In a Land that knows Alcohol,& For many Millenium at that,I would think one wouldn't venture far without some,besides how would one read the survival manual,written in Welsh without a decent dose of Single Malt in the first place?I haven't tried it but,I'll bet biscuits(crackers) with marmite will burn for quite some time,& Probably Very hot,as well!:)

It doesn't matter what else you carry, why would you not carry a source of fire??? You wouldn't even notice the weight difference between carrying it and not carrying it.

"Most likely survival situations"... do you mind if I laugh just a little? No? Then may I just grin?

Getting into a survival situation is because you miscalculated somewhere, made a mistake and multiplied it, or from pure bad luck. You're never thinking, "Today is a good day to get myself into trouble", are you? Or do you plan your personal disasters so you know precisely what gear to have on hand?

Fire isn't just heat, fire is signaling. So you fall in an area that has nothing to offer but grass and rocks, and you've dropped your fancy cell phone into the same rock crevice your broken foot is caught in. You told both the wife and the girlfriend when you would be back, so they both call the authorities when you don't show up. People are looking for you.

You find some dry grass and twist it together and make a knot. You hear that heavy whump-whump-whump of chopper. So you set your grass knot afire with the lighter you brought along accidentally. A helicopter crew with night-vision ability can see that fire from more than a mile away. Another hiker might see a fire where there isn't supposed to be a fire.

Neither your bivy, your water bottle or your broken cell phone will get you out of that bad spot, but a fire might.

Dying of exposure seems like a pretty silly way to die just because you didn't feel the need to carry a small piece of kit.

We've had quite a few hikers here in the U.S. who like to travel light. Some of them are dead.

"Miscalculation is a nasty word."

Sue

In your kit, leaving out something as lightweight and small as firemaking materials is just plain stupid IMHO. You don't think you'll need it? Well, that describes EVERYTHING in my survival kit. I never expect to need ANY of it. If I actually need it someday, that means I screwed up or fell prey to some accident or unpredicatable circumstance.

I don't understand the argument. I think the OP was trolling. This is not an either/or situation. Given the size and weight penalty of carrying a pack of matches, mini lighter or a ferro rod, there's no justification for not carrying one or more fire-starting devices.

As for the lack of suitable materials for sustaining a fire in Wales, I have to admit to no firsthand experience. But I did find this BBC article on an ongoing forest fire in Wales, in which there appeared to be no lack of burnable material.

Even if there were no dry wood, a large pile of grass would still make a great signal fire, albeit short lived.

Not trolling, just looking to provoke some discussion. The forest fire you refer to is on dry ground in woodland. No proiblem starting a fire there, but there are still lots of places when it is wetter and more desolate where a fire would be very tricky.

I just wanted to bring across the point that sometimes a firestarter isn't as useful as shelter and while everyone carries firestarters in their PSK or edc, shelter is rarer.

I don't suggest the ounce or 2 for a firestarter isn't worth it - but it doesn't replace the need for shelter.

Thanks for the contributions guys and gals

Fire and shelter go together like ham and eggs (or fish and chips). Frequently you cannot sustain a fire unless you have reasonable shelter.

However, I have far more frequently encountered suitable natural shelters, ready for occupancy, than I have found nice campfires -leaving aside those conflagrations to which I was responding in order to extinguish.

The better natural shelters are far superior to any tent or even most cabins.

No I am talking about an enviroment in which substaining a fire is not possible because fuel for sustaining a fire is either absent or unusable - as in too wet to burn.

I agree. For example, the Tahoe Region had a big snow year.
50 FEET of snow in some areas.
Wood may be meters under snow. We teach the fourth graders
a survival class each year, and they are instructed to always
bring a trash bag and a whistle in their coat pockets
whenever skiing or hiking. Those items do some good in deep
snow, high wind conditions for a 9 year old. A lighter or
such can be a distraction from really getting shelter and taking care of oneself. Not to mention the possibility
of misuse of knives, lighters etc. by the immature ones in the
group.

That being said, I have a ferro rod on my key ring and my 9 year old has both a pocket knife and bic lighter in his daypack.

For areas that do not have wood fuel, items such as a Esbit stove and Temperd 9 hour candles can come in great use. When building a Snow only based shelter they provide heat inside to not only warm you up but to melt the ceiling and when put out refreeze the ceiling to a tougher ice barrier to support the snow more.

I agree completely. I also routinely carry about 650 grams (almost 1.5 pounds) of emergency bivouac shelter virtually anytime I go off the asphalt. If I have a daypack or similar with me, the shelter goes with me.