Even elementary dog obedience classes are just as much about training the owner as training the dog. Often times the dog passes, while the owner flunks.

Overall, it appears you want a slave, not a dog. The level of training you are looking at requires a significant investment of time and/or money, as well as the right kind of doggie. Many dogs are not capable of the level of training you are discussing.

Overall, IMHO, resources are better directed elsewhere. I am a dog owner, and, of course, my dog is "well trained," but frankly in a survival situation, she would be a liability, not an asset, overall.

Another thing to consider is the relatively short life span of the dog, relative to the cost of high level training.

The expectations you list will require you to invest a lot of time learning about dogs and dog training before starting on a project with expectations that seem to be at or above those for most working dogs (i.e service dogs, police dogs). Just finding the right dog will be a major undertaking since even with proven training methods and very experienced trainers most service dog candidates get disqualified during the training. Even those that pass the training will only be paired with a compatible human partner.

Frankly I don't think your expectations are realistic, but with the right dog and a lot of time and effort you could probably get a lot what you need (not want) if you are willing to invest the effort. Their are lots of training methods out there and you will need to research them to see what works for you. As a starting point please go to the bookstore or Library and get "How To Be Your Dogs Best Friend" by the Monks of New Skete.

Training isn't everything. My German Shepherds have always been well trained dogs but none of them would meet the needs you list above even though they were very smart dogs. All of them have figured out how to fit in with our family and they have been amazing in their care and support of my son who has multiple physical and cognitive challenges in his life and loves his four legged friends. Partnerships are about give and take, not just a list of expectations.

-Eric

I appreciate the voices of experience.

If it is not too much trouble, could you point out specifically which of my expectations are unrealistic, and why?

I have begun and will contiue reading, thank you for the book reference.

Thanks.

If you commit to something, anything is possible.

I have three self-trained and titled Schutzhund German Shepherds with years of personal and professional training invested in each. They are all independently certified working animals.

However, only one of my dogs (see my avatar) would qualify as "not a burden" if we had to run for our lives. It took me five years to develop the dog to this point.

He is obedient. He stays close. He is a proven serial hunter. Just the other night he caught yet another possum on our evening walk through our woods. He came back to heel position and dropped the animal when I gave the commands. Yuk, but cool at the same time. I praised his effort. I gave the command to heel away and we walked away like it never happened.

He is creative in his methods and ability to find food and water. This is 100% genetic. He always seems OK for it.

He is a ferocious, committed protector, which was developed through years of training, and is regularly proofed with weekly professional training. He really seems to enjoy a good fight. I hope I never have to test this in real life. But I believe he is competent and ready to defend. He is also controllable if something does happen.

I believe that he would be an asset in a survival situation, or at worst, neutral impact.

I think this dog is more the exception than the average. Good dogs are rare finds, and require years of dedicated, competent training to develop once you do find them.

Then once they are developed, they only last a few more years and then they become a burden too.

You have to have generations of dogs in development to ensure this tool is always available.

I have owned at least 10 dogs, before this one. I had professional help selecting the dog, and professional help training the dog. And a lot more professional help training me.

All of my other current or previous dogs would be nothing but hassle in a real survival situation.

Dogs are a lot of work. 24/7/365. Your work schedule, social life, vacations, etc. will all have to accommodate the dog. Also, expect the unexpected when it comes to vet bills and health issues and buy the best premium quality dog food you can afford. Consider it preventive medicine. And unless you can afford a good trainer (they're expensive) expect a lot of frustration and work. My advice for first time dog owners? Get an adult rescue dog thats mellow and well socialized. Every breed imaginable has a rescue society and the dog's history is usually well known. Not to mention rescue dogs are extremely grateful and loyal. And if the dog will not be able to run off leash hiking, in dog parks, etc, on a regular basis then get a small dog. Sorry if I'm over emphasizing the work part, but I find it very sad when people adopt an animal and then give them up when they realize the commitment involved. Something I've witnessed far too often.

If things get really desperate and you eat the dog people give you sympathy for being forced to make such a hard choice. Eat the kids and people look at you funny.

+1 dogs.

You make a very good point. IMHO a lot of people fall in love with the idea of having a pet without realizing that ideas don't puke into your shoes, demand begin let out at inconvenient times, require inoculations and heart-worm medication. Ideas don't get lonely and chew up the couch or scoot their butt across that oriental rug your grandmother gave you.

I've seen too many people who claim to be 'dog lovers' neglect and abuse their animals because they can't bridge the gap between what they think their idealized dog is all about, and what a real dog does.

LMAO. Too true.

"Get an adult rescue dog thats mellow and well socialized."

Those aren't the dogs that usually end up in rescue. Rescue dogs tend to have stupid/lazy/ignorant/etc owners who create the problems and the next owner (if any) ends up having to deal with them. The new owner, if motivated and knowledgeable, first has to deal with the bad behaviors, THEN train them into the good behaviors. Many owners and many dogs don't understand the concept of change.

If you're wanting a dog for survival purposes, you're probably going to fail. What Dweste wants is a robot dog. Robot dogs do exist (usually of the working breeds), but they generally don't act independently with varying conditions, they just wait for commands. If someone throws a large mail bag over you and whacks you in the head with a length of pipe, without any verbal or hand commands, the dog will probably just stand there and watch.

Suppose you do get a 'survival dog', chosen and trained, and you never need it? What then? Is the dog treated as a pet/friend? Is it left out in a run or chained to a stake for the next ten years?

As far as I've seen, the protective instinct in dogs seems to be determined by his relationship with his family. The dog is protecting HIS owner, HIS kids.

Sue

The SAR dog training books are pretty clear that part of the training is protecting their handler, and other friendlies, if threatened without command. Those dogs also constantly react to changing conditions and are trained to deal with them calmly and appropriately. These dogs operate off-lead but rarely out of sight of handler-partners. Robot dogs, if they exist, would not make the grade. Any dogs selected for intense and constant training of the first year or so that do not work out are returned to the breeder as part of the purchase ccontract. Training is usually by owner under the supervision of very experienced trainers and their is frequent supervised testing and training of both owner and dog.