Self-inflating PFDs look like they'd be very comfortable for fishing. How do they work? Do you need a canister of compressed air to inflate them? Do you pull a ripcord? Do they activate when they are submerged?
Next question: How well do they work?

Many different flavors, the Mustang versions I have looked at have a CO2 canister for self-inflation. They can be designed to self-inflate on immersion or use a manual inflation cord. They also can be inflated by blowing into a tube if the self-inflation mechanism fails. They also sell a refirb kit to replace the inflation mechanism if used.

Thanks Cellar. I usually wear a regular jacket but these look interesting. I like the old-style because if they're on, they're ready. I had an accident on the water last year and would surely have drowned if it weren't for my PFD.

I guess the simple question with probably a thousand answers is "How dependable are they?"

Self-inflating PFDs are very good, and getting better. But like all manmade mechanical things, they can fail. They can fail to inflate or the inflation bladders can leak.

If you rely on a PFD that you have to manually blow up, then it is not much use if you go in the drink because you have been rendered unconscious, physically disabled [heart attack, stroke, hypothermia, whatever], or mentally / emotionally disabled [panic, dementia, too young to understand, whatever].

Chunks of closed-cell floatation material in a PFD float all the time, every time, regardless of your condition.

i'll go with dweste on this.up in canoe country the water is very cold even in summer,in spring it's like ice water.if you go in you could do the reflex gulp and go under.the self inflates seem to be for duck hunters in warmer parts of the country who don't want a PFD to interfere with their gun handling.the only example i have read of at bwca.com involved a tip over and the guy with the co2 PFD could not get his to work.luck was with him as they made it to shore holding onto the canoe,the other guy had a real PFD.the co2 guy tried to inflate his on shore later on and it worked...
my "real" PFD is my avatar and you can see the pockets are filled with a ditch kit.

Thanks guys! I've also got a regular PFD on when I'm on the water. (Might upgrade to a fishing version with pockets. Nice set-up Canoedogs!) I prefer the always ready nature of a traditional vest.

I was thinking that the self inflatables might be good for my fishing group, who are prone to bringing them but not using them. We stick close to shore and fish in very calm and quiet area so they think they're safe. My accident last year was on big water and involved tubing not fishing but they all saw how nearly impossible it was for me to swim or get back in the boat.

Its all a matter of your specific use. It was mentioned that the inflatable PFDs would be no good if you were knocked unconscious and fell in the water. In such circumstances, only a Type I PDF would help you as it is the only one designed to turn over an unconscious user. These are what most people know as offshore PFDs and they are big and bulky. The problem is that most people simply are not going to wear something like this for moderate recreational use. Thus, most people do not wear one at all when it is a good idea to do so because they don't like the look or the bulk.

Enter the new low-profile, self-inflating and suspender-type PFDs. No doubt these are not as efficient or maybe even as reliable as a Type I or Type II PFD. But, people are more likely to wear them and the PFD you are wearing is 100 times better than the PFD sitting in the boat while you are treading water.

YMMV.

An additional consideration if you are operating on big water, at high speed, or near rocks, etc.: A nice layer of thick, bouyant, closed cell foam also provides you with some degree of impact protection.

Hit something hard with a traditional vest and the foam provides you with some protection. Hit something hard with an inflatable, and you may rupture the bladder.

That said, they are MUCH more comfortable, and I use both regularly, depending on where I am going, what kind of vessel I'm on, and what the conditions are.

Thanks guys!! Lots of info to digest, and pros and cons to weigh.

Take a look at:

http://www.boatsafe.com/nauticalknowhow/pfdbasics.htm
http://www.pfdma.org/choosing/types.aspx

If there is a chance I might get knocked out, I would go with a Type I. If the goal is to encourage people to wear them, and you aren't doing anything risky (relatively calm waters, no rocks near the surface, not too cold), then self-inflating (or even manually triggered) PFDs will probably work well.

Disclaimer: I'm not an avid outdoorsman, so your mileage may vary.

Da Bing

I just received an email from a company I have done business with before that is apparently running a sale on some manual inflation PFDs. Normal disclaimers apply, I have no interest in this company, and there are likely other companies out there with better prices. I submit this simply as a reference to what is out there.

Landfall Navigation Inflatible PFDs

What happens after you inflate them the first time? Do you disconnect the canister, deflate the vest, and then attach another canister for the next use?

Sue

Basically yes -- Hydrostatic Inflator Re-arm Kit

Another consideration, which is probably not an issue for canoes, is a bulky PFD can hamper movement when evacuating. You may notice that in planes, all PFD are inflatable so that you are able to exit the confines of the cabin and then inflate. Also an inflated PFD (or a non-inflating type) could be a hindrance if you wanted to move through water, in a confined area (people have drowned because the buoyancy traps them against a flooded roof).

Probably not relevant to your requirements, but maybe an issue for someone ?

Thanks gang! The decision is as clear a mud now.

Personally, I find the decision easy, I use both (or more types as the case might might require). For everyday wear in a canoe, especially here in Florida, I wear a self inflating suspender type. It actually would exceed the Type I standards execpt that it is an inflatable. If the weather is rough or I am crossing big water, particularly if there are power boats around, I put on a vest designed for canoe or kayak (easy to paddle in - don't try it in a type I). The self inflating is the one I would pick for MY canoe use if I could only have one.

If I am in an enclosed space (aircraft, closed small boat, etc.) I use a manual inflateable. I have one for most things (a suspender type) and one for flying over water (a vest type with pockets for my critical survival supplies).

I also have and use a Mustang Float Coat with the diaper for cold water (which I sometimes canoe in during cold, wet weather), and a flotation suit for work on deck in cold climates.

Respectfully,

Jerry

Jerry, if you could only choose 1 PFD for your children or loved ones, which would it be and why?

I think what Jerry is saying is there is no such thing as "the one" that you should choose and asking him to choose just one is to miss the point he is trying to make.

You need to understand the environment that you will be using the PFD and choose a PFD best suited to that environment.

I get what you're saying Jerry. DWeste, I take your point as well.

When my family is on the water we're usually paddling. My concern for personal use, and use by DS, is that the inflatable ones, while they do appear to be more comfortable, leave more room for error. I want my not-quite a swimmer 8 year-old in a jacket with a butt strap, which will roll him over and hold his head up. I would also worry about malfunction, especially if I tested and refilled it myself. (I have very bad techno-karma!)

Likewise, I can see big benefits in them in some situations, like the floatation issue Aussie points out. I'm also more likely to get my fishing mates to wear one they hardly notice than the standard bulky ones they usually use as seat cushions. "We only fish 200 meters from shore and we paddle the niine-nine. What could happen?"

I like simple old school in most things. The new jacket I buy tomorrow is going to be a good old Canoedogs-style one. Not inflatable but hopefully cut well enough to allow for comfortable paddling, with some pockets for a little gear. I may upgrade though. Jerry's convinced me that there's a time and a place for everything.

Let me try again. I cannot afford more than one PFD. I suspect that many are in a similar "boat." Assuming at least for the purpose of argument this is true, which one PFD would Jerry recommend?

I'm a little suspicious of automatic devices.

I've seen people try to swim with a life jacket on in ideal conditions. Even tried it a few times. Given a little wind and a little current that life jacket makes you pretty much unable to do more than go along with the flow. Even a short swim against these forces is exhausting.

There are also those rare cases when life jacket inflating on its own might be a catastrophe. I've not researched all the available literature but clearly remember several non-fiction accounts of people on yachts experiencing trouble when the boat turned turtle and they had to swim down and out to reach free air. In one case the sailor wasted valuable time and energy trying to swim out with an inflated life jacket on and was forced to resurface in the overturned hull and remove the jacket. In another case the jacket inflated after they cleared the hatchway and it got tangled. The sailor lived because he was able to remove it.

Yes, I know, this is right up there with people not wearing a seat belt so they don't get trapped in a burning car. A rare situation that sounds more plausible than it really is.

Except I'm not advocating not wearing a life jacket. Fact being that the vast majority of the time it is going to do you more good than harm. What I'm asking for is a life jacket that has a mechanism for disabling the automatic inflation, an oral inflation tube, and some way of deflating a jacket quickly.

When flying in a Gov't chartered helicopter, we were required to don a PFD that was to be triggered manually, once you were clear of the cabin. In addition to the trigger, there was an oral inflation tube. There was no "automatic" inflation device and the uninflated vest was definitely low profile.

I'm in that boat too Dweste! I'm still undecided about them for my family but I can't afford an inflatable one right now anyway. (I picked up a new standard one for myself this morning. Nothing fancy. Fluid Deluxe PFD only mine's yellow. $59.99 CDN regular, on sale for $25.00, vs $179 for the cheapest inflatable they had. I attached a yellow Fox 40 Sharx whistle.)

DS uses this Mustang one. He may need to upgrade soon. He just hit 50 pounds but he's a thin little guy so the next size up is still a little too loose for him.

I am interested in inflatables though, and am going to try to convince my fishing group to get them.

I'm sure automatic inflation systems have their place, but I'll always go with a manual system. I've been through Naval Aviation swim qualifications as part of my job requirement. First they wear you out demonstrating swimming skills including breast stroke, treading water and drown proofing in full flight gear (including survival vest), and then you get to use the oral inflation tube (when you're already out of breath) to inflate the vest (the first vest they give you has a depleted CO2 cartridge) -- just a little air in the vest gives you positive buoyancy. I'm familiar with manual inflation systems and feel comfortable with that system.

I've only ever worn a manual system. To the best of my knowledge, in Naval aviation the auto systems are only worn by pilots in ejection seat aircraft; they will be free of the aircraft and don't need to worry about being inside a tube when the system auto inflates. They may also be unconscious when they hit the water so an auto-inflation system is recommended. I don't sit on an ejection seat, I would be in a blue-water ditching situation so manual is the only way to go for me.

The vest I'm looking at right now is a Switlik Modular Aircrew Vest. The Switlik Helicopter Crew Vest was my choice until Swtlik came out with the modular version. I've worn the Helicopter Crew Vest and found that after a bit I forgot it was there.
(Note: DR's Essentials™ Overwate Aviator Survival Vest is based on the two Switlik vests mentioned.)

For a river application I'd go with a non-inflatable. There's just too much junk (trees, rocks et al) in a river that could deflate an air bladder.

My recommendation after you make your choice of vests/suspenders, auto/manual is to get in a swimming pool and use it. It's useless if you don't put it on right or for some reason can't get it inflated. Personally, I'd do like the Navy does in that swim qual and force yourself to inflate manually with the oral inflation tube. Doing that for the first time in rough water could be a life altering experience. If you're breathing hard it's not easy in calm water.

Personal opinion.

BTW, flotation vests or suspenders are not a substitute for learning how to swim.

$.02

dweste,

I understand your question, and the answer will vary. For this discussion I will stick to canoeing on lakes and rivers with no, even minor, white water and not large lakes, especially with power boaters. For my new grandson, when he arrives, he will wear (all the time) a specialty child vest designed to keep small children upright in the water. For my nephew at 15 it would normally be a good Type II vest (he is now on the 3rd new size in 3 years) but soon as he stops growing so fast, it will be a Type V vest designed for canoeing. For my daughter (a superior swimmer) I bought a high quality self inflating suspender type like mine. Although the risk of malfunction is there, I try to by quality equipment so I don't worry too much about it. The Type V vest and the inflatables would have at least 22 lb bouyancy (like a type I) and be able to right an unconscious wearer right side up. All vests are tried in the pool to insure they work for the person I have purchased them for. I would not use the inflatables in below freezing temps (kayaking Alaska or Iceland). The biggest reason for the inflatable's is that they can be worn all the time, even in Florida heat and do not interfer with paddeling.

Respectfully,

Jerry

This is my PFD for swiftwater rescue operations:

Force 6 Rescue Instructor PFD

It offers a high amount of floatation, good impact protection, storage space and adjustments. However, it is not cheap, runs around $200-240, but in my case it essential for life safety.

Pete

That's a nice vest Pete! I'd be more inclined to go for one of those than an inflatable with my wallet gets a little thicker. It just screams "Safety!"

Nice! Do you know about the paddling comfort of any of their models?

Pete -- How is the Force 6 - Instructor for swimming. Can you move freely in it while also taking advantage of the flotation?

The Force 6 - Instructor would not work for my aviation requirement, but for rivers where I don't want an inflatable, this or the Rescuer might be the ticket.

Is the D ring on your vest for lifting or just tying on?

Force 6 products are specialty products designed for swifwater rescue. Here is the web page for their PFDs:
Force 6 PFDs

While self-rescue (paddling if engine goes down) in an inflatable boat is a potential event that must be taken into consideration, it is not primary function and therefore the PFDs are not designed with paddling comfort in mind.

The PFD allows for both defensive and offensive swimming, but like most PFDs, it does limit you slightly.

The tether/leash or blow-out strap is for live bait rescues where the rescuer is attached to a line, enters the water and makes contact with the victim. The blow-out feature allows the rescue to disengage the line if the force of the water is over powering the floatation. Think of a person at the end of a completed played out line. As the water flows over the person, the water pressure will tend to force the person down under the water, the blow-out feature allows the rescuer to separate from the line, thus allowing them to freely float down stream to either self-rescue or to be rescued from boat or shore.

If you look at this video around 1:13 and 2:52, 4:53, you will see how a tethered swimmer is being forced down under water. The blow-out strap/tether allows him/her to free themselves from the line and travel downstream.

Swiftwater Rescue Techniques

For suspension, a separate harness worn under the PFD would be necessary.
For example: CMC SRT Harness

Pete