My almost 8 year old DS just swam up to Cub Scouts last week and is now a "Tenderpad". He's built a few before before but now wants to carry a PSK on outtings just like the older Cubs. We quickly thew together a little fanny pack kit for him for Cuboree last weekend, knowing we wouldn't ever be far from the Pack trailer or civilization. We put in a rain poncho, headlamp, lip balm, sun screen and bug spray, all of which were used. Next weekend we're really going camping, including a canoe trip, so he wants and needs something more substantial. Just before bedtime tonight he went through my bag of extras and threw this together in his fanny pack:

-Emerg rain poncho
-Mylar emerg bag
-Bandana (Bright teal colour)
-Headlamp
-Sunglasses
-Small snap light
-Lanyard with whistle
-Snacks (2 cookies, skittles, gum)
-Trail marker tape
-Button compass (from Doug's kit that he's learning to use)
-Metal water bottle (The fanny pack has a pouch for it)
-1 pair wool socks
FAK:
-Bandaids (4 small, 6 large)
-Gauze pads (about 10 in a ziplock bag)
-Small pack baby wipes
-Alcohol prep pads (3)

EDIT: I just found an Sweet Tarts altoids-like tin for his mini FAK in the ziplock bag. It'll help corral the pieces and it's pretty shiny so would probably make a good signal device.

With the bottle empty, it doesn't weigh much, which is good because neither does he. We're going to add a signal mirror, bug spray and sunscreen wipes in the morning. Maybe his bug net hood too.

He wanted to also include his SAK and matches, but he's not allowed to carry them yet in Cubs. His Cub Book says he should include them in his PSK so he's going to ask his Akela what the rules are. He's learning to use his knife and build fires with me and DH but hasn't mastered either yet. He can add them when he's with me and/or DH, if not at Cubs.

EDIT: Akela has confirmed that our Cubs are not allowee to carry knives or matches. We'll teach them to use them properly, under direct supervision, and they can get their permits when they go up to Scouts when they're (around) 11.

What would you add, delete or change change?

EDIT: Here's a copy of what it says in the Scouts Canada Cub Book:
http://wiki.scouts.ca/English/images/3/3f/TheCubBook086-88-EmergencyKit.PDF

Re-reading some old posts, I think we'll also add an emergency contact card, with phone numbers for me/DH/local aunts/uncles/grandparents, as well as some money for a pay phone.

I think The cubs may have a widdling chit, or w.e it is called its been to long for me to remember, like the scouts do. Its a card they have to earn by going threw training and such with knives and with eatch seen mistake they lose a corner till all four are gone then they take it away and you lose the knife carrying ability.

I would add something to Absorb water such as a sponge or other options being one of them air sealed washcloths that are a inch little thing taht "grow" or a slice of a shamwow style shammy or a microfiber eyeglass cleaning cloth.

Also mason line and a good amount of it maybe even get some larger diam line.


Since he is still young maybe a laminated contact and health information card as well.

Canoe folk need properly fitted PFD's and a hypothermia kit and treatment plan.

small hand held LED light using same batteries as the headlamp, probably AAA...I EDC'd a Gerber Tempo for years, and currently Fenix E01 and spare battery

if phones in the area still take coins, a strip of 4 quarters on a piece of tape don't take up much room

small bottle of tincture of iodine, and instruct on how much to use to disinfect water with the metal bottle volume

if allowed instead of a knife, I'll still pitch the use of a pair of electrician scissors like the Wiss 175E

roll of friction or electrical tape

pencil/pen

P38 can opener

needle nose pliers with wire cutting capability

...---... Morse code by whistle,or stick on a hollow log,small leather work gloves,Mink oil treatment for gloves,boots,etc.,Goggles,Harmonica?

I would consider putting in a small platform compass instead of the button type - if there is room. Start him on map reading and use.

Thanks gang. He slowly being introduced to knife, fire, map and compass, and water purification. As he learns to use each item safely we can add it in.
Good call on the platform compass Hikermor. He still doesn't understand "red fred in his shed" but we're working on it.

Great idea about the sponge, Frisket! I've been trying to think of another water procurement method for him, besides bandana over mouth of water bottlewhich he knows. A sponge is a great idea.

Great ideas as well Les Richlacal! Coins, cordage, shears, gloves, LED, laminated info card, tape, pliars, more code card... So many ideas in so little time.

I hear ya dweste. He's learned that cold and wet means sick and maybe dead, he knows that getting out of his wet clothes is vital if it's cool and/or windy, and he knows that dark means colder. PFD with attached whistle and LED are an absolute must for everyone in the boat. When we're on the water, he also has a seperate daypack with a sealed dry bag inside that includes a change of clothes, warm sweater, more snacks and a mini tent. Without fire, dry clothes and shelter are absolute musts. In fact, that knowledge is why he added the wool socks and mylar bag instead of just the blanket.

For his bandanna, teal might be a fairly bright color in your area, but I would prefer a yellow hue. Also, I have seen bandannas that had useful information pertaining to survival printed on them. I don't know of a current source, but that might be a possibility....

Great idea Hikermor! I didn't want to discourage him last night, especially right at bedtime. I've got a brighter yellow one for him that I'll give him tonight when we repack his FAK. I'm on the hunt for one with first aid instructions or survial info on it. I'll let everyone know if and when I find one!

I might add written survival instructions, such as are in the PSP. No kit is complete without at least a small amount of duct tape. Also, a sheet or two of Rite in the Rain paper and a pencil.

Oh course! Thanks for the reminders! I can't believe he left out duct tape!! Not like my boy. He must have been tired.

I'm in the process of making him a survival sheeet, based on Doug's and his Cub Book. He can read but large print and pcitures will be easier for him. Speaking of which, think we'll add a family pic too!

Cordage is useful, too.

Great idea Chaos! We'll poke around the garage tonight and see what we can find. He's pretty good at the reef and slip knots now and will keep learning more, so cordage will definitely be a benefit!

How did everyone miss this? The number one item a kid needs with them is a WHISTLE.

Kids of all ages know how to use them to signal for help or to be located. All of the other skills and preps are only second to it. For children, a WHISTLE is item number one!

It's on the list already.

My son is also 8. He has a very small EDC in his school pack. One thing I added was couple pieces of hard candy. Always makes him feel a bit better. He also carries a powerbar in his bag.

He always wears a lanyard with whistle and LED when he's in the wildreness GoatMan. He's been taught hug-a-tree since he was old enough to walk the trail on his own two feet. He also did put an extra lanyard with whistle in his kit. He's going to add a small LED flashlight to it tonight as well.

Great idea Comms. My son has a PSK and FAK in his school pack as well, including change of clothes, rain jacket, bball hat and house key.

Oh. One more thing. When he was 5, we got him one of those hard laminate maps of our city (from Streetwise) to carry in his pack. We used alcohol markers to circle our house, his school, friends houses, grandparents house, his favorite stores (Toys R' Us & grocer).

He pulls it out and points out intersections when we are at stoplights. We have marked out a couple of locations we have found geocaches aka Buried Treasure. So he points that out to friends too.

An iPhone google app also helps with interactive map reading skills when you set a destination (with red dot) and they can follow the blue dot (you) moving towards it.

Sorry...I missed it. When I scanned the list I only saw Lanyard and not Whistle. My bad.

Well done training your kids with the right skills and to be prepard!

No worries Goatman. Redundnacy is good in most things and it never hurts to double check!

Hand sanitizer, an after-bite wipe, and a poison ivy wipe (wasn't sure what else to call this ... it's a wipe to use after you are exposed to poison ivy, oak or sumac). If there's room, replace the emergency poncho with a better reusable one. We have ponchos we bought on clearance from the local college bookstore. bright orange, nylon or similar type material, packs super small, though admittedly not as small as those emergency pocket ponchos do.

Gret ideas Mark! I picked up a mini purelle for him today and am on the hunt for a better rain jacket. He's got a good emergency one in his canoe and hiking packs but I'd like one just a bit smaller for his psk. I'd forgotten about the after-bite and poison ivy wipes. Good call! There's lots of poison ivy in a lot of the spots we visit so better safe than sorry! (We were at a local park for a Pack model rocket launch this week and as the kids ran towards to bush to retrieve the first one, one of the leaders yelled "Don't go in there! There's poison ivy!")

Thanks Izzy! I think we've got a few of those around the house that he can use.

[I want to go, too.]

Don't you all agree that this whole thread is over-the-top?

What does a 8 year old kid need survival gear on his belt?
Let the kid have his childhood and make up his own mind, not indoctrinate him with all the nonsense.

We took care of our children, took them outdoors; some took to it, others not.
The world will NOT come to an end anytime soon.

1. Because he's a Cub Scout and that's one of the things they learn about and do. Taking care of our kids doesn't always mean doing everything for them but letting them learn how to do safely for themselves.

2. Because he has taken to it. Because HE WANTS TO and because he's taking the lead, not being pushed. He asks questions as he's ready and we answer him, at the level he's ready for. He used to carry an entire backpack of "just in case stuff" in the bush that he created himself, then he lost interest, and now he wants to carry a survival kit when we're in the woods. He wants to learn and do. Should I perhaps tell him "No. You don't need to know that" or "No. You won't need one"?

... and maybe a piece of rolling luggage to carry it all?

Just kidding ... maybe.

Will an 8 year old carry all that stuff for very long? Soon enough it will be laid down, put in the tent, set on the picnic table, left in the canoe, .... while they go out and have fun. I was an 8 year old once ... I know. :-)

I think Doug Ritter's Survival for Kids link has it dead nuts on target. Minimal. Something that they'll REALLY carry. If not in their pockets, I tend to think they'll be more likely to wear a small simple fanny pack than something bigger.

People are starting to think a bright cobalt blue trash bag is actually more visible than an orange bag ... if you've ever flown over a city with roof damage - with all the cheap blue tarps spread out - you'll agree.

For the flashlight ... definitely get something with an LED. I'd fasten it to the whistle. Its for signaling in the dark and removing some fear - not for lighting up a football field so something tiny is fine ... and check the batteries often.

For the pocket knife ... check out the Kabar Dozier folding knives. Great folders for the money.

For the fire starter I'd go with a butane lighter they have experience with and a snack bag of PJ-covered cotton balls.

I TOTALLY agree. He's got the lead on this one. He's made a small fanny pack kit that's very light. When the other Cubs have theirs, he'll probably want his. If not, oh well. It's not the end of the world. His leaders and parents are always prepared and we have a duty of care to be prepared.

He wants them but he's not carrying either until he knows how to use them safely. He can use them under direct supervision until he's competent with them.

He's got a little LED keychain light that he added to his lanyard today, just like the one he wears when he's in the wilderness.

Sidebar: One of our kids thought he was lost when we were playing manhunt in the bush in the fall and followed Hug-a-tree to a tee. Was it an emergency? No, but he thought it was and hug-a-tree worked brilliantly.

I think, looking at his list, that he is the one who should be on this forum.

And, speaking for myself, I can name several 8 year olds whom are much more responsable than some adults that I could name.

Oh and +1 on the duty of care bit. But then any decent, responsable Adult should be in state Orange anyway...

Would a little toy or puzzle or something along those lines be appropriate? Something he can sit and do for a while to keep him occupied while he's "hugging a tree"?

That's a great idea Paul. He had it first and already has a hotwheels car in there!

I debated on adding a toy to DS's kit (and recommending one for the other scouts to add). Is it possible that a toy might be too distracting for the kids? I can imagine a News story headline/story along the lines of "Searchers came within 1000 yards of little Johnny's location, but he was playing with a small toy instead of blowing his whistle." I dunno, maybe I am just being paranoid.

Ken has a point. We discussed this in an earlier thread .

mpb has an important point too.

I believe that when we're dealing with youngsters, we should be introducing them to new experiences, following their lead, and helping them pursue the ones they find interesting. My son loves hiking, camping, canoeing and survival stuff but if he’d rather go to a friend’s birthday party next weekend instead of Cub Camp, that’s ok. He’s also learning that we all have responsibilities that we have to live up to. I can’t take him to the birthday party next weekend because I have to go to camp. I’m a leader and committed to being there for the safety and enjoyment of all the other kids in our group. Likewise, he can’t just bail on his soccer team because he’d rather ride his bike. He made a commitment to his team and it isn’t fair to them not to live up to that commitment.

Kids aren’t little adults. They do need to be kids and have fun. (In fact, I’d argue that a lot of us adults need to try to have a little more fun like they do!) Too much responsibility before they're ready for it isn't healthy and, frankly, is an exercise in frustration for everyone. I’m lucky to be blessed with a kid that has to be dragged inside not the other way around. He lives to explore his world and it’s our job to make sure he gets lots of opportunity to do that, and also to make sure he does it safely. Following their lead doesn’t mean an absence of parental responsibility, authority or expectations. I don’t expect him to remember much in the face of fun. I pack “just in case” supplies for him and if he wants to help pack or carry them – great! If not, it’s no biggie. I also make him wear a hat and sunscreen in the sun, wear a life jacket in the canoe, wear his lanyard in the bush, put his snow pants on in the winter, etc. Hopefully someday, those parental reminders will turn into healthy habits in him.

That said, fear can easily become the driving force behind being prepared and that's not healthy for kids. We need to be careful not to thrust our fears on our children. If they're preparing because they're worried, we need to address that, reassure them, and not let that fear grow. We should be empowering them not making them fearful. When my son started building his own survival kits, we had to be certain it wasn’t because he was scared, and if it was, reassure and teach him. Turns out he usually just wanted to be like Les Stroud!

My son really wants to carry a knife and matches, and do a survivorman overnight, but he's simply too impulsive and too uninformed. We need to provide guidance and teaching so that he learns to do things safely and with forethought. Again, we need to be mindful of his maturity and level of understanding and not overload him. We’ll help him get there but it’s going to take time and patience to learn and understand what he needs to before he can do some of the things he wants to. Much like building a house, you have to build the foundation first and then do the framing, then the electrical and plumbing, then the…. You don’t just snap your fingers and move in.

He loves taking responsibility for packing and carrying his own gear and helping out with things like building campfires, doing minor first aid (read: bandaids, afterbite), setting up camp, taking care of dishes garbage/feed, etc., and he’s constantly fiddling with his PSK. He makes lots of mistakes and is learning about consequences, but that doesn't mean I'm going to let him get hypothermia sleeping in a soaking wet sleeping bag because he forgot to close his waterbottle. That's my job.

It’s all still fun for him and that’s as it should be. When that changes, then it’s time to stop and rethink things.

Mark, that's one of my favorite threads!

I totally agree with Ken, that there's plenty of time for kids to do Scouting in Scouting. Outdoors and wilderness are but a portion of the program. There's lots of time for other stuff too! That's one of the great things about the Cub Scouts program - variety. My son's already been exposed to cooking, sewing, pet care, handicrafts, collecting and the space. We built model rockets a few weeks ago and launched them this past week.

Even though we design our meetings and events around opportunies for badge work, as well as learning team work and responsibilty, the youth are free to work on whatever badges they want to. Even though we encourage them to try to earn a badge every two months, we test them based on their own abilities, not some inflexible criteria. We have some kids with a full sash and their Six Star Award and some with almost no badges. They keep coming back because we let them explore and have fun. That's what it should be all about!

BPJ, I like the way you think.

Thanks Hikermor. I'm in good company around here!