What's good for 9-year-olds is a different subject as far as I'm concerned.

I snowboard regularly in Tahoe. From my observation, there's no shortage of firewood at any of the resorts I have visited (about 10), even in the dead of winter. It should be possible to make a fire from a live, or preferably a dead standing, redwood tree. There are plenty.

My gear while I'm riding includes at least a firestarter, 100 feet of 550 paracord, a whistle, a pocket knife and a small flashlight. I don't bring along a trash bag because I figure the tech of my shells will cancel out the usefulness of the trash bag. Maybe I'll consider it though because a trash bag basically weighs nothing.

You might be glad to have a trash bag to give to someone else or improve a shelter.

I hike alone frequently and where I go in winter is quite limited in terms of fire-sustaining materials. I could build a grassfire but it would be on its way quickly.

I think in terms of injury and needing to survive without full mobility or body function. Such injuries might preclude travelling far enough to get wood for a fire or being able to construct much of a shelter.

So my gear set for hiking has materials so I can insulate myself and roll up into a large poncho while setting out my rescue beacon and hunter orange materials.

I still have fire starting stuff (3 ways) because it's good to have options and it doesn't weight much. But the injury-while-solo scenario for me suggests fire starting isn't necessarily the primary thing to concentrate on.

"It Depends."

"What's good for 9-year-olds is a different subject as far as I'm concerned.

I snowboard regularly in Tahoe. From my observation, there's no shortage of firewood at any of the resorts I have visited (about 10), even in the dead of winter. It should be possible to make a fire from a live, or preferably a dead standing, redwood tree. There are plenty.

My gear while I'm riding includes at least a firestarter, 100 feet of 550 paracord, a whistle, a pocket knife and a small flashlight. I don't bring along a trash bag because I figure the tech of my snowboard shell will cancel out the usefulness of the trash bag. Maybe I'll consider it though because a trash bag basically weighs nothing. [/quote]

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Without shelter, you won't be building a fire in many cases.

Wait till you get stuck in a whiteout on Tinkers Knob with 100 mile an hour plus winds and mixed snow and rain.

Or ride off the backside of Alpine into
powder so deep you can't walk through it without skis with skins or snow shoes.

Many years both these things happen to people.
If they are smart, they build a shelter and signal for searchers. Sometimes they can build a fire, most can't.

I do remember a pair of snowmobilers that managed a fire
by soaking their underwear in gas and using that for a
starter.

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You will have a long walk to start a fire with Redwood Trees,
say across the central valley.

I'm not questioning the need for shelter. Nobody on this thread is as far as I recall. In contrast, some here are questioning the need for fire. That's the issue.

I know many people here are binary thinkers, and that's good sometimes. However, here's not the place. Shelter is necessary most times. Fire is necessary sometimes. Both fire and shelter are necessary sometimes. It's not a binary solution.

Regarding Tahoe, whatever you want to call the trees in Tahoe, there are lots of them. It may require higher skill to start a fire with them in the winter, but it would be possible. It's a different situation than having no fuel at all.

Thanks all! I love these debates! The reminders I'm taking from this thread are, in no particular order (binary thinking!):

1. To take a shelter I can count on.

I. To not count on being able to make a fire.

A. The dress appropriately for all possible weather conditions.

And, as every good Scout knows, to always plan ahead and think safety first.

I think there is one other important lesson. If the weather looks formidable, either snowy or rainy, etc. just throw in a stove of some sort - fire problems are solved.

Dependable stoves can be obtained at whatever price you wish to pay, ranging from do it yourself Pepsi can stoves (cost is mere pennies) up to units costing $200 plus. All work well ad will accomplish the basics. As a backpacker, I am concerned about weight. None of my stoves, with fuel, weigh more than about eight ounces.

Before I used stoves, as an impoverished college student I got pretty good at building campfires in marginal conditions. That skill is now rusty, because I more typically use a stove, even in good weather. Stoves are more convenient, safer, and generally are better for the environment.

I built my last campfire about six years ago. If I build another, it is a pretty good bet that I am in trouble.

I built my last campfire yesterday and I wasn't in trouble, and if you bring along some bacon'n'bugers and a grill you could have really tasty meal (sure beats an MRE)
Baked tatties taste better than boiled.

It certainly takes a little more effort than firing up a gas stove though. Splitting and chopping washed up tree branches with a big knife and preparing feather sticks is hard work.

I Dont know whats going on in the big picture of things there Am_Fear. But did you take that picture after the wake of a beaverpocolypse?

Exactly. Even stranded on an ice floe ( http://www.equipped.org/blog/?p=101 ) you can use your firesteel alone as signaling device at night when helicopters with night vision equipment are looking for you.
It's not just firestarter, it's also another light emitting bateryless device in your arsenal.