Widget,

The generally accepted stages of hypothermia (this part copied from "Medicine for Mountaineering" by the Mountaineers (highlights are mine):

98 - 95F Sensation of chilliness, skin numbness, MINOR IMPAIRMENT OF MUSCULAR PERFORMANCE, especially of the hands.

95 - 93F MORE OBVIOUS MUSCLE INCOORDINATION and weakness, slow stumbling pace, mild confusion and apathy.

93 - 90F GROSS MUSCULAR INCOORDINATION with frequent stumbling and falling and inability to use hands, mental sluggishness with slow thought and speech, retrograde amnesia.

90 - 86F Cessation of shivering, severe muscularincoordination with STIFFNESS AND INABILITY TO WALK OR STAND, incoherence, confusion, irrationality.

At any point in this, on steep terrain, one might find that continuing on is unsafe. The choice may not have been just to drive on. The mind is a very powerful thing, but it cannot overpower hypothermia. In fact, one of the early signs is the person making poor decisions.

The response to hypothermia is not the same for everyone. A complicating factor like mountain sickness or even a cold could have contributed to one person succumbing first. Body conditioning, shortage of food or (one of the most common problems especially among light and fast mountaineers) dehydration and many other things can influence the succeptability to hypothermia. Sweating, clothing and clothing use are also important factors. It is very common for one member of a party to become hypothermic while others in the same group do not.

I will not speculate if or why the other members of his party did not intervene sooner. They might have but were left no option except to do what they did or the person may have hid the early stages from them. With what we know it would again be speculation. What choices they made and why they made them I don't know and may never know. This is not the first (or unfortunately the last) time that the choices made led to the death of a climber. Would I have made the same choices, I don't know, I was not there. Would different choices (once the situation took hold) have made for a different outcome, we will never know. Can we evaluate the situation and think about what we would do -- ONLY if we know the true situation. Or we can look at several possibilities and how we would react to them.

I was talking about mountaineering when I discussed light and fast. Although my comments would also hold for trail hiking, they are double for mountaineering. I totally agree with you that what you pack for weather is a compromise. A good climber will be VERY cautious about weight. It is just that I see too many people in the hills that, IN MY OPINION (for whatever that is worth to others have chosen poorly. Many of these people I have seen as I assist them out of the mountains. I will say that I see fewer super light and fast advocates among the rescue community than outside it.

Again, my comments are not directed at this incident.

Respectfully,

Jerry

bacpacjac

the so-called "alpine style" system of climbing is based on the idea that climbers are in great shape, very skilled, and can keep moving up their chosen route on the mountain. In essence, the climbers are wagering that they have the "edge" on the mountain ... when it comes to strength, skill, and judgment. The system does indeed work very well IF the bet pays off. The climbers move quickly over the terrain, and therefore don't expend tons of extra energy carrying gear they don't really need. Body heat is largely generated by the fact that you are moving relatively continuously.

The whole thing can go horribly wrong if conditions change (a storm comes in fast), you misjudge your capabilities (e.g. have a bad reaction to high altitude sickness), or other factors undermine your physical performance (e.g. sickness or unexpected hypothermia). Once the team gets into a bind, everyone has got a serious problem - because no-one is equipped for the dangerous conditions of a bad storm, howling winds, and icy temperatures. No doubt the climbing companions on this trip reasoned that the best overall approach was to try to get off the mountain quickly and seek help for their friend. But it's a tough situation and the outcome can be tragic ... as it appears to be in this case.

During the days that I climbed I always tried to pick routes on mountains where i would have a good edge i.e. I was stronger than the obstacles in my path. When that judgment was good, I had great days. When that judgment was bad, I paid for it. Nobody gets it right all the time.

Just my $0.02

Pete #2

Thanks Pete. I appreciate the insight. I'm not trying to be critical. I can only imagine the things that go on on a mountain top. It's a good reminder though that even experienced prepared people can end up in life-threatening situtation!

Good points guys.

Perhaps the incapacitation was due to hypothermia plus another factor like altitude illness or hypoglycemia. Just as widget describes, the altitude factor can whack you seemingly out of nowhere. I recall getting really whacked at only 8,000'... then two days later hiked up to 12,800' like I had wings on my feet.

I'm not sure I ever felt worse than when I had altitude illness. If in that condition I had to climb onward, I don't know that I could have done it. I didn't even feel like I could make it across the campsite.

The most danger of packing inadequate items can easily not come from experience but from other influences such as magazine articles, TV shows, even fictional movies can influence a persons taste or preparations.
While I am now old and aware of each pound I have to carry in my pack, I was not always that way. I still am not one to cut off my toothbrush handle to save a tenth of an ounce. I can gain knowledge from some of the fast/light hikers but I have to take care to apply my experience in a careful thought process that helps me make wise decisions on gear and what to carry.
Example: a few years ago I want on a backpacking trip and had to carry all my own stove, tent, etc. The tent I chose is one that was very popular with the ounce counters, I won't name it's maker but it was basically a tarp with some netting and a floor. I set up the tent just before it started to rain and layed inside to keep dry, late afternoon. I kept feeling colder and colder and finally decided I needed to get up and do something to warm myself. What I discovered is that I was laying in a puddle of water in the floor of the tent and my sleeping bag that I had been using as a pillow in it's stuff sack had also gotten soaked. I looked at the cause of this inconvenience and discovered that the design of this particular tent would allow, even promote the water to flow in if the rain came from a certain direction. Something that is hard to control since it started raining after the tent was set up. Design compromise was to save weight some features were not what they should have been.
I have not used that tent since and never will again. Saving a pound is not worth the potential serious consequences.

All this had little relative value to the incident on Ranier but the point is sadly we often make decisions based on input from sources outside our own experience and should take care to apply our own knowledge and the knowledge of others and make wise choices of gear to carry and not just take what someone else recommended. If a popular method for climbing a route was to carry a bivy bag and no real insulation does not mean it will work 100% of the time for every climber. Metabolism varies as will conditions. I would not consider just a bivy and my clothing for a high altitude alpine climb, based on my times on a big mountain and what I know I need to stay warm.

The two who left to get help were apparently husband and wife, and they probably slept together, giving them an edge.

Well-equipped and experienced must mean all kinds of things. It simply puzzles me why these supposedly equipped and experienced people keep dying.

I have absolutely NO experience or interest in mountaineering. And I really don't care if the people who do, live or die. How's that for callous and cynical? They make their own decisions and sometimes their judgment appears to be rather poor. If they die, they die.

What I DO object to is their screaming for help when their poorly thought-out plans go awry. Then they want other people to risk their lives to save them. Sure, there are people who are willing to run out in a blizzard to find the victim. And some of the saviors become victims.

As far as I'm concerned, the bottom line is this: If you want to put yourself in danger, go for it -- just don't try to take other people down with you. If you die on the mountain, expect to stay on the mountain.

Sue

Don't fret, Susan. It's basically climbers helping other climbers, whether as paid staff(park rangers) or volunteers (I was both). I am pretty sure that a good many of us, should we chance to expire in the hills, would be content to remain there.

Even doing SAR, which does involve some danger occasionally, you have better chances of dying in an automobile accident.

Lolz! Years ago I rope soloed a borderline A4 rock route. It was a full on spookfest and a major milestone for me. Then on the drive home I was almost T-boned by a guy who ran a stopsign. Closest call I had on the entire trip.