Johnbaker:

Here in Wisconsin, we are not allowed to carry any handgun bigger than a .22 in the woods during small game, shotgun, black powder, and bow hunting season, large caliber handguns are allowed only during deer & bear gun hunting season and it has to conform to Wisconsin regulations for hunting handguns.

Bountyhunter

Brian:

I agree with you and would not feel comfortable shooting any large or small game with a handgun at distances longer than I would launch an arrow at said game unless I was really desperate or too injured to get closer.

I don't practice as much as you and never have, but I know my limitations and try to stay within them. I have shot a long barrelled Ruger .44 magnum at 100 yard targets from a bench with a sand bag rest and all the time in the world and I was unable to achieve a decent grouping and even missed the hundred yard target occasionally.

Bountyhunter

I dont always say things clearly and sometimes I talk a lot and say a litte but it sounds like Bounty understood my point. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

My point in the last post was simply to make it clear to inexperienced shooters that taking down game at 100yards (or even 50yards) with a non-scoped handgun is something that takes (1) a high quality purpose driven firearm. (2) certain physical attributes and (3) tons and tons of practice. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Bounty,

Thanks for making my day. Your description of Wisconsin's laws re hunting and handguns makes me glad I need only deal with handgun hunting laws in western states. Generally they're pretty good. Surprisingly even the PRK (Kalifornia) has fairly loose and sensible laws re hunting with handguns.


Brian,

I think we will need to agree to disagree on hunting with handguns. I think you are making it sound harder than it really is. As I previously indicated, hunting requires accurate handguns with sufficient power for the game. Carefully directed training and practice are required to be proficient in shooting the requisite handgun. However, these things are very much achievable by a motivated and diligent shooter.

Hunting is challenging. That is one reason why we enjoy it. Doing it with a handgun magnifies not only the challenge, but also the preparation, skill, and satisfaction entailed in doing it well. It is definitely worthwhile to develop the ability to do it well.

John

Is a pistol sized crossbow worth investigating? What draw weight?

Most of the pistol crossbows I have seen fall into either the 'junk' or the 'toy' categories.

This one is a little better quality and might be fun at the range. At $70 for this pistol model, you are 1/3 of the way to the price of a decent starter crossbow. I'd wait.

http://budk.com/Outdoor-Sports/150lb-Wood-Crossbow?

The high powered bow and according arrows may be less suited for the natives. An elephant isn´t easily carried home and cooked before the meat spoils or scavengers claim their part.


Wouldn´t that much draw weight put a question mark to the ability to reuse the arrows? A deer can´t offer substantial resistance to an arrow shot from such a bow. Retrieving the arrow would be a long search whether you hit or not - maybe with the exception of burying the arrow in a nearby tree.

It's not the draw weight, it's the kinetic energy the arrow possesses. An 80lb pistol crossbow with a 6 in stroke has about the same energy (~15 ft*lbs) as my Wifes 22 lb recurve (~13 ft*lbs). This is adaquate for small game, but underpowered for anything "biggerthen a breadbox". look up "Easton's Kinetic Energy Recommendation Chart" for more details.

Having lots and lots of experience with busted arrows, these are my observations on arrow survival.
1) Retrieving a lost arrow depends on large swaths of bright color. I build my arrows with an 8 in plain white wrap with 2 red hen feathers, and a white cock feather and nock. I've yet to lose one which is better then I can say for all my previous designs. Expect it to skitter along open ground for > 100 yards after a miss.
2) In the even of a handy tree; you're not getting it out without a saw. Hunting crossbows, which are most of what's currently produced, start at about 65 ft*lbs of energy. I need a prybar and a heavy rock to get my arrows out with only 32 ft*lbs of energy (target bow). Expect to leave the point behind a lot if you succed in trying to pull it out instead of cutting it out.
3) The most common mode of failure is when the arrow is shot into a hard object. The glue holding insert or point shatters, and the insert or point is rammed back into the shaft. A mild hit will just split the shaft right behind the point. A more severe hit (rocks or concrete) mushrooms an aluminum shaft or spinters a carbon shaft. Wood arrows just shatter. The strongest are carbons with the insert epoxied in place with the heavyweight stuff (not JB Weld).
4) The arrow/bolt strikes something at an angle. Aluminum shafts will buckle or bend right behind the insert. Carbon and wood will snap off.

In short, don't count on being able to reuse a crossbow bolt indefinitely. If you're looking far an "indestructible projectile". Get a carbon arrow, epoxy the insert in, glue the nock in (tends to go flying when shooting a hard object), and sleeve the front 2" of the shaft with a section of aluminum arrow. Also epoxied in place. Keep your kinetic energy down. I have two built like this and capped with large diameter rubber blunts and they've survived about 20 shots each into wood.