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#22415 - 12/08/03 10:04 PM Pilot Survives 24 Hours
Dan-e-boy Offline
journeyman

Registered: 11/22/03
Posts: 52
Loc: Pennsylvania
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Dan-e-boy


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#22416 - 12/08/03 10:59 PM Re: Pilot Survives 24 Hours
Comanche7 Offline
Addict

Registered: 07/04/02
Posts: 436
Loc: Florida
Dan, you beat me to it... sounds like this guy was pretty fortunate. Really curious as to the nitty gritty details of the survival, coming out of the water soaking wet, in freezing weather, hiking to a cabin, for reasons unknown unable to create any heat...did he find dry clothes inside? Was there any food? Inquiring minds want to know. <img src="images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />


Obviously several things had to go in his favor here. Nonetheless, I'm glad to hear that he survived.

Regards,
Comanche7

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#22417 - 12/08/03 11:24 PM Re: Pilot Survives 24 Hours
Dan-e-boy Offline
journeyman

Registered: 11/22/03
Posts: 52
Loc: Pennsylvania
Yeah, this story is rather vague on details...it would be great to know a little more if anyone out there has heard more about this story, please post...

Knowing the little we know from the story, does anyone have any interest in discussing how this survivor could have been better prepared...what would you have done in his situation? How should you handle being immediately thrown into hypothermic conditions and directly into a survival situation? Any ideas or comments? What items could have been used from a "mini-kit" (Altoids size) and EDC, if these were the ONLY things he had access to... I think this could be an interesting discussion <img src="images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
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Dan-e-boy


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#22418 - 12/08/03 11:34 PM Re: Pilot Survives 24 Hours
Comanche7 Offline
Addict

Registered: 07/04/02
Posts: 436
Loc: Florida
Cautionary observation, while I feel the thirst for knowledge, it might be a bit wise to temper the thirst by considering that we really don't have many of the details of this incident. It could be that he is a member of ETS and had his Altoid Kit and a bunch of other stuff, but got to the cabin and was unable to find enough fuel for a fire (yeah, I know that it may be farfetched, but it could happen). Yes, I believe that we can learn from others successes and failures, just want to keep a perspective on the "Monday morning quarterbacking" .

Sure would like to believe that one of us would have had some serious FAK/PSK & cold weather precautions in place and worn on our person before taking off to begin with.

Getting warm & dry would be VERY high on the priority list in this scenario, communication would also be high on the list as well. Perhaps he found some food in the cabin.

The article stated something about he could not get his frozen shoes off of his feet. Hmmm, that could be a problem. My guess is that he was suffering / feeling some confusion from the cold as well.

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#22419 - 12/09/03 12:35 AM Re: Pilot Survives 24 Hours
Dan-e-boy Offline
journeyman

Registered: 11/22/03
Posts: 52
Loc: Pennsylvania
This whole situation reminded me of Cody Lundin's Book, "98.6 Degrees - The Art Of Keeping Your Ass Alive"...this is good proof of his touting the "Basics" and "Keeping it Simple"...In this situation this person would most likley be lacking any complex-motor or fine-motor skills due to the cold and hypothermia and would have to rely on his gross-motor skills...everything would have to be kept very basic and easily accomplished using very little, if any, dexterity...if he was suffering or feeling any confusion that is another reason for honing very basic gross-motor survival skills (also good reason to hone and practice/train for "What if" situations). Basic Gear/Basic Skills...Maybe this survivor did the right thing...maintaining core body temperature and seeking shelter...???

Commanche7 - I agree about the "Monday Morning Quarterbacking" but it is mind-tickling to play the "What if" game...Thanks for the responses.
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Dan-e-boy


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#22420 - 12/09/03 01:27 AM Re: Pilot Survives 24 Hours
Comanche7 Offline
Addict

Registered: 07/04/02
Posts: 436
Loc: Florida
When you have the time (and the interactive server is back online) go to the yellow ETS banner above, and on the right hand side click on the drop down menu, select "INTERACTIVE FUN", there is a small interactive "what if" scenario that actually has a cold weather survival "test" of sorts. While not quite the "Dungeons and Dragons" interactive game quality, it does make one think. Someone obviously put in a bunch of time to make it work. If I knew enough about programming, I'd offer to help design a couple of other survival situations for us to kick around.

Now, off to email Doug in case he is unaware of that server being down, he is a pretty busy guy and it helps when we catch this stuff early and give him a heads up...of course, he may already be aware of it and it is just down for maintenance, however, better safe than sorry.

Comanche7

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#22421 - 12/09/03 01:39 AM Re: Pilot Survives 24 Hours
Anonymous
Unregistered


I would be very interested in knowing the basics of "Oh sh-t, this guy just crawled out of the woods in front of me, what do I need to do to take care of him and keep him alive."



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#22422 - 12/09/03 01:46 AM Re: Pilot Survives 24 Hours
aardwolfe Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/22/01
Posts: 924
Loc: St. John's, Newfoundland
I certainly wouldn't want to second-guess the pilot in question, especially without knowing more details about what happened. But I don't think ruminating about a hypothetical situation is a bad idea. Armchair QB'ing can be odious if it descends to the level of "That guy was a moron, I would have done this and this and that..." but as Peter Garrison pointed out in Flying magazine, the time to start thinking about thunderstorm avoidance is not when the sky is black and purple and your hands are full of airplane, it's when you're sipping hot chocolate in your air-conditioned living room, reading about some other poor b***d who flew into a thunderstorm.

Realistically, I think scrambling out of a submerged, inverted float plane in the Arctic, in winter, with the temperature close to or below freezing, is pretty much the worst-case scenario for survival, and kudos to this pilot for handling it as well as he did. Any electronic equipment (such as a cell-phone, handheld radio, or GPS) is likely to be waterlogged junk; any bulky survival equipment is at the bottom of the lake or river. Anything that's not in your pockets or around your neck can't be relied on.

I think there's going to be an unfortunate trade-off in this situation - you don't want to be wearing a bulky overcoat when the plane goes in the water, much less a backpack; so likely - assuming you get out of the plane and make it to shore - you won't have a lot of equipment. Being able to build a shelter and a fire quickly would probably be imperative. (If there's a known shelter nearby, as there was in this case, it makes sense to head towards it, but at those temperatures, even a walk of a mile through heavy snow and/or woods might be too much for someone who's lightly dressed, wet, and hypothermic. Maybe a couple of energy bars would help to stave off hypothermia, so I'd probably stuff a couple of those in an inside pocket.

Basically, what I'd want to have (and what I think I might realistically fit in my pockets):

SAS Survival Guide
Altoids PSK
Esbit Stove (or at least a couple of fuel tabs) to start a quick fire)
Space Blanket
Redundant means of starting a fire - mag-flint, Bic lighter, waterproof matches, WW2 flame-thrower ... <img src="images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Good quality knife to shave wood for kindling (feather-sticks)
Waterproof tinder (a small bottle of Purell Hand Sanitiser).
Handful of energy bars
Cord for erecting a windbreak or shelter
Wool clothing
Waterproof flashlight?
_________________________
"The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled."
-Plutarch

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#22423 - 12/09/03 01:53 AM Re: Pilot Survives 24 Hours
aardwolfe Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/22/01
Posts: 924
Loc: St. John's, Newfoundland
Take a First Aid course. Could be the the best investment you ever make. <img src="images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
"The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled."
-Plutarch

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#22424 - 12/09/03 02:47 AM Re: Pilot Survives 24 Hours
Anonymous
Unregistered


Have taken a number of them, thanks.
Just looking for additional input.

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