#223721 - 05/16/11 07:57 PM
Search for hiking WA state trooper, used SPOT
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Old Hand
Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 1185
Loc: Channeled Scablands
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http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2015070317_apwamissingtrooper.html"WENATCHEE, Wash. — Searchers from Snohomish and Chelan counties are looking for an off-duty Washington State Patrol trooper missing on a hike in the North Cascades. The Wenatchee World reports an emergency signal from Daniel Anderson was reported Sunday evening by the International Emergency Response Coordination Center in Houston to Chelan County dispatchers."
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#223728 - 05/16/11 09:57 PM
Re: Search for hiking WA state trooper, used SPOT
[Re: clearwater]
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Geezer
Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
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He apparently had some gear with him, so I hope he holes up and waits for help, instead of doing something dumb. At least they have the location pinpointed. I hope.
Sue
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#223772 - 05/17/11 05:11 PM
Re: Search for hiking WA state trooper, used SPOT
[Re: clearwater]
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Addict
Registered: 07/06/03
Posts: 550
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_________________________
No, I am not Bear Grylls, but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night and Bear was there too!
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#223782 - 05/17/11 07:28 PM
Re: Search for hiking WA state trooper, used SPOT
[Re: widget]
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Geezer
Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
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Searchers have Daniel Anderson’s destination because he sent his coordinates Sunday with an emergency signal, according to KIRO-TV. Is that correct? He sent his destination? His current position, I can understand, but his destination? Haven't they zeroed in on the location yet??? Why the delay? Sue
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#223787 - 05/17/11 08:18 PM
Re: Search for hiking WA state trooper, used SPOT
[Re: chaosmagnet]
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Geezer in Chief
Geezer
Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
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Note that the searchers are having some difficulty in accessing the area because of weather. A ground party trying to reach him is out of radio contact and the weather makes helicopters dicey.
When you rely on SPOT, just remember that self sufficiency may still be needed, since instant responses cannot be guaranteed. Apparently the individual sought is equipped, so this incident has a good chance of ending favorably. We just don't know yet.
_________________________
Geezer in Chief
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#223822 - 05/18/11 12:22 PM
Re: Search for hiking WA state trooper, used SPOT
[Re: clearwater]
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Old Hand
Registered: 10/19/06
Posts: 1013
Loc: Pacific NW, USA
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Trooper Anderson was airlifted out of the area late yesterday, alive and well. To those not familiar with the area, its remote, there's still an unusually high snowpack, over alot of avalanche terrain. Top it off, the Cascades took an inch or two of rain over the weekend, adding to an already high avalanche danger. All of which I believe contributed to Anderson's predicament and to the difficulty of his rescue. Thanks go out to SAR - and SARs everywhere - who risked their own lives to make this rescue. http://www.komonews.com/news/local/122123649.html
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#223827 - 05/18/11 01:50 PM
Re: Search for hiking WA state trooper, used SPOT
[Re: clearwater]
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Addict
Registered: 07/06/03
Posts: 550
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Good to hear a happy ending. Another case of Spot working well. I would definitely own one if I hiked solo in the wild.
_________________________
No, I am not Bear Grylls, but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night and Bear was there too!
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#223834 - 05/18/11 02:59 PM
Re: Search for hiking WA state trooper, used SPOT
[Re: clearwater]
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Old Hand
Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 1076
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Awesome. I'd love to hear the details on what went wrong and how he handled it.
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#223835 - 05/18/11 03:47 PM
Re: Search for hiking WA state trooper, used SPOT
[Re: Glock-A-Roo]
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Geezer
Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
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There are a few more details at another news site. "He said he had taken a few tumbles and lost the tent that was on his backpack. He had to sleep in a wet sleeping bag in freezing temperatures for two nights." Trooper found safe Even so, he was in such good condition that he didn't need to be hospitalized. And he wasn't traveling light, he had a tent, sleeping bag, food and other gear. You can contribute to a happy ending by having some gear, knowledge and sense. I'm glad it turned out so well. Sue
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#223847 - 05/18/11 06:40 PM
Re: Search for hiking WA state trooper, used SPOT
[Re: clearwater]
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Old Hand
Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 1076
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As I see more news stories with further detail, I keep wondering: why did he need rescue at all? Apparently he was not injured in any way, and he was on snowshoes, so was he 1) snowed in beyond all ability to move even with snowshoes, or 2) lost?
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#223848 - 05/18/11 07:24 PM
Re: Search for hiking WA state trooper, used SPOT
[Re: clearwater]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 3162
Loc: Big Sky Country
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It sounded like he just got lost. The article mentioned him taking a big tumble and losing his tent. Probably got disoriented and couldn't backtrack out.
_________________________
“I'd rather have questions that cannot be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” —Richard Feynman
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#223890 - 05/19/11 03:27 PM
Re: Search for hiking WA state trooper, used SPOT
[Re: clearwater]
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Veteran
Registered: 07/23/08
Posts: 1502
Loc: Mesa, AZ
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+100
_________________________
Don't just survive. Thrive.
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#223905 - 05/19/11 07:56 PM
Re: Search for hiking WA state trooper, used SPOT
[Re: Glock-A-Roo]
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Geezer
Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
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why did he need rescue at all? I'm getting the impression that he fell into something like a narrow canyon. The snow is probably deeper in a place like that due to being heavily shaded most of the day. Then, which way should he go? Trudge a few miles in wet snow with rocks hidden underfoot, slip fall, break a bone, get soaking wet, then discover that you went miles in the wrong direction and find yourself in a box canyon? If you aren't absolutely certain you can get yourself out, why keep pushing? How many rescues and deaths could be blamed on poor judgment and simply going in the wrong direction? Why? To save face? So the folks here at ETS can point out how dumb you were because you DIDN'T call for help when it would have been a quick fix? Three-week searches cost more than three-day searches. Sue
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#223908 - 05/19/11 08:39 PM
Re: Search for hiking WA state trooper, used SPOT
[Re: Susan]
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Sheriff
Pooh-Bah
Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 1804
Loc: Southern California
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If you're wet, in snow country, you have no tent, and you have a down sleeping bag, you are in a survival situation. From the follow up article I read, it sounds like he was hiking out the way he came in when he was found. Staying put, especially if you've sent out a distress beacon with your coordinates is generally a good idea, but in this case potentially life threatening. Huddled in a wet sleeping bag while you stay put is potentially life threatening. Staying on the move will keep you warm. I might have done the same. The follow up article stated that he saw helicopters searching for him but that he had no means of signalling them. A couple of thoughts: 1. A partner (or two) in remote, snowy country ain't such a bad idea. 2. His beacon was worth every penny he paid for it. 3. Make danged sure that essential gear is secured to your pack. 4. Always carry means to signal. I don't know the conditions of the day he was found, but in general a signal mirror is a good means of signalling. A whistle is also good (although not for choppers) Maybe flares or signal panels of some sort. Perhaps a smoke creating device. A strobe at night or even your headlamp. Bright, contrasting outer layers are good. Don't forget your backpack. You may or may not be wearing a given outer layer depending on conditions, but you'll almost always be wearing your pack; again, bright contrasting colors are good. Marpat and ACU patterns look cool, but do you really want to be wearing them when you're the subject of a SAR effort? HJ
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#223918 - 05/19/11 11:02 PM
Re: Search for hiking WA state trooper, used SPOT
[Re: chaosmagnet]
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Geezer in Chief
Geezer
Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
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Doing SAR, we routinely flashed our locations with signal mirrors by day and ACR/4F strobes at night, and the combination worked flawlessly. On one occasion, when my buddy and I stumbled onto a serious accident in the back country, we used a large bonfire to guide the helicopter in by night. At 174 lumens, your light ought to get the job done in style.
What really helps is bright colors and motion. Also, the pilot really wants to know the direction and velocity of wind on the ground at the LZ, so smoke of some sort is welcome. The standard practice is for the individual directing the helo to stand with back to the wind.
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Geezer in Chief
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#223929 - 05/20/11 02:05 AM
Re: Search for hiking WA state trooper, used SPOT
[Re: bacpacjac]
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Old Hand
Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 1076
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I'd add a note that keeping some essentials (i.e. PSK) on your person is a smart plan. Even if you lose your pack you'll still have those to help you survive. That's how I roll too. I wear a slim ArcTeryx waistpack that rides just below my bellybutton. That way it stays in the same place if I'm wearing a light daypack with no waistbelt or an overnight pack with full waistbelt. I wear it regardless of the outing type or duration. In the "belly pack" I have: - 1 liter water bag with 8 chlorine dioxide tablets - mini fire kit - Petzl e-Lite mini headlamp - a 2-person AMK heatsheet blanket - signal mirror - whistle - couple of safety pins - 5 feet of duct tape - neon pink flagging tape - Leatherman tool - SPOT-2 unit, with Type I dummy cord - lip balm - 50 foot piece of Kelty dyneema cord (1 ounce!) - an energy bar - slim 3"x5" Rite-In-The-Rain notebook - Fisher space pen - Suunto M3 global needle compass, with Type I dummy cord It's a pretty good setup even though I am a gram counting fanatic. There is further gear in my pack but the idea is for the belly pack to have the bare minimum to get by.
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#223971 - 05/20/11 06:27 PM
Re: Search for hiking WA state trooper, used SPOT
[Re: hikermor]
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Geezer
Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
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The weather was bad when they were looking for him. In the Cascades, clouds right down to the ground is more the rule than the exception. I can't see that a mirror is much good without the sun. Helicopters aren't likely to fly at night in cloud cover, so you're wasting your zillion-cp flashlight. If you've got low cloud cover at night, a signal fire might not be seen, esp if the conditions are poor enough that the choppers aren't flying. With low clouds during the day, the smoke hangs along the ground, difficult to distinguish from clouds or fog. If you're in a narrow canyon on a clear night, it still might be tricky for aircraft to see your fire, or your flashlight, due to the narrow angle of vision. Missing WA Trooper sorry to have caused trouble So, this brings up the question of HOW to signal in poor weather and poor visibility conditions. As has been said before, you need to prepare for the worst possible conditions, not the best possible conditions. Sue
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#223993 - 05/20/11 09:25 PM
Re: Search for hiking WA state trooper, used SPOT
[Re: Hikin_Jim]
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Geezer in Chief
Geezer
Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
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It would be informative to see the official report, which ought to give specifics and answer some of the questions raised here.. Just a couple of comments - a signal mirror will work, although with diminished range, in overcast conditions. Just how thick were the clouds?
At night, or in bad weather, a fire is one of the best signals. The light, if spotted, is quite distinctive, and the smoke, especially, will bring searchers to you. I have followed smoke upstream on a couple of occasions during damp searches.
_________________________
Geezer in Chief
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#223994 - 05/20/11 10:38 PM
Re: Search for hiking WA state trooper, used SPOT
[Re: clearwater]
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Old Hand
Registered: 10/19/06
Posts: 1013
Loc: Pacific NW, USA
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According to a poster on nwhikers.net who said he was a relative of the lost hiker (sanderson), the Trooper carried a SPOT, not a PLB. And while a report might be interesting to us outside SAR community, I've never seen one posted after an incident.
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#224001 - 05/21/11 02:50 AM
Re: Search for hiking WA state trooper, used SPOT
[Re: Glock-A-Roo]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 3601
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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I wear a slim ArcTeryx waistpack that rides just below my bellybutton... I wear it regardless of the outing type or duration. In the "belly pack" I have: - 1 liter water bag with 8 chlorine dioxide tablets - mini fire kit - Petzl e-Lite mini headlamp - a 2-person AMK heatsheet blanket - signal mirror - whistle - couple of safety pins - 5 feet of duct tape - neon pink flagging tape - Leatherman tool - SPOT-2 unit, with Type I dummy cord - lip balm - 50 foot piece of Kelty dyneema cord (1 ounce!) - an energy bar - slim 3"x5" Rite-In-The-Rain notebook - Fisher space pen - Suunto M3 global needle compass, with Type I dummy cord There is further gear in my pack but the idea is for the belly pack to have the bare minimum to get by. Nice! Smart thinking, Glock! I'd love to see pics in an on-your-body-PSK thread.
Edited by bacpacjac (05/21/11 10:55 AM)
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#224023 - 05/21/11 05:09 PM
Re: Search for hiking WA state trooper, used SPOT
[Re: Susan]
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Veteran
Registered: 12/14/09
Posts: 1419
Loc: Nothern Ontario
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If you've got low cloud cover at night, a signal fire might not be seen, esp if the conditions are poor enough that the choppers aren't flying. With low clouds during the day, the smoke hangs along the ground, difficult to distinguish from clouds or fog.
If you're in a narrow canyon on a clear night, it still might be tricky for aircraft to see your fire, or your flashlight, due to the narrow angle of vision.
In bad weather, the choppers will probably not be flying. However there is almost always ground SAR out searching. Even the fire may not be seen or the smoke spotted, the scent carries. Given that, I would think that most SAR who smell wood fire scent where there normally should not be, would factor this in the search pattern to determine if possible, the direction of where the scent is coming from.
_________________________
Earth and sky, woods and fields, lakes and rivers, the mountain and the sea, are excellent schoolmasters, and teach some of us more than we can ever learn from books.
John Lubbock
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#224116 - 05/23/11 12:35 AM
Re: Search for hiking WA state trooper, used SPOT
[Re: Glock-A-Roo]
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Veteran
Registered: 07/23/08
Posts: 1502
Loc: Mesa, AZ
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In the "belly pack" I have: - 1 liter water bag with 8 chlorine dioxide tablets - mini fire kit - Petzl e-Lite mini headlamp - a 2-person AMK heatsheet blanket - signal mirror - whistle - couple of safety pins - 5 feet of duct tape - neon pink flagging tape - Leatherman tool - SPOT-2 unit, with Type I dummy cord - lip balm - 50 foot piece of Kelty dyneema cord (1 ounce!) - an energy bar - slim 3"x5" Rite-In-The-Rain notebook - Fisher space pen - Suunto M3 global needle compass, with Type I dummy cord Super close to what I do too. I'd say Great minds but I am a plagerizing fool. Oh wait, [right click, Print]
_________________________
Don't just survive. Thrive.
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#224128 - 05/23/11 05:50 AM
Re: Search for hiking WA state trooper, used SPOT
[Re: comms]
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Old Hand
Registered: 06/03/09
Posts: 982
Loc: Norway
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No, Sir - absolutely not! Plagiarism would be to claim that the list you've ripped from someone else is your own invention. There is no need to re-invent the wheel. Copying someone else's well thought out setup is smart. Adapt as needed.
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#224281 - 05/24/11 11:14 PM
Re: Search for hiking WA state trooper, used SPOT
[Re: Glock-A-Roo]
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Veteran
Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 1372
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Glad this worked out well. I have a SPOT2 and carry it any time I am remote ... hiking, riding my mot0rcycle, whatever.
One nice thing is that you can program in a good specific emergency message. So your message can tell police who you are, how old you are, where you are going, the route you plan to follow, and what kind of gear you've got with you. If you use the device intelligently, the emergency message can provide a lot of information.
I should explain that the SPOT2 does not transmit the whole message. The device just sends an SOS signal when you hit the SOS button. Hence the SPOT signal will give your latest GPS coordinates, and inform the headquarters (in Texas) that you have a serious problem. Your location is updated every 15 mins. Prior to your trip, you can go online to your user profile and update the message that you want people to read in an actual emergency - so that the SPOT organization and the police will have this data. Therefore, with a little forward thinking, you can give them a very good picture of who you are and what you are doing out there. Then - so long as you stick to your planned route - all this stuff will be helpful to a search team.
Pete #2
Edited by Pete (05/24/11 11:19 PM)
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#224320 - 05/25/11 01:06 PM
Re: Search for hiking WA state trooper, used SPOT
[Re: Pete]
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Geezer
Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
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That's a good point about forward thinking and keeping your SPOT online profile up to date. I wonder if the same couldn't be done through the registration page for the other PLB's (McMurdo, ACR ...).
When I registered my FF210 they took basic contact info so if your device is ever triggered they can check for false alarms, but it would be relatively easy for them to also allow for other info that SAR might find useful.
_________________________
Better is the Enemy of Good Enough. Okay, what’s your point??
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#224324 - 05/25/11 04:47 PM
Re: Search for hiking WA state trooper, used SPOT
[Re: clearwater]
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Veteran
Registered: 07/23/08
Posts: 1502
Loc: Mesa, AZ
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I don't think so Russ. 'Real' PLBs (this coming from a SPOT2 owner) are one button items. SPOT on the other hand is listed as a GPS messenger, has multiple functions for tracking (online only) and messaging. Most of these buttons are dedicated but the Custom button allows you to change the message that is sent to whomever is in your contact list. Which can also be modified based on person(s) you want to send the message too.
Globalstar, SPOT owners, recent came out with a puck sized unit that mates by bluetooth with your smartphone so that you can send test by satellite the same as if on a cell network. I may be a bit off on that particular but have been reading the advertising on it.
_________________________
Don't just survive. Thrive.
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#224367 - 05/26/11 01:32 PM
Re: Search for hiking WA state trooper, used SPOT
[Re: clearwater]
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Old Hand
Registered: 10/19/06
Posts: 1013
Loc: Pacific NW, USA
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If I read the last part of Mr. Ritter's post correctly on the development of the SEND standard, the manufacturers of PLBs are not innovating in the ability to post emergency information, at least not at the rate of the manufacturer(s) of SPOT type devices. While there is hope for a change, and that hope starts with a recent change in management or leadership of a PLB industry organization, it may end up that SPOT becomes a SEND-compatible device with more communication options (and form factors etc), while PLB devices become less capable (of communicating detailed info) relegated to smaller, regulated markets that require rigorously designed PLBs (ex. Coast Guard specs).
You see this all the time in the technology world - different products make their choices, and take their chances. New markets can be opened up by choosing wisely, or expanding the usefulness, lowering a quality bar, making devices cheaper, or simply making a device easier or more capable to use. Some become every day devices, some become ship's ballast or landfill.
It can't be an easy choice - PLBs have a reputation and a reality for reliability and durability, they are used routinely in life and death scenarios by 'serious' professions, like saltwater fishermen and backwoods outdoorsmen. Ships sink and bears attack - PLB gets activated. SPOT is marketed towards every day users, and one of the biggest criticisms of SPOT is that it actually encourages requests for rescue in situations where rescue is not critical. In terms of the primary market served, PLB manufacturers may consider they have an obligation to maintain their reliability and durability despite the incursion of new demands for communication capability, which could threaten to diminish PLBs (ex. by reducing battery life etc) if implemented in the wrong way.
FWIW I own a second gen PLB from McMurdo, I don't need the enhanced communication capability of a SPOT, I require the more durable PLB, and the form factor works for me. When my battery runs down to expiration though, I'll look at what's available on the market then, or possibly look at newer SEND compatible devices before my battery runs out. Just as I relied upon Doug Ritter's recommendations and reviews for my first 2 PLB purchases, I'll probably look for his advice then too.
Second FWIW, I have a pet peeve about ham radio, why isn't it easier and more accessible to use? It requires a license to use frequencies, which I accept (KE7PWW) - but the handset form factors, programming, intricacies of antenna design etc etc, all scream for far more experience than the typical lay person can or should muster. Yet the absolute usefulness of having a ham radio and the license and nuts to use it is there - you can communicate with others in times of emergency when other means go down. Ordinarily I would look for the development of some future smartphone app that communicates from a phone over ham frequencies, much like smart phones communicating over wireless instead of cell frequencies. Something that simplifies the process of locating available routers in your area. I'd pay for that. I'd even pop a special antenna onto my phone to make those 'calls' over ham frequencies. As it is though, ham radio is most accessible mainly to folks with pocket protectors and a level of technical experience that challenges the likes of me. Anyway, like I say, its just a peeve...
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#224370 - 05/26/11 01:58 PM
Re: Search for hiking WA state trooper, used SPOT
[Re: Lono]
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Stranger
Registered: 05/07/11
Posts: 4
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I've followed this story closely. From my understanding:
1. he felt he was gonna be in trouble due to lost tent, wet bag,horrid weather, etc. 2. he hit the 911 on his brand new SPOT (with brand new batteries) 3. woke up the next morning, SPOT was dead 4. he assumed SPOT didn't work (no helicopters in area + bad weather, etc.) 5. he then made the decision to hoof it as fast as possible to his known destination.
This is a very experienced guy, SF trained, fit and intelligent. Sounds to me like a good use of SPOT, but he didn't truly beleive it had worked. He thought another couple nights in a wet sleeping bag, in a blizzard, etc would do him in. At least pride didn't kill him, as we have seen in other situations. Glad it ended well.
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#224378 - 05/26/11 05:24 PM
Re: Search for hiking WA state trooper, used SPOT
[Re: Susan]
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Addict
Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 418
Loc: St. Petersburg, Florida
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So, this brings up the question of HOW to signal in poor weather and poor visibility conditions.
As has been said before, you need to prepare for the worst possible conditions, not the best possible conditions.
Sue Although I still carry the regular tools (whistle, mirror, etc.) the Laser Flare has fast become my go-to tool for being found, especially by aircraft. Doug reviewed the laser flare and his testing indicated that it could be seen by aircraft far further than the aircraft could be seen by a person. My experience (only a dozen or so times at this writing) is that if I can see the helicopter he can see the flare. Even in minimum weather the flare is visible any time you can see the aircraft. Even with radio communication, it makes being picked up MUCH easier. Smoke is popped only when they are close and have seen you without help. It also makes life much easier for the rescuer if he or she knows what to look for. Your Plan (flight, float or hiking) should include the types of signalling devices you have, much the better to find you. Respectfully, Jerry
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