While the Casey Anthony trial has been getting most of the airtime recently, this horrific story just took place in my backyard: NY Times: Leiby Kletzky Murder .

Quick summary: Nine year old boy begs parents for permission to walk home the few blocks from summer day camp alone. Parents allow it, but boy never arrives at home. Boy's dismembered body is found three days later partially in a dumpster, and partially in the freezer of the man arrested for the crime.

This crime is, quite obviously, a parent's worst nightmare, and has provoked a lot of discussion and soul searching amongst parents in my area.

So the question is, how do you teach your kids to interact with the people they meet in the world? I'm generally a fan of Free Range Parenting, and I hate the term "Stranger Danger," as many of my best experiences in life have been while travelling and interacting with strangers. But I want to keep my kids safe.

I know that crimes like this are extremely rare, but I also feel the need to do something to firm up my parenting philosophy. How do you raise well adjusted, sociable kids, while also ensuring that they have the skills necessary to avoid a dangerous situation if need be?

What do some of the parents out on ETS think?

The first lesson is unfortunately that while most people would never harm a child, some people mean them harm. I'm teaching my children to be aware of their surroundings, to seek help if they need it from a mother with children, or uniformed police and firefighters. I'm teaching them to not go anywhere, ever, with adults we haven't approved, to not run out on their siblings, run if they can, and fight with everything they have if running isn't an option.

It's a work in progress.

Its hard enough to be self aware as a adult towards danger, it's rare to see such behavior in pre-teens short of anxiety to do something.

There is only so much a parent can do instructing a child on a route to take home from a bus, plus possible courses of action for problems. From what I've heard, it was the first time the boy walked home alone. Horrible. Horrible.

I suppose the best chance is that you reinforce, constantly, never walk away with an adult unless they are uniformed police. Best to talk to an adult in a place of business, than on the street. Know parents phone numbers. Have an ID on them, my stay at home wife made 'business cards' on our computer with her name as "XXXX & XXXX's mom" to hand out to our kids friends parents. It has an up to date picture of DS & DD, plus our contact info.

Lastly, we need to allow our kids to grow and gain independence. However, not at the complete absence of observation if possible.

DW and I believe our job as parents is to prepare our children for a life without us. In today's overly protective society this makes us pretty radical, even in our homeschooling group. We've been a long-time follower of the free range kid ideology.

It hard to find the right balance. We want our daughters to be confident enough in themselves to not be afraid to speak to strangers yet aware enough to keep an eye out for dangers. Their basic mantra if they feel uncomfortable with someone or something is:
1. Stop
2. Get Away (by ANY means necessary)
3. Tell Someone (us, a policeman, another one of the moms in the group)

I make it a point to talk to strangers in the presence of my kids so they can see that doing so isn't a bad thing, that there's nothing wrong with chatting with the person waiting in line with you, at the neighborhood pool, dangling upsidedown from a bridge, etc... When we go out to places the DDs are responsible for ordering their own food and dealing with shopkeepers/ticket venders/performers or whoever else an adult would normally deal with.

We let them walk the two blocks to their friend's house without adults (which drives their friend's mom nuts) and they don't have to be in the same asile as us (as long as they are behaving!) at the grocery store (though we don't let them get farther away than the next asile). On our nightly walks they are usually a block or more ahead of me.

It's really not easy. There are times when I have to repeat to myself "it's okay, they'll be safe" because the odds are they will be by a very very long shot. I feel the large benefits outweigh these risks.

-Blast

Not a parent, but my 2 cents anyway.

I think Blast has it right - show that you can interact with strangers, but there's "typical" stranger small talk. Start that early, but have "don't talk to strangers" type rules until the kid's brain starts to really get some critical thinking skills - 8 or 9? I dunno, I'm not a pediatrician.

As far as your kids' liberties, well as a kid we had rules about how far to stray. I grew up on a cul d'sac so it was pretty easy, and low traffic. But my grandmother's house was in east LA (picture the pasty white kid with his pasty white brother in a crowd of nicely-tanned kids). There were boundaries there too. Within those boundaries, play was OK. So we'd play with the other kids, and get to meet their parents that way. Allowed us to start learning "stranger" meeting with a lot less risk. After all, almost all of the media reports, it's a non-parent doing these things. Going to various parks and talking to other kids help too. Obviously parents of classmates. I think it's imperative that kids learn to talk to adults.

Another thing that probably helped, looking back, is my parents' social interactions. Monthly bunco for mom, weekly band practice for my dad. So I grew up around adults. Plus my best friend's family usually was over (or we were there) at least once monthly.

I can't really recall ever having a sit down with my parents on "not talking to strangers." Even at the Coliseum in LA (where the '84 Olympics were), it was just unspoken that we'd stay close. Later, in my pre-teens and early teens, going to Chinatown or Olvera Street with family there wasn't a lot of verbal instruction. However, the few times something was suspcious, mom made a deal out of it (body language more than anything, but easy enough to catch the signals at that age). Learned a lot about inner-city situational awareness from that.

Exactly.



I've also been teaching my daughters to not ditch their siblings if things go wrong.



Teaching children "Stranger Danger" is counterproductive at best. They learn it's bad to talk to strangers, and then immediately they see their parents doing what they've been teaching the kids to not do. This leads to a loss of credibility, if nothing else.



We do this too.

I don't have the patience it takes to be a parent. And I think many/most parents are idiots, from observation and results.

Our society is hammered with the concept of "keep them safe", to the point of insanity. The world is not a safe place, it never will be, and the world is not going to bow to the parents who want to make it safe just because they're too lazy to do their job. And all the laws in the world aren't going to change that.

Parents want their kids to do as they're told, with no back-chat, but if a stranger approaches/entices them, they want them to think for themselves and start yelling. These are two entirely different behaviors, and they want the kids to know when and where to change their behavior without any training. If something happens, they blame the kid for not reacting correctly. How crazy is that?

Leiby Kletzky stood in front of a video camera and WAITED for the killer to come back! How's THAT for doing as you're told?

Parents always want to do the kid's thinking for them, often well into the teenage years (sometimes even into adulthood!). Then a kid hits 18 and they are in free-fall with no direction.

Parents don't encourage kids to think things out. Everything is knee-jerk, quick-fix, instant-result thinking.

Parents don't want their kids to make mistakes. How else are they going to learn cause-and-effect? Let them make their mistakes -- they'll learn more and faster than from you just telling them.

And I don't mean that parents should let their kids run wild. KIDS NEED TO BE TAUGHT. They need to be taught behavior that will mesh with the rest of society, but they also need to learn how not to put themselves in danger. They need to learn that there are repercussions to behavior, both good and bad. They need to learn that decision-making is an important part of life, and bad decisions tend to have bad outcomes. It's called Real Life.

But the number of children who have some manners and who have been actually taught to think are very few and far between. How could it be different when they were raised by idiots? But the good ones certainly stand out like gold coins when you run across them!

I ran across this just the other day: Permissive Parents: Curb Your Brats

Sue

Body language is understood across cultural lines. If you feel that something isn't right, then chances are something isn't right. Look around and see what's wrong and avoid it. Listen to that little voice.

Teach your kids to be aware of what is going on around them. Just showing that you are aware of your surroundings lessens threats.

And that Stranger Danger stuff is mainly crap. More children are hurt/abused/molested/killed by people they know already than by strangers.

What a terrible, horrible story. This must be a terrible shock for the community which apparently has a low crime rate.

Things seem to have changed or at least the perception of the danger from murdering paedophiles (they always seem to have been around even before industrialisation), since I was a young child in the mid 1970s, where the main danger at the time was the wider spread introduction of motor cars running over children. I must have been about 7 when the Green Cross Code Man (who later went on to become Darth Vader and 2IC for the Empire) turned up at the local primary School to instruct us of the dangers. I still walked back to and from the school the mile or so on my own (from about 7 years old) or with some friends who lived nearby.

Thinking back to my childhood, I used to go everywhere around town on a bicycle. Then I built a go-kart I used to drive all over town, until the police put the kabash on that. Finally, I ended up with a little Honda mini-motorcycle, that was street legal if you went for the moped test at 15 or so.

The point of all that is, I don't think my parents could have kept an eye on me if they wanted to. They taught me things, trusted that I would follow them, and hoped I would stay out of trouble. When I occasionally screwed up, the threat of, "just wait until your father gets home" was enough to set me straight.

Otherwise, I never had any real problems with strangers. If anything, most were helpful. I can remember one little old lady driving me over to the parts store so I could get a new sparkplug for one of my motorized toys, so I could get home by supper. Usually I liked to get home before my father to avoid him asking, "so, where were you today?", which he would do like clockwork; but supper time was generally when I had to check in, then I could go out again until the street lights came on if my homework was done.

Fact is, from time to time, bad things do happen to good people. Thankfully, it's relatively rare, but there is always a risk in anything you do. Sometimes one just has to live their life and hope they're properly prepared and have the right amount of luck on their side.

Just a couple of ideas to consider, child or even an adult:

1. Stay in a public place in sight of people. DO NOT go off with a stranger no matter how nice, interesting, helpful or whatever they say. Just say no. OK to talk to them, but don't go with them.

2. In an urban setting, go into a busy store and ask the employees for help. If they can't or will not help, ask a customer in sight and hearing of other customers. Observe rule 1; don't go off alone with a stranger.

3. It is OK to call the police/fire department/EMS, or to have someone call them for you. They need to understand that they will not be arrested or get into trouble. I don't think there is a LEO, firefighter, or EMT who would get angry at a lost child who needed their help to get home safely. It is OK to go with the police/firefighters/EMT IF they are in uniform and in a marked vehicle. This is the only exception to rule 1. No "undercover" police need apply.

Hope these ideas might be helpful. They are not original to me. Mom and Dad taught me them in the 1950s.

my background is with adolescents (14 -17 year high school students) older than those in the OP's discussion...but the problem persists with them also... situational awareness education is not included as a measurable academic standard, and should be...

I see three common manifestations...peripheral vision blocking "hoodies", the ever popular music ear phones (ear bud) and the current "texting" phenomenon... they become self absorbed, and oblivious to personal danger ...we had several near accidents in the parking lot at school dismissal... inattention by both drivers and walking students

I included the OODA loop as part of my decision making curriculum

Still shaking from the horrible story, but here is my idea of "agreeing" to something like this. I would tell the kid (OK) but will (a) ask him to put a whistle in his pocket and (b) I will remotely accompany him . I would walk on the other side of the street some 30 yards behind him.

May not be ideal and maybe seen as "overly protective" but for a 9 year oild, and first time, that is how I do it.

That is what I did for example when my then-14-yo son asked to do some electrical wiring. I let him do it while I was watching. Now he does it alone.

Sometimes my younger son (who is rather aggressive and loves driving but smaller in size) asks to go somewhere. I OK that, but ask him to take his older brother, who is less aggressive, but taller. It provides the younger one some protection, while it exposes the older son to some life realities.

Only a parent can be the judge of their childs maturity level. I have seen teens who are oblivious to their surroundings, and I have also seen 9 and 10 year olds who are surprisingly astute.

My son is now a military policeman and daughter is a pre-med student. They are both very aware of their surroundings. We started early and discussed these issues with them eg: What would you do if a stranger said "Your mother is in trouble and she asked me to bring you there". Or what would you do if a stranger tried to touch you? Are there some places you should not go alone? etc. You don't have to go into the grisly tales of the abductions, as 'they might try to take you' will probably be sufficient motivation.

We still discuss current events and situations with the college age daughter, but the son carries a rifle and a pistol, an asp and mace with him at work and faces different kinds of danger. The daughter is not paranoid, but very aware and always keeps her car door locked and the tank full, and has a cell phone, mace (in hand), and a whistle with her when walking the campus.

When my kids were younger, they took part in a Jui Jitsu class that had a really good self-defence component built into it.

They did do standard Jui Jitsu curriculum & played games, but also covered things like:

• Defence techniques to avoid being carried away; first running away, but then things like dropping to the ground 'turtle-back' & kicking, using legs to push off & avoid getting forced in a car, 'computer' stuns, etc. When doing this they were taught to yell "This is not my parent" to help any bystanders realize this isn't just a kid throwing a tantrum.
• Review of common lures used by predators; this included an oft repeated "adults don't ask kids for help, adults ask adults for help."
• Who to ask help from; safe strangers.
• How to call 911.
• To flood a sink if trapped in an apartment bathroom.

Those are some of the things that stick out in my memory at least.

Eons ago, a LEO gave a talk at my grade school about strangers. He said the most common way to get a kid to go with you is to use a puppy or kitten as bait.

They don't even need to have one with them, they ask if the kid wants one. He's got too many, he's going to take it to the pound where it will be put to sleep, they're really cute, take it home and see if your mom will let you keep it, etc.

And I wouldn't be surprised if it's still the path of least resistance. Give your kids examples of how a stranger might approach them. Just like thinking about how you would get out of different survival situations, get your kids to think.

And make them understand that if someone does grab them, to hit, kick and bite as hard as they can; don't be afraid to hurt a kidnapper! Girls, esp, used to be encouraged to be 'ladylike'. Even now, many women really hesitate to fight back because of that indoctrination. Stupid, isn't it?

Sue

"hit, kick and bite as hard as they can", In my family, that IS ladylike!