#228173 - 07/21/11 11:15 PM
Re: Six Days Without Power
[Re: KenK]
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Geezer
Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
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I came across the same question somewhere, but regarding bleach used for laundry. The answer was the same as Pete's above, the dilution rendering it harmless.
Sue
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#228233 - 07/22/11 08:35 PM
Re: Six Days Without Power
[Re: KenK]
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Stranger
Registered: 12/08/06
Posts: 12
Loc: Austin, Tx
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I honestly don't think the swimming fouled the pool water much. Most of the nasty came from the bugs and vegitation blowing in. Like I said, each day we'd spend a fair about of time scouping out debris. The lifespan this time was about the same as a year or two back when my pump broke and I went without a pump for a while. Back then we stopped swimming until I got the new pump.
I don't think the pool water would have lasted much longer than a week without filtration, even with chlorination, the suspended solids load was beginning to stack up. As I said, it was probably cleaner than using lake water (for this area), and personally I wouldn't have hesitated to put it through a backpacking filter (have several) and drinking it, but not sure my wife and kids would have been willing to do that.
We had contacted several horse vets and they all strongly suggested not giving the horses pool water, saying that a horse's gut can be pretty sensitive and that it just wasn't worth taking a chance on if other sources of water could be made available. We didn't want to risk one or more of them colicing (sp?).
Anyway, Sunday was wonderful with flushing toilets and air conditioning. Life is good, and we learned some important lessons. One item to watch is whether you use stabilized chlorine. Stabilized chlorine has cyanuric acid in it: Link to Cyanuric Acid info I have yet to find any health risk gotchas listed anywhere concerning exposure (including drinking) but once I read that the only way to get rid of it was to drain water out and refill the pool, I started using only chlorine. I know the health hazards of pool chlorine, I haven't been able to find the health hazards (or lack thereof) for stabilized pool chlorine. Also, I keep my above ground pool covered with an opaque tarp except for when we swim. Cuts way down on amount of chlorine I have to use AND keeps a huge amount of crap from drifting down into the water. Just a thought. WB
_________________________
WolfBrother
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#228258 - 07/23/11 01:50 AM
Re: Six Days Without Power
[Re: WolfBrother]
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Geezer
Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
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WolfBrother, here is what the World Health Organization has to say about it: Melamine & Cyanuric Acid Does anyone know anything about silver-copper ion generators for disinfecting swimming pools, in place of chlorine? Sue
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#228297 - 07/23/11 09:13 AM
Re: Six Days Without Power
[Re: WolfBrother]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
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...but once I read that the only way to get rid of it was to drain water out and refill the pool, I started using only chlorine. According to the FDA, cyanuric acid by itself is basically non-toxic. It is used in some places to disinfect drinking water, too, so I wouldn't worry about it in a properly maintained pool. It is not metabolized by the body and passes out through the urine. Just don't drink that pool water along with food illegally spiked with high levels of melamine, like those bad batches of Chinese pet food and infant formula from a few years back. Combine the two and they precipitate into crystals in the kidneys and lead to kidney failure. Actually, the pool test kit for cyanuric acid does just that--contains melamine and you gauge the level of cyanuric acid by observing how turbid the water gets when they mix together. When I thought about it, by not using a stabilizer, isn't it going to be difficult to maintain the proper concentration of chlorine in your pool because UV from the sun decomposes the chlorine so quickly? It seems like you would have a safer, cheaper and more convenient to maintain pool if you use the cyanuric acid.
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#228382 - 07/24/11 11:47 PM
Re: Six Days Without Power
[Re: Arney]
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"Be Prepared"
Pooh-Bah
Registered: 06/26/04
Posts: 2210
Loc: NE Wisconsin
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When my kids were very young we had one of those small kiddie pools. In the hopes of keeping water clean longer I calculated how much Chlorox bleach to add to the water to get the PPM to the needed level, but didn't know to add cyanuric acid (called stabilizer at the pool stores). Every time I added chlorine it was gone by the end of the day. I repeated this day after day for a summer. I thought that must be what the pool owners did.
It was out of that frustration that I started reading more about pool water chemistry and then finally decided to get a "real" pool.
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#228385 - 07/25/11 12:53 AM
Re: Six Days Without Power
[Re: Paul810]
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Addict
Registered: 05/23/08
Posts: 483
Loc: Somerset UK
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A buddy of mine just converted his house over to solar power. So far, his most expensive electric bill has been $3, but most of the time they send him money. He's also planning on buying a plug-in automobile, that way he can just charge it off the house. I thought that was a great idea...he would be in better shape than most if gas prices go crazy or if there is a major power failure. Be aware that most such residential systems provide no protection whatsoever against power cuts. They use PV modules connected to the grid via a grid tie inverter, any surplus power produced is exported into the grid, and any demand in excess of solar production is imported from the grid. Such schemes can be viable financialy, and they benifit the enviroment by reducing fuel burnt in power plants. To protect against power cuts, you need an off grid battery charging system with a stand alone inverter, this is unlikely to pay for itself in terms of money invested versus power produced, but could well be justified as a disaster prep. Anyone who believes that a standard grid tied solar system protects against power cuts should try a very simple experiment. Turn off the main circuit breaker, thereby simulating a power cut. See what still works, allmost certainly nothing does. Any friend or relative who believes that their new grid tied solar system protects against power cuts, should be asked a simple question "how big is the battery" the answer is normally "what battery" I am not opposed to grid tied PV but it should be regarded as a money saving, enviroment protecting scheme and not as a disaster prep.
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#228597 - 07/26/11 04:21 PM
Re: Six Days Without Power
[Re: adam2]
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Newbie
Registered: 01/27/02
Posts: 35
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I am having trouble understanding your argument. Let us assume that a residential system uses enough photo-voltaic modules to generate as much power as is consumed on average (thereby creating a situation as you say, where excess power can be sold, or a power deficit can be filled by the grid). If I understand your argument correctly, you are saying that once grid-supplied power is cut, that "almost certainly nothing" in the house will work.
However, I don't understand why that would occur. The PV modules, in the presence of sunlight, are still generating power. Where does this energy go? This line of thinking conjurs up a couple of questions for me:
1. An alternative, stand-by form of power, such as a generator, can be substituted for grid power via a transfer switch. Why can't similar technology be used to switch the source of house power to the PV modules alone, isolating the grid?
2. Backup battery power is nice would be welcome in the event of a grid failure, especially at night. However, I don't understand why the inverter has to stand alone. Why can't a battery system be charged by the PV modules?
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#228604 - 07/26/11 06:25 PM
Re: Six Days Without Power
[Re: GettingThere]
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Veteran
Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 1428
Loc: NJ, USA
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Grid tie inverters are designed to shut down in the event of a power failure. It's a protection feature that both prevents the power you generate from keeping the grid hot while technicians are working on it and prevents too much power draw from your system if the grid suddenly dies.
Therefore, in order to run directly off the solar panels, you either need a separate inverter setup designed to supply back-up power separate from the grid or a grid-tie inverter designed with backup power in mind. This is an added expense.
In my buddies case, he already had a transfer panel setup for a generator, which meant, basically, the only things he needed were a charge controller, a battery rack with disconnect, and an inverter that could tie into said transfer panel. Then he could run a solar charged battery back-up just like one would run a back-up home generator. Now, you could technically run directly off the panels with just an inverter, but it's not a stable power source.
In essence, it's two systems on one set of solar panels. The grid based system and the back-up system.
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#228605 - 07/26/11 06:50 PM
Re: Six Days Without Power
[Re: KenK]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 2997
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Most grid tie systems have no storage capability either, its a cost save, batteries and charge controllers and such are expensive.
Power usually goes out in a storm when there is a lack of sun.
I was looking at solar for a cabin on the farm and was researching and on differnet forums and some forums are very pro grid tie and anti sotrage, better to share the excess produced energy with others via the grid and not have bateries which will eventually need disposed/recycled and use resources to manufactur. They couldn't get past the fact that I wanted storage based rather then having to cut miles of trees down to run electric lines to connect to a rural grid which is down more than up in the winter. I don't hang out on that forum much anymore.
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