I believe it's just the same. Although all people are different, higher tones are generally heard from farther away.

As for radio waves Bagheera is right, lower frequencies are carried further.

Sorry to mix you up like that. Please get a third opinion <img src="images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Luca

Luca, Paul810,

Here's something I found:

===============================
" >How about a whistle that uses low(er) pitches?
>I feel that railway whistles (??, meaning old-style metal whistles
>containing a pea) carry better than very high pitched whistles.
>Does anyone know of any papers on this subject?


Having been a music major in college, I studied sound and acoustics. Low
frequency sound definitely carries farther than high frequency. High
frequencies are usually more readily absorbed by surfaces too. The
absorption coefficients vary greatly between materials. Unfortunately, my
text books don't give an absorption coefficient for fauna. Air itself,
while carrying sound, also absorbs it. The rate of sound absorption of air
varies withtemperature and humidity.

A modern, typical example of low frequency sound carrying farther than high
frequency, is that car with the zillion watt sound system approaching from
far away. First you here that booming bass drum beat, then maybe the bass
guitar or low end synthesizer. As the car approaches you begin to hear the
mid range instruments and lastly the highs. You may hear that bass drum for
a long time before you hear any other sound from that car and for a long
time after the car disappears.

The average human ear can detect freqs from about 15 cps to 15,000 cps. As
we age, that band narrows considerably at the high end. The problem that
arises is even a low pitched whistle will not produce fundamental
frequencies near the very low end of the audible frequency range. Also,
frequency alone is not the only consideration. The sound pressure level
behind the frequency is also important. A low frequency whistle with a low
sound pressure level may not carry as far as a higher pitched whistle with
a higher sound pressure level.

It is necessary to find the acceptable medium. Producing the lower
frequencies with a whistle will require, of course a larger whistle which
will require more "lung power" to produce the sound pressure necessary to
carry the frequency the greater distance. And an instrument capable of
producing these lower frequencies would have to be so large as to make them
impractical for using in SAR. A perfect example is the Swiss Alpine horn
which is about 10 or 12 feet long, give or take a foot. These horns were
specifically designed for communicating in the Swiss Alps over long
distances.

The best method for testing these whistles scientifically would be with
sound equipment, even in the field. Human testing would be subjective at
best since all humans do not hear alike. All of our ears have different
capabilities due to age, possible ear damage, etc. Five tests in the same
conditions with five persons would most likely yield five sets of results.

To summarize, IMHO, if you are going to use whisltes, the lowest pitch
whistle that produces an acceptable sound pressure level, with the most
distinctive sound, should be used. One extra thought; the older the victim,
the lower the pitch of the whistle should be for most effectiveness,
especially in elderly victims. If you have a good baritone who really knows
how to use his voice in your unit, you may be inclined to use him. The
trained human voice is capable of producing freqs well below whistles with
adequate sound pressure levels.

Pete Bremy
West Milford, NJ"

===============================
I just watched an National Graphic program that said that the male lions roar, which is low frequency, can cary over 6 miles or even more (if I remember it correctly) that won't happen with a high pitched voice I'm sure.

Best Scouting wishes,

Bagheera

Low frequency sounds do indeed carry farther, but they're also a lot less directional. This means that, theoretically at least, rescuers might have a slightly more difficult time pinpointing your location. As a practical matter, I'm not sure this has any real relevance in the case of the Fox whistle, as even a 'low pitched' whistle is likely to be fairly high pitched. A small whistle simple wouldn't be capable of producing a very low-pitched sound. I wouldn't hesitate to carry it.

Hunting horns, bag-pipes, train whistles, car horns, sirens all usually have a low pitched component and many have a high pitched component. The low pitch is always heard the farthest and the high pitched is probably more distinguishable from the background.

Hi !

Chris mentionned in a post, some time ago, he has one of those australian aboriginal contraption (I remember the post, but not the name of that thing), used to send messages.
Seems to me it gives out some rather low frequencies...


Alain

Bullroarer.

Sounds like maybe police/fire/ems vehicles need to have new low frequency sirens then!

thanks !


Alain

australian aboriginal contraption = didgeridoo

>>I just watched an National Graphic program that said that the male lions roar, which is low frequency, can cary over 6 miles or even more (if I remember it correctly) that won't happen with a high pitched voice I'm sure.

As an aside, I believe that the lion on the MGM logo is not "roaring", it is "snarling" - a true lion's roar is much deeper, and the lion does it with its head down. Which makes for much better long-distance communication, but is not as photogenic <img src="images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Thanks Baheera,

I stand corrected. <img src="images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> That's why I keep on reading these posts, you never stop learning here.

After posting something indeed did cross my mind: 'primitive' tribes in Africa used to pass messages through tam tam's (not sure what they're called in English). Some sort of drum (like a small conga?) they place on the ground with legs like a stool that conduct the beats into the soil. And yes, the didgeridoo carries far too.

It makes sense. The problem is - I think - to construct a compact device that produces a low frequency noise with enough power to be usefull. That's probably why high-toned whistles are still so widespread. They're compact and loud.

I once blow a Storm whistle in a shop, which was incredibly loud, but not as high (nor as compact) as a referee's whistle.

Luca

Elephants also communicate with ultra low frequency sounds that travel for miles. Many of the sounds are too low for the human to detect.

Hence the big ears, I suppose?

[Change of Subject]

One of the main functions of the Elephants large ears is the keep cool (large surface area + Rich blood network + flapping motions). [/change of subject <img src="images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> ]

Actually, I beleive they pick up the vibrations through the ground. Hence the big feet! <img src="images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

my, my, my .........

Amazing what you can learn on this forum ................
<img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />



Alain

Those are low frequency compared to a Fox 40 whistle.

In Europe they have a two tone siren with a high and a low frequency.
However those vehicles do not necessarily need a siren that carries very far. They need one that stands out, is easy to identify and carries just far enough.
When I used to serve in an emergency team our vehicles siren was blown at about 10 atmospheres. I guess nobody can blow a Fox 40 at a pressure even close to that. So some loss due to the frequency might be affordable.

I'm not so sure the actual frequency matters that much. In the field, wind is often the biggest single factor with sound signals. Even with just a slight breeze your whistle will reach much farther downwind than vice-versa.

IME a Fox 40 is pretty good as far as a survival whistle. Every bit as loud as many supposedly better (read: more expensive) designs. Also, it's compact, lightweight and basically foolproof as long as you don't try to run it over with a Hummer or something to that effect.