+1 on the Svea 123 and the like. Yes, it has its limits, like everything, but it covers just about all the bases at least adequately, even if not outstandingly.

Although I also use a Coleman propane stove when car camping, I like a liquid fuel stove for, among other reasons, the fact that I can always easily tell how much fuel is left by opening the tank. More difficult with a propane or other gas canister.

You'll get no argument from me!! If you look in my list of "personal" stoves (the stoves I use repeatedly out on the trail and don't just sit in my closet), I believe it's the first on the list. I've got a 60's Svea 123 (original style -- before Optimus bought the rights to the Svea line of stoves and changed the design), and it's still running strong. It's probably the second most often used out of all of my stoves.

Of the stoves that came out in the 1950's, only one, the Svea 123, is still in production. OK, now it's the "R" version, but it's still a Svea 123. Such longevity speaks volumes as to the Svea 123's reliability and great combination of features. For a stove from the "brass age" of stoves, it's weight is surprisingly competitive with modern liquid fueled stoves. The idea of using the tank as part of the exterior of the stove was quite an innovation at the time (most stoves came in some kind of steel box) and significantly reduced both the bulk and the weight of the 123 compared to other stoves of its class (Optimus 8R, Primus 71, Optimus 80, etc.). The Svea's use of a cup as the cap to protect the burner was a very early example of dual use and again quite an innovation. The Svea's design has stood the test of time.

The one thing I might fault the Svea 123 for is it's ability (or lack thereof) to handle strong winds. Strong winds really mess with the flame on the Svea 123. Yes, you can use an external windscreen, but you'd best be danged careful about it. Over heat (and therefore over pressure) the full tank and you could get the flaming fireball of death.

Yet I still reach for my old Whisperlite even before the Svea 123. The Whisperlite has been very reliable for me, and I like the full windscreen. The full windscreen not only stops wind but also (and nearly as importantly) protects the fuel from the heat of the burner. It's low slung, giving it a low center of gravity and making it a very stable stove. It handles larger pots well.

If the weather is moderate and I'm out by myself or with one or two other persons, then I tend to grab the Svea 123. If it's windy, a bit colder, or I'm out with more people, I tend to grab the Whisperlite.

HJ

For cold weather? For strong wind? For melting snow? No, I wouldn't recommend a hexamine stove for those conditions or applications. For *all* conditions, hexamine just wouldn't enter my mind.

For "fast and light" fair weather trips? Sure. And it'll do a danged good job. I consider hexamine to be very competitive with alcohol stoves, although alcohol will burn much more cleanly. Hexamine is nice in that it's very easy to see how much you're using and that it can't spill.

The place where I see hexamine stoves having a real advantage is in their stability and "shelf life." I carry a hexamine stove in each of our family cars and my office BOB. The fuel is very durable if reasonably well packed. It won't leak, it isn't volatile, and it will last for years. Hexamine stoves are light and compact which, when combined with their stability and good "shelf life," makes them ideal for caches, cars, office BOB's, etc. Just make sure you pack a good wind screen with them.

HJ

I like the Svea 123 a lot. Once you get a hand for starting it it is quite reliable and dependable. Doesn't simmer worth a damn. Using a 'burner gauze', a bit of wire mesh with some fireproof fiber on it that spreads out and mellows the heat, helps but it never gets below rolling boil. Svea 123 really only has three settings: off, medium, and 'blast furnace'. It also only likes to run on white gas.

For urban bug-ins, car kits, power outages and other short term use a single-burner propane unit stores well, is quick to set up, completely un-finicky, and very reliable. You can quickly and easily melt snow, prepare hot drinks, and simple meals with minimum fuss and muss using standard propane bottles that are widely available. All at a very reasonable price. Add a single mantle propane lantern and you have warmth, cooking, and light.

These low-end propane units are heavy for hiking but perfect for car and canoe camping.

Playing with metaphors I suspect the 'best stove' is the human body. Stuff food and water in and you get warmth and energy.

I would probably go for the Esbit CS2350HA alcohol stove system with the Trangia Multifuel X2 adapter burner Artno: 750001 (basically the guts of a Primus Omnifuel Stove).

Well, yes and no. Some Svea 123's simmer better than others. My old, beater Svea 123 does a pretty fair job of simmering. Now, in all fairness, I probably need to replace the tank cap gasket. I suspect that my hardened (and therefore not quite as air tight) gasket has a lot to do with the ability of my Svea 123 to simmer. I've deliberately not replaced the gasket. Svea 123's have a lot of "personality" and vary widely from unit to unit.

The wire gauze trick you mention works well with Svea 123's (and indeed most stoves) that don't simmer well. There are a variety of simmer plates that will show up from time to time on eBay. MSR used to include a simmer plate (basically just a tin can lid) with its Model 9 line of stoves (now called the XGK).

HJ

Jim,

Isn't the Svea 123 more or less a lineal descendant of the first Primus stoves, dating I believe, from the late nineteenth century? It just seems like they are a classic design, very simple and durable...

The Svea 123 has many things in common with the Primus No. 1: Both are made of brass which machines well, conducts heat well, and does not rust. Both use a "roarer" type burner, which is a very simple yet reliable design with good wind resistance. Both are "upright" type stoves with the burner mounted directly atop the fuel tank. This upright design allows for thermal feedback where the heat of the flame is conducted back to the fuel to vaporize the fuel.

But there are significant differences too. Recall that Primus stoves run on kerosene. The great breakthrough of Frans Lindqvist, the designer of the Primus, was his double tube burner design which allowed for complete vaporization of kerosene.


By contrast, the Svea 123 has but a single tube. Gasoline is much easier to vaporize than kerosene, so Lindqvist's design, brilliant as it is, is unecessary.


Another important difference: Flame control on a Primus is accomplished by means of an air screw. To reduce the flame, one reduces the pressure in the fuel tank by opening the air screw. Now since kerosene has a high flash point, the mixture of air laden with kerosene vapor doesn't burst into flame as it rushes out of the tank. Try running a Primus stove on gasoline, and it's likely to be the last thing you ever do. If you open the air screw to vent the tank while running on gasoline, well, let's just say I hope your life insurance is paid up. You did want to win a Darwin award, didn't you?

The Svea 123 on the other hand has a needle valve. The flame is controlled opening and closing the valve.

While both stoves operate to some degree by means of thermal feedback, that is the heat of the flame is conducted by the brass of the stove's burner assembly to the fuel tank where the heat vaporizes the fuel, a Primus needs a pump in order to achieve full operating pressure. A Svea 123 with its gasoline fuel does not need a pump. Gasoline's volatility alone pressurizes the stove. Note: An optional mini pump (straight) or midi pump (angled) can be used, along with a special tank cap, on a Svea 123. The pump is not necessary but can be helpful in cold weather.

In short, while the Svea 123 does have some similarities to classic Primus stoves, there are some significant differences. To my mind, the Svea 123 is more of a distant cousin to the Primus No. 1. The Svea 123 is a direct descendant of the gasoline powered Campus No. 3 which came out in the 1930's.


HJ

Thanks Jim, nice piece of practical camping stove history.

For myself I've decided that a combination of the bushbuddy ultra & the burner from the Trangia Mini. The Trania burner has a simmer ring to adjust the temperature. Adjusting the temperature on the bushbuddy is done by type & amount of wood.

The trangia stores inside the bushbuddy...which nests inside the snow peak trek 900. This allows me to burn alcohol or wood, both of which are cheap and plentiful.

Weight with the trangia empty: 428grams.
Cost: $210 Canadian

Trangia burner=~$13
Trek 900=$67
Bushbuddy Ultra=$130

You can replace the bushbuddy with a homemade hobo stove which will cost you little except time. The Trek Pot/Pan combination could also be replaced with a cheap option that fits around your hobo stove.

According to Google, the Svenia: costs $90 & weighs 510 grams. The problem is if you need to use it more than lets say 7-10 times you run out of fuel.

Having an indefinite fuel supply (wood) is good. I can have both the pot and pan going at the same time, since I have two burners for the same weight. As you can tell, I am concerned with weight and not cost.