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#224191 - 05/24/11 02:00 AM Re: Survival scavenging a car [Re: dweste]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 3241
Loc: Alberta, Canada
A caution -- many forms of windshield washer fluid contain methanol, which is deadly poisonous and will distill out along with the water. If all you've ever used is straight water, no problem.


Edited by dougwalkabout (05/24/11 02:00 AM)

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#224193 - 05/24/11 02:17 AM Re: Survival scavenging a car [Re: dweste]
dweste Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 2463
Loc: Central California
Now you're cooking!

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#224201 - 05/24/11 06:17 AM Re: Survival scavenging a car [Re: dougwalkabout]
MostlyHarmless Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/03/09
Posts: 982
Loc: Norway
Originally Posted By: dougwalkabout


Airbags: hat, clothing, moccasins, kite to get attention, loincloth, hot air signal/aerial balloon. Whether you can get them out without blowing up the high pressure cannister and gassing yourself, I don't know.


Ah, that is neither practical, safe or entertaining.

The safest and most entertaining way is no doubt to see for yourself what kind of BOOM those airbags make when they go off. Much easier to remove the fabric after they've blown.

Does anyone know how to manually set off an airbag with minimal tools? I'm drooling to know.

What you don't want to do is trying to dismantle the mechanism without proper tools, procedures and knowledge. If you tamper with an airbag it will most likely blow up in your face - OUCH.

Originally Posted By: dougwalkabout

Airbag cannister: throw in fire (and run, baby) to generate signalling boom. You probably don't want to use it for cooking given the very toxic contents.


Fun, fun, fun... but how do you remove it without triggering it?

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#224203 - 05/24/11 06:43 AM Re: Survival scavenging a car [Re: dougwalkabout]
MostlyHarmless Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/03/09
Posts: 982
Loc: Norway
Originally Posted By: dougwalkabout
Again, "no contents beyond whatever normally comes as safety equipment" means no tools, so whatever you can lever off or smash with the tire iron is about it. EDC isn't part of the exercise.


Bummer. I was just waiting for the ETS forum crowd to jump in with their somewhat more extensive definition of "standard safety equipment".


Without ANY tools beyond the equipment supplied by the car dealer you probably won't even have a knife. Breaking some glass is probably the easiest way to get a sharp edge.

Does "safety equipment" include first aid kit? It does in some countries. If so, scissors and tape may be included in the first aid kit. Wrap tape around the glas splint to create a more comfortable handle to your glas knife.

The 1st aid scissors - IF you have them - are probably more useful for cutting through fabric (seat belts, upholstery) than your glas knife.

In Europe, standard safety equipment includes bright neon yellow reflective safety west and a red safety triangle. At least take the west and think really careful if you should take the triangle, too.

Removing the washer fluid tubing is a good idea. Just rinse them with plenty of water and you should be fine with them for water tubing. They also have plenty of other uses. Your "standard safety equipment" may or may not include enough tools to dismantle the fluid tank without breaking it.

Beyond that - listen to Dweste and STOP. What is the situation? What are your most immediate concerns? (The rules of 3 is a good indicator here). If you can meet those most immediate needs (i.e. won't freeze to death/die of thirst/heat stroke), what are your options? (Self extract/wait for rescue/wait for improvement of conditions). You should weight your options really careful before you render your vehicle inoperable.


Beyond the washer fluid tubing (don't forget the headligth washers if you have them!), the safety equipment, the tires, the seat belts and whatever fabric you can get from the seats / upholstery and the wipers, there is very little you can do with minimum tools.

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#224204 - 05/24/11 06:55 AM Re: Survival scavenging a car [Re: MostlyHarmless]
dweste Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 2463
Loc: Central California
Originally Posted By: MostlyHarmless
... there is very little you can do with minimum tools.


What about making the tools you want?

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#224206 - 05/24/11 07:16 AM Re: Survival scavenging a car [Re: dweste]
MostlyHarmless Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/03/09
Posts: 982
Loc: Norway
Originally Posted By: dweste
Originally Posted By: MostlyHarmless
... there is very little you can do with minimum tools.


What about making the tools you want?


A good point that merits some comments.

With odd objects extracted from a vehicle (say, glas splinters and a windscreen wiper) and some rocks you can create tools for slicing, poking, prying, manipulation and scraping. Those are highly valuable tools, and not only for bushcrafting - but they are not the kind of tools you need to dismantle anything serious from your vehicle.

Creating tools for mechanical jobs (such as a wrench, a 10mm spanner or needle nose pliers) is something you realistically can't do out in the bush. Now if you have a metal file and lots of time and patience you could actually create a 10mm spanner out of the seat belt buccle. No file - no 10mm spanner.

I think a flat headed screwdriver might just be possible to improvise - if the screw in question isn't too tightly screwed. Again, a file would make the creation a whole lot of easier. A philipz screwdriver? That's a lot harder. It may be possible with a file and the right material. No file? Forget it.


One obstacle is that any metal soft enough to be shaped into the right form is probably be too soft for the pressure involved in say, the tip of a screwdriver. Modern mechanical tools are hardened and tempered to be just the right compromise between hardness, strenght and brittleness. This is particular important at the tip of the tools, where the tool connect with the screw or bolt. The stresses involved here are enourmous. The wrong tempering or shape and the tip breaks/wears out immediately.

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#224225 - 05/24/11 04:45 PM Re: Survival scavenging a car [Re: dweste]
dweste Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 2463
Loc: Central California
What tools do you reasonably expect to be supplied with a recent model sedan?

My experience is that when you pop open the trunk you are going to find at least some kind of scissor jack; one or more hollow tube segments that fit together to make into a handle connecting to the scissor jack; and a smallish angled tire iron with a lug nut socket end and a beveled end presumably reminiscent of the days when tires were pried from rims for repair or replacement.

How much auto dismantling do you think you could accomplish with these tools, remembering you do not care what you must twist, bend, or mutilate to get what you want?

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#224228 - 05/24/11 05:06 PM Re: Survival scavenging a car [Re: dweste]
Eric Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/09/06
Posts: 323
Loc: Iowa
Lots of interesting thoughts here but I am curious as to the definition of no tools - does this mean I don't have at least minimal EDC (say a knife and/or firestarter) with me?

Some things aren't practical without tools or even with the tire change kit that comes with most cars. Good luck even getting the tires off with the tiny little lug wrench most cars come with these days. Getting into the spark plugs or headlights (or disconnecting hoses etc.) is just not really an option without at least a knife or multi-tool. Given those there are lots of options. Without them, well, there are some things that brute force and ingenuity will get ya but the best toys need tools to access.

Realistically my minimal car kit (in every car I own) would let me totally dismantle your typical sedan. Putting it back might require some additional tools and maybe some replacement parts. smile

- Eric
_________________________
You are never beaten until you admit it. - - General George S. Patton


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#224232 - 05/24/11 05:16 PM Re: Survival scavenging a car [Re: Eric]
dweste Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 2463
Loc: Central California
Originally Posted By: Eric
Lots of interesting thoughts here but I am curious as to the definition of no tools - does this mean I don't have at least minimal EDC (say a knife and/or firestarter) with me? - Eric


Initially I did not include or exclude your EDC, but as the thread evolved it was assumed no EDC and I went with that.

What "good stuff" do you think is beyond the reach of the normal manufacturer supplied tools and your ingenuity?

What tools would you want whose equivalent you could not improvise out of the car itself?


Edited by dweste (05/24/11 05:18 PM)

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#224234 - 05/24/11 05:21 PM Re: Survival scavenging a car [Re: Eric]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Your scenario is rather unrealistic in that any auto (at least any in my possession) always has an assortment of tools, including some that are specifically designed to effect routine maintenance and emergency repairs and deal with the predictable raoadside hazards.

Perhaps it would be profitable to recast the proposition - what kinds of tools should you carry in order to effective use/dismantle/alter your auto in a survival situation?

I must say I am not very enthusiastic about ripping my car apart. At least not when there are other options. But this is a fun thread. When we have exhausted the possibilities for cars, we can move on to planes, boats, steam locomotives, ATV's.....
_________________________
Geezer in Chief

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