Pete,

Ask whoever invited you to give you a copy of the merit badge pamphlet for Emergency Preparedness. Alternatively, buy a copy at your nearest Scout shop. A reading of the parts you are to teach, and a scan of the other sections will help you to have a better idea of what is expected of your part of the program. Note that earning the First Aid merit badge is a prerequisite to completing the merit badge in Emergency Preparedness.

From your description of the invitation, it sounds as if you are being asked to lend outside expertise limited to the climbing section of this merit badge class to supplement the program provided by the actual counselor for this merit badge.

Feel free to PM me if I can be of any help.

Good luck,

John

What is the BSA interpretation of "pre-requisite"?

I volunteer with a Youth Group (Saint John Ambulance of Canada) that has "Proficiencies", which are roughly equivalent to the Merit Badge program. (If the youth member obtains 12 proficiencies, with at least one from each of 7 categories, they get the Grand Prior's Award.)

On the Labour Day weekend, we ran a 3-day course to teach two proficiencies for 5 of our members. (We were hoping for more members, but my policy is not to cancel these events if I don't have to.) One of the proficiencies, the Basic Rescuer I (Search and Rescue) proficiency, has a "prerequisite" of Wilderness First Aid (WFA).

Now, I'm a St. John Ambulance WFA Instructor, and I saw nothing in the course requirements that built on the WFA course. Only one of the 5 students had previously completed the WFA course, but we taught the proficiency anyway; I figured I would run a WFA course in the fall (which we did in October) and sign them off after they had completed that course. Our Area Admin officer got very upset when she found out about this, and insisted that "prerequisite" meant we couldn't teach the proficiency unless they had taken the WFA course first. (This struck me as ridiculous, btw.)

As it turned out, only one of the 4 students who needed the WFA course was able to take it in October.

I submitted the paperwork for the two cadets that I felt had qualified for the award, but we have not yet received a response.

Coming from an academic background, my understanding of "prerequisite" means "this is knowledge that you must have in order to understand the course material"; for example, you can't take Advanced Statistics unless you have taken Introductory Statistics (but the professor can waive the prerequisite if he feels your understanding of Introductory Stats is sufficient).

The SJA Proficiency guidelines seem to interpret it as "this is material that we think you should know, even though it's got nothing to do with the actual listed requirements". In other words, it's not intended as a prerequisite, but as one of the course requirements in itself. IMO, this is a misuse of the word "prerequisite".

You say that "earning the First Aid merit badge is a prerequisite to completing the merit badge in Emergency Preparedness". Does this mean you need the First Aid Merit Badge before you can take the EP training, or before the paperwork for the EP MB can be submitted?

Before you can work on the merit badge with an EP merit badge instructor you need to have the first aid merit badge done. Usually this is not a problem since the First Aid merit badge is what many scouts earn first or soon after advancing far eough to start earning merit badges.

Aardwolfe,

The Emergency Preparedness merit badge (hereinafter EPMB) entails nine categories of requirements, of which the first listed happens to be earning the First Aid merit badge (hereinafter FAMB). A scout has one year in which to complete all the requirements of a merit badge. The FAMB can be earned at any time before the EPMB; or alternatively, earning the FAMB within one year of starting the EPMB should also satisfy that requirement of the EPMB (that assumes the consent of the merit badge counselor for EPMB).

The most common approach is to earn the FAMB before starting the EPMB, however many scouts also take both merit badges concurrently. In the latter case, the counsellor for EPMB will not sign the "Application For Merit Badge" (blue card) as completed until the scout evidences completion of the FAMB. Taking the merit badge classes in reverse order would not seem common. However, I see no reason why it could not be done that way and still meet all the requirements.

John

John,

I believe you are correct, but it is up to the Emergency Preparedness Merit Badge Councilor to decide if he/she will allow that.

Man, I've been trying to resist open commenting on this thread, but EPMB practices mash a lot of my buttons...

I have the hots for this particular merit badge and feel that it is so much more to the point than Lifesaving that Lifesaving should be moved to an alternate category and Emerg Prep made a stand-alone Eagle-required badge. Look at the total skill sets of both badges and then ask "What is the likelyhood that Scout X will ever need any of these skills in life" for each MB - then answer is a resounding "almost certainly" for EPMB and almost "nil" for Lifesaving.

If the badge is properly trained for, it is a rare 13-14 year old who can honestly accomplish it. Unfortunately, in my neck of the woods, it is an even rarer Merit Badge Councilor who 1) trains it properly 2) is capable of training it properly. One of my rants is that this MB cannot possibly be earned in a week at summer camp - someone is being dishonest.

And the Councilor MUST be a grizzled veteran who has actually experienced/lived the subject matter AND walks-the-talk all the time. While that certainly means that many folks here would be qualified IMHO, it also disqualifies the vast majority of the population, including, sadly, most adult leaders in BSA. Frankly, I'm a little weak on a few of the scenarios in terms of first-hand experience - this is one MB where a team of councilors could do a far better job (sounds like Pete will be working with some folks who have reached that conclusion)

It takes at least a year (4 seasons) for anyone I work with to earn this MB, but when they are finished, they REALLY know it. I don't hold to the "must finish within X time" on this one for that reason, and no one at District or Council objects to that.

You can instantly spot any of my EPMB "graduates" in a group of Scouts at our local camp - they really stick out.

Eh, rant off - I need to finish my second cup of coffee before I post anymore.

How did y'all finish out the fire season? Been out camping/hiking in or near any of the burn areas? I've found mental time lapse "photography" of bad burn area to be fascinating - walking a burn area over a course of several years (20+ in some cases) is fascinating to me as various flora re-colonize and various fauna decline and flourish along with the changing flora. Your kids have an opportunity to learn some really cool stuff if they are interested.

Good to hear from you.

Tom

Tom,

As always, it's great to hear from you. I also appreciate your concurrence. As for your rant, I'm afraid you're preaching to the choir, and not just to me, but probably to many forumites.

I'm in total agreement with your idea of making EP an MB required for Eagle. The skills and knowledge developed in it are much more likely to used than those of Lifesaving.

Your EPMB class sounds much better than any others of which I have heard. Frankly, I'm not so sure I wouldn't benefit significantly from taking it! It sounds like an outstanding program. Do you get much attrition due to the length of the course? I've never run an MB class that long.

As an aside, my 13 year old son went on his first dear hunt this year. My prerequisite to that was his successful completion of the MBs for Orienteering, Wilderness Survival, and Emergency Preparedness (He just advanced to to the BSA rank of Life 3 weeks ago.) . That was my way directing and timing his developmentn not to mention making sure he could take care of himself if he were somehow lost alone. The camping and hunt itself were very enjoyable. Unfortunately the warm weather at the time of the hunt in our deer-hunting zone kept the deer at much higher altitudes, much of which was nearly inaccessable or outside of our zone and therefore not legal to hunt.

I also tried a second trip to our deer hunting zone at the end of our season since we had a weather forecast of cooling. But the weatherman lied. Oh well my 10 year old son and I still had a good camping and hunting experience. Early in the hunt when we were making camp 8500' up in the Sierras, my son learned why one should not play around a creek filled by snow runoff in the evening on a remote camping trip. He also learned about preparedness since his only footwear had become wet. Last time I'll ever fail to inspect his and my wife's packing! After dismal hunting results at the upper elevations of our zone, we gave up on the deer and went rabbit hunting in the lower elevations, a much more successful endeavor.

Fortunately the fires in my area began to subside shortly after my post regarding them. Coincidentally Our OA Lodge held its 70th annual Desert Caravan right in the middle of a burn area. However it was at a large county campground which had served as a base camp for the firefighters working in that area. Thus the immediate campground was clean rather than ash-laden. The ground cover in the burnt area had not yet begun to regenerate. Speaking of fauna, we initially used an FRS radio channel for communication among elements of 2 related troops. Then we discovered that a party of successful quail hunters nearby were discussing their bags. So we switched channels for scouting communications. OTOH, the temptation to eavesdrop was overwhelming, so I now have a new area to hunt for quail.

We saw a lot more rejuvenation of the forest in another area which had burned last year. Our Cub Scout pack assisted the USFS in a replanting project. The redevelopment of the local flora and fauna is a real education. We do try to show the kids how that works.

[Rant on]

Although our fires were devastating to many people, the forests themselves will sustain a net benefit from the clearance of the diseased, dead, and simply excess trees, not to mention the impenetrable congestion of brush. It would appear that nature is curing the preservationism inflicted on our wild lands. Due to the zealous suppression of natural fires, and the curtailment of artificial means of thinning, vegetation has become overly thick in many areas. The excessive forestation and congestion of brush has severly reduced the ability of the land to support wildlife. Thus natural fires, as from lightening (with their concommitant rainfall), which tend to burn more frequently and cooler, thin the excess vegetation and result in more brouse, and other available food resulting in a significant increase in wildlife populations. Artificial fires, as from arsonists, or even accidents in overly thick brushy/treed, dry areas tend to burn much hotter, thereby resulting in more severe fires eliminating everyting in their path. Human intervention to prevent erosion in those situations is necessary. After a while the effects are similar to areas burnt in natural fires with increased open areeas and wildlife populations.

One of our long-favorite areas has been the Providence Mountains in the Mojave Desert. Due to the altitude, temperatures are moderate. Previously ranchers grazed their cattle there supported by artificial watering sources. Naturally those watering devices also supported abundant wildlife. Ranchers also built roads. Quail Unlimited used those roads to build and service watering devices for quail and other small creatures. A few years ago, environmentalist secured the enactment of the Desert Protection Act (DPA). It placed the general area in the Mojave National Preserve (MNP). Under the DPA, the cattle graze no more, and the roads are curtailed and/or closed. Watering devices fall into disrepair and can no longer be accessed or fixed. Surprise, surprise: the wildlife populations are falling. Previously the area enjoyed the benign neglect of the BLM. Now the area is administered by the National Park Service. It is hostile to commercial activities such as ranching, and barely civil to hunting. Nonetheless, individual rangers may still be quite gracious and downright helpful to hunters. I suspect that the NPS is actually rather schisophrenic re hunting in the MNP. In any case wildlife is dwindling. The NPS is suspicious of/hostile to the mule deer since man introduced it to the area in the 1940s. I wonder when the NPS will start an extermination program for the mule deer in the MNP.

In the PR of Kalifornia, environmentalists have sponsored heavily Hollywood-supported propositions which prohibit the killing of mountain lions. In order for an individual mountain lion to be killed by man, the lion all but has to be given a due-process hearing first (I'm waiting for the day when the individual lion must be represented by counsel before any determination that he might be killed). Consequently the lions, which have never been a threatened species in the PRK, have greatly increased in population. Not so surprisingly, the threatened Desert Bighorn Sheep consequently have become truly endangered in some areas. Even the mule deer populations are being decimated by the mountain lions.

[End of rant]

Tom, I know you have no complicity in these problems, but you touched a tender spot. Sorry if I have used your post to vent re our forestry and PRK problems. Somehow it seemed apt. I hope you won't mind.

Best regards and God bless,

John

John,

Well, at least you made time to get the boys out - bravo. As for that spill into the stream - I call that sort of thing "experiential learning" <img src="images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Congrats on the Life rank! Our #2 son is hustling on his Eagle project... and on that note, I better sign off for now.

Tom

FYI, according to BSA policy, there is no time limit on completing a merit badge other than it must be complete prior to the scout's eighteenth birthday.

Also, commenting on Tom's and your's comments, most merit badges are an introduction into a given area (forestry, chemistry, theatre, etc.). The expectation for completing the requirements are relatively basic. I do not expect many if any of the scouts that earn Envirenmental Science MB from me to become expert level proficient and continue on with careers in the field. Rather, I concentrat on making sure they understand and appreciate the fundamental concepts behind the subject matter. I had a stats prof who let us pring all of the formulas to tests on a cheat sheet. He didn't want us to memorize then, instead he wanted to make sure we when and how to use them. I adopt this philosophy with my scouts. They may forget the definitions they are asked to know, such as niche, ecosystem, symbiotic, etc., but will have an appreciation and understanding of the living and non-living components at work interact when they observe a habitat.

With that beinmg said, I beleive there are a handfull of exceptions; specifically First Aid, Emergency Preparedness and Lifesaving (and Wilderness Survival somewhat). I beleive the knowledge and skills learned must be exacting and and testing rigerous. There is a high level of expecation on a person who says he has earned on of these badges and anything short comings could put lives in jeopordy, including the scouts.

I applaude Tom, Pete and others who take their role in teaching these skills seriously, as they should. There are many leaders unqualified to teach these badges. Unfortunately, that's an outgrowth of a volunteer organization. Some troops may just not have a skilled leader who can teach it properly. And BSA doesn't monitor such requirements closely. (Is he or she breathing? Sign them up!) For these badges I wish counsel or districts would pay more close attention and or help out and augment troop programs with outside help, as is being done here. I also agree that First Aid and Emergency Preparedness are cannot be started and completed at one week of summer camp. We don't even push them for camp. But then we are also fortunate enough to have contacts with local EMTs to assist with out programs. (I also know that Environmental Science cannot be effectively earned at summer camp, even if they bring there ecosystem bottle with them).

Thanks John, I do have that manual and will plan on rereading it before we reschedule the event. Pete

Bill;

My sentiments are similar to yours. As far as First Aid goes, there is no "First Aid" proficiency in Saint John Ambulance as we are a First Aid provider and therefore, all youth members are required to be trained to an appropriate level of FA. ("We Can Help" for the juniors; Emergency First Aid for Cadets; Standard First Aid with level C CPR for Crusaders and BTS1 - essentially, the Extended First Aid with an additional Home Health Care module - for adults.)

In Canada, I believe the Boy Scout First Aid merit badge MUST be taught by a qualified Saint John Ambulance (or equivalent) First Aid instructor, btw.

The beef I have with our Basic Rescuer I (Search & Rescue) proficiency requirements is that whoever wrote the requirements was not treating it as an "introduction" to the subject, which IMO it should be. The requirements are actually more rigorous than the NASAR 2-day Introduction to SAR course, which is (again, IMNSHO) ridiculous. They threatened to disallow the proficiency because 4 of the 5 students who took the training hadn't completed the Wilderness First Aid course *before* they took the SAR training.

Btw, I note that the BSA Merit Badge Requirements don't list the First Aid MB as a "pre-requisite" but as one of 9 requirements; and I didn't see anything indicating that those requirements be fulfilled in any particular order. I think this is as it should be - the requirements should state which knowledge and skills must be achieved, but they should not tell the instructor how to teach those skills.

I think whoever wrote the requirements for the Basic Rescuer Proficiency didn't understand the difference between a pre-requisite and a requirement.